Mayhems "Pastel Blue" Problem

[cz_mawa]

Hello everybody,

I understand that it is not best way of entering this forum with arguing about quality of some watercooling manufacturer and telling everybody about their lack of any response about that problem (and also about lack of any contact information), but I have been reading this forum for many years and until this time I never needed to write anything. But now I need some advice what to do with the problem I have.

To make it clear, I have been building watercooled computers for my customers for almost 10 years but I have never seen anything like this (or better said, I have never seen something like this after 3 weeks of use and with fluid from "respectable" manufacturer). I am not any newbie, I really know how it works and what should be done, so I am pretty sure this failure is not my mistake.

Watercooling setup constists of:
Aquaduct 720 XT mark IV
EK-PSC Black Nickel 13/10mm fittings
Tygon 13/10mm tubing
EK-Supremacy Full Nickel CPU Waterblock
Watercool GTX 690 Hole Edition VGA Waterblock
Three bottles of Mayhems Pastel Blue

Everything was bought NEW in the first half of October, and started four weeks ago. Everything was flushed with distilled water before mayhems stuff was put inside.
Everything worked OK for three weeks, 24/7 working. One evening last week the aquaduct started to show 325 degree Celsius (no, thats not typo) on the IN temperature senzor. But because everything looked ok (fluid was flowing OK, OUT temperature was OK, components showed normal temperature), I thought its just some random error, or maybe faulty temperature sensor.
PC was turned on over the night, and in the morning, when we came to computer, it was shut down, fluid wasn?t blue anymore, it was clear like water, and all blue "stuff" clogged everything, blocks, hoses, flow meter, aquaduct, pump...

You can see pictures here (3x 2MB)
http://www.jscomputers.cz/files/temp...121_100741.jpg
http://www.jscomputers.cz/files/temp...121_100801.jpg
http://www.jscomputers.cz/files/temp...121_101441.jpg

And video here (40MB)
http://www.jscomputers.cz/files/temp/Mayhems/mpbb.mp4

All this happened in about 10 hours of time. The blue "vaseline" does not react with water, it does not dissolve, the only way I know how to clean everything is mechanically with cotton wool. This can be done with both waterblocks, but I cannot dissasemble aquaduct, we would loose warranty.

Therefore my question is - does anybody know how to get rid of this inside aquaduct ? Acid ? Alcohol ? Hot water ? Cold water ? In my life I have seen MANY loops with problems with fluids, but NEVER anything like this "plastic" in 3 weeks old system. The aquaduct is completely dead now, pump is clogged, not working, flow sensor is not working, temperature sensors are dead too (showing random numbers).

Of course I have tried to contact Mayhems, but contact informations on their web pages are "modest" - there is only some contact form, but no mail, icq, skype or phone number. Nothing. Therefore I obtained email to owner of the company (at least that I was told) and I have sent question about this situation on Wednesday both through their contact form on web pages and to the email address I received. I did not recieve any response from them until now.

Here is copy of the text I have sent:

"Hello,

at the beginning of October we purchased 3 litres of Mayhems Pastel ?Blue? with some other products (Aqua Computer Aquaduct 720 XT Mark IV, Tygon hose, EK-Supremacy Full Copper, Watercool GTX 690 Waterblock, EK-PSC fittings). The system was started at the beginning of November, both waterblocks, hoses and Aquaduct were cleaned with destilled water before putting the Mayhems coolant in it and all components were brand new.
Yesterday, after 3 weeks of use, the aquaduct started to show some strange temperatures of IN temperature senzor (OUT senzor was OK) but we thought its just some mistake, coolant was flowing in system correctly and everything seemed OK. Now I know that the coolant started to clog the temperature senzor and so it reads insane temperatures. The computer was turned on over the night and in the morning the system looks like on the pictures attached to this email ? the blue coolant was no more blue, it was clear. The blue color clogged everything, both cpu and vga blocks, complete aquaduct, hoses, everything. Computer was turned off, overheated.
We tried to clean the mess with destilled water, but with no luck, the blue ?vaseline? does not peel off, the only way of cleaning is mechanically with cotton wool (see the third picture). Sadly it is not possible to disassemble the aquaduct itself, because of the warranty. Therefore we expect from you:

a) Tell us how to clean the aquaduct inside without disassembling it, so how to dissolve this blue mess inside it. Should we use glykol ? Acid ? Hot ? Cold ? You are the manufacturer of this fluid, so I think you should know how to eliminate it.
b) If there is no non-mechanical way of cleaning inside of Aquaduct, we expect from you to buy us a new piece of Aquaduct, or if you wish, we can dissasemble this Aquaduct (and void warranty) and clean inside manually, but in that case we expect from you that if there will be any faulty parts inside this aquaduct in the two years warranty period (until October 2014), you will pay these spare parts for us."

Thanks for any help.

[BeepBeep2]

IMHO; First, Mayhem's pastel/aurora fluid is a joke. His "premium" sparkly/bright fluids have nothing to do with functionality, only show.

Secondly, (again, IMHO), he is unprofessional. He is an Englishman that does not type in anything close to proper English and he flaunts a signature around forums talking about "watching out for trolls".

Third, he used to flaunt his dyes and (clear/colored) fluids as ones that would not clog your system like the competitors' fluids...but then he came out with sparkly glittery fluids that first off were incompatible with many parts due to viscocity and otherwise the particles would settle over time in a system that was not running, and only tested them on a limited number of products and showcased the results in a confusing manner.

I think he has a disclaimer on the fluids too - if you used them with anything he didn't test, don't be expecting to get a refund or that he would pay for anything his WC fluids ruined.

[schoolslave]

IMHO; First, Mayhem's pastel/aurora fluid is a joke. His "premium" sparkly/bright fluids have nothing to do with functionality, only show.

Secondly, (again, IMHO), he is unprofessional. He is an Englishman that does not type in anything close to proper English and he flaunts a signature around forums talking about "watching out for trolls".

Third, he used to flaunt his dyes and (clear/colored) fluids as ones that would not clog your system like the competitors' fluids...but then he came out with sparkly glittery fluids that first off were incompatible with many parts due to viscocity and otherwise the particles would settle over time in a system that was not running, and only tested them on a limited number of products and showcased the results in a confusing manner.

I think he has a disclaimer on the fluids too - if you used them with anything he didn't test, don't be expecting to get a refund or that he would pay for anything his WC fluids ruined.

This 100%.
While I can usually look past some grammatical errors/mistakes, when you represent a "company" with such English it is highly unprofessional and somewhat repulsive.

[Buckeye]

WoW that's pretty bad looking

Did the new bottles of fluid have anything settled on the bottom ?

[cz_mawa]

IMHO; First, Mayhem's pastel/aurora fluid is a joke. His "premium" sparkly/bright fluids have nothing to do with functionality, only show.

I agree with that with Aurora - thats really something not good for productive systems. But "pastel" fluids should be ok, i didnt found any informations on mayhems web page that pastel stuff shouldnt be used long term http://www.mayhems.co.uk/front/pastel.html#.ULJmd4bX9s8
But imho in their specs there should not be written "3 Year in system life span" but "3 weeks in system life span"

[cz_mawa]

WoW that's pretty bad looking

Did the new bottles of fluid have anything settled on the bottom ?

the bottles were all ok, nothing left in them settled. the fluid worked well three weeks in the system. then i 10 or 12 hours, finished.

[stren]

This 100%.
While I can usually look past some grammatical errors/mistakes, when you represent a "company" with such English it is highly unprofessional and somewhat repulsive.

Clearly he's highly dyslexic. When you're a one man company then that's fair enough although obviously it will affect sales as not everyone takes you seriously. Being dyslexic doesn't mean that you're not intelligent. At some point though as you grow, someone should take over the PR side who can either spell or use spellcheck.

Yes from what I've heard it should only have been the Aurora fluids that drop out suddenly like that. Personally I still only use any form of dye on loops that I'm ok with being ruined afterwards. Otherwise colored tube and/or Light Port fittings.

[Conumdrum]

Wow, some hate here. And your still waiting for a reply. He's a one man company and could be on vacation. You should wait. And If I remember right, it's not his fault. In his disclaimers and never added to his web page. It should be. Expecting replacement etc never ever happens, you should know that by now building systems the last 10 years.

He say's you can have issues, use it and best of luck pretty much.

It's a nitch product, and something to PLAY with. Not for the faint of heart or ones who have to build systems and maintain them for other people.

Distilled water and a biocide. It seems to work?

I use distilled water and a biocide, and I take care of my stuff.

[eskamobob1]

@OP
Mayhem is on vacation currently... also, what was in your loop with the pastel blue? there are certain biocides that will severely mess with his products as they will cause the nano suspension particles to cling to each other... a glycol or slightly acidic solution would work the best... you can also use warm soap water... run that into the rad system and seal it... cause some movement within the rad (i just shake it tbh) and the paste should disolve... you can also post here if you have more questions... we will be more then happy to help you out some more

Clearly he's highly dyslexic. When you're a one man company then that's fair enough although obviously it will affect sales as not everyone takes you seriously. Being dyslexic doesn't mean that you're not intelligent. At some point though as you grow, someone should take over the PR side who can either spell or use spellcheck.

Yes from what I've heard it should only have been the Aurora fluids that drop out suddenly like that. Personally I still only use any form of dye on loops that I'm ok with being ruined afterwards. Otherwise colored tube and/or Light Port fittings.

this ^... i personaly dont mind his grammar, but i do recognize it can be an issue for some... im not sure if he is dyslexic or not... he also openly advertises that his so called "sparkly" coolant is soely for show and not long term use as it will steely out in the nooks and cranies if left for long enough

[cz_mawa]

Wow, some hate here. And your still waiting for a reply. He's a one man company and could be on vacation. You should wait. And If I remember right, it's not his fault. In his disclaimers and never added to his web page. It should be. Expecting replacement etc never ever happens, you should know that by now building systems the last 10 years.

well, if one product destroys another product, than the manufacturer of the first product is responsible for the damage, no mater what he wrote ANYWHERE. this is how it works in europe and this is one of many reasons, why europe prices are much higher than in the US

and in this situation i think it is pretty sure that its the fault of the the fluid...

on the other hand, i really dont need him to pay me new aquaduct, it is extreme solution of the problem. i would much better like to know what should i put inside to clean it. if i would be an , i would want to pay me all the time i have spend cleaning it, new tubes, new fluid etc. i dont mind, i will pay it to my customer myself, good experience not to use that fluid never ever again. but i am really not going to pay new aquaduct, because its 600EUR...

[cz_mawa]

@OP
Mayhem is on vacation currently... also, what was in your loop with the pastel blue? there are certain biocides that will severely mess with his products as they will cause the nano suspension particles to cling to each other... a glycol or slightly acidic solution would work the best... you can also use warm soap water... run that into the rad system and seal it... cause some movement within the rad (i just shake it tbh) and the paste should disolve... you can also post here if you have more questions... we will be more then happy to help you out some more

to be honest, i too work almost alone, and when i am on vacation, i write it on my web page, so everybody knows. i dont see anything on his web page, which is not much professional.

as I wrote before, there was nothing else in the loop with the pastel fluid. all components were brand new and flushed with distilled water before the pastel stuff were put inside.

but thanks for help, i will try that hot soap water and we will see...

[Rogue Warrior]

Hrrrrm, seems like you might be ONE unfortunate customer. My system runs Mayhem's Aurora Concentrate. I have to add 500ml of water per bottle to make it right(which is the point of the concentrate). I have been using this for almost a year. It looks great, mind you the way my computer sits you, don't always see it functioning. Aurora Concentrate does have the fancy sparkling Whatchya-ma-call-its in it, so after a while the sparklies do fall out of suspension, and do build up in areas such as the GPU waterblocks and where the tubing(clear) meets the barbs, my reservoir is in an area that allows me to disconnect it quickly(Koolance Disconnects) and give it a quick shake. I have always had quick responses from Mayhem's regarding any questions I have had, even with a mis-labelled bottle of concentrate. I even do not have the top of the line components in my system.

My system was flushed with Distilled water PRIOR to operation, and even received a FULL flush and water/concentrate change after a faulty GPU waterblock change, and have had no problems since, although Mayhem's can not be ruled out 100%, neither can one of the other components be ruled out 100% as a problem. Good Luck!

[Sparky]

Your tone in your message certainly isn't going to help anything. Being belligerent from the get go ("I expect you to pay for everything") is not starting off on good terms with anyone. Had you started off first by stating the problem and asking how to clean it up first would have been far better. Then if it didn't clean up proceed with asking (nicely!) about repairs/replacement/etc.

I see people doing this "ultimatum" stuff from the start all the time, then they blame CS for being not very helpful. Think about it if you were in their shoes - would you be more willing to help out someone who had a problem and asked about it, or the person who bit your head off right away? And more often than not, the instantly aggressive ones are the ones who did something wrong that triggered it all in the first place. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but just in general.

Sometimes, you DO have to get forceful (been there, done that) but you should never start off being so aggressive.

Try sugar first before resorting to the bbq

Just my 2 cents.

[cz_mawa]

Your tone in your message certainly isn't going to help anything. Being belligerent from the get go ("I expect you to pay for everything") is not starting off on good terms with anyone. Had you started off first by stating the problem and asking how to clean it up first would have been far better. Then if it didn't clean up proceed with asking (nicely!) about repairs/replacement/etc.

I see people doing this "ultimatum" stuff from the start all the time, then they blame CS for being not very helpful. Think about it if you were in their shoes - would you be more willing to help out someone who had a problem and asked about it, or the person who bit your head off right away? And more often than not, the instantly aggressive ones are the ones who did something wrong that triggered it all in the first place. I'm not saying this is the case with you, but just in general.

Sometimes, you DO have to get forceful (been there, done that) but you should never start off being so aggressive.

Try sugar first before resorting to the bbq

Just my 2 cents.

Maybe you have not read seaction "a" of the quoted email. I think i have very clearly said there, that I need information how to get rid of that crap inside aquaduct, and IN THE CASE IT IS NOT POSSIBLE i expect from them to pay repair/exchange. I really dont know what is wrong on asking for that...or should I beg them ?

[BeepBeep2]

I agree with that with Aurora - thats really something not good for productive systems. But "pastel" fluids should be ok, i didnt found any informations on mayhems web page that pastel stuff shouldnt be used long term http://www.mayhems.co.uk/front/pastel.html#.ULJmd4bX9s8
But imho in their specs there should not be written "3 Year in system life span" but "3 weeks in system life span"

How thick is the stuff? Milky? Near-water?

Here is what he says on his website:

Mayhems new pastel range incorporates many differing technologies into one product, from dyes to nano fluids and of course a little Mayhems magic. With a system working life of about two years,...

and

Properties & Benefits
...
3 Year in system life span.

The Nano particles are 40nm allowing for it to pass through any current water block with ease and this is turn will help prevent any blocking of the water cooling blocks.

...

Wow, some hate here. And your still waiting for a reply. He's a one man company and could be on vacation. You should wait. And If I remember right, it's not his fault. In his disclaimers and never added to his web page. It should be. Expecting replacement etc never ever happens, you should know that by now building systems the last 10 years.

He say's you can have issues, use it and best of luck pretty much.

It's a nitch product, and something to PLAY with. Not for the faint of heart or ones who have to build systems and maintain them for other people.

Distilled water and a biocide. It seems to work?

I use distilled water and a biocide, and I take care of my stuff.

Hate? No. Truth? Maybe, maybe not. Dislike? Probably.

It's rather simple. If you want to look professional then you should probably dot your I's and cross your T's, probably stick to your claims and not try to go two directions at the same time...for example:
...("My dyes/fluids won't clog your system like others...then 6 months later: "...now buy some Mayhem's Pastel/Aurora/Chameleon with oodles and oodles of little bits that are suspended in it!") and then not be oblivious to the reason why some people start out on the wrong foot with you.

He isn't stupid, I think he is a very smart man, except, nobody can run a successful business by writing poorly and contradicting themselves.

[Sparky]

I didn't miss it.

Here is what you stated (bolding is mine):

Therefore we expect from you:

a) Tell us how to clean the aquaduct inside without disassembling it, so how to dissolve this blue mess inside it. Should we use glykol ? Acid ? Hot ? Cold ? You are the manufacturer of this fluid, so I think you should know how to eliminate it.

That comes across as rather demanding and snide. Asking about using acid just adds to that. You and I both know you wouldn't soak the thing in acid. It would have been better to state the issue as you did, then ask something like "Please tell me how best to clean this?" Poses the same question without being mean about it.

Also, immediately after that including option b) where you basically demand they buy you a new one doesn't help. Start off kindly first, without making demands. Yes, make it clear what the problem is and ask for resolution, but do so tactfully. You'll get much better results if you do

I'm not trying to be mean here. I'm simply pointing out some things that can cause you more issues. I've dealt with a lot of different companies and RMAs in my line of work, and trust me I've had to play hard ball with some of them where I basically had to demand they fix the stupid issue because they were dancing around it, but that is never the way to start off.

[Conumdrum]

Amen Sparky.

[eskamobob1]

the acid was a very reasonable question. I dont think he is talking about using acetic acid or anything like that, but instead something along the lines of a lemon juice solution (something that is very commonly used to clean WC systems)

@OP
how did the warm soap water work? and have you tried an alcohol solution yet?

[mlwood37]

Hi there

Thank you for posting on here .

If you read the bottle it says our web address on the bottles and its not hard to see. All so on our web site there is a support email and again its not hard to see. Not at one point in your time have you contacted us and asked us to work with you and help you out directly. If you had we would have responded. So with that out the way if you would like to resolve any issues you can do via my email on my web site and we will work with you.

Our web site is www.mayhems.co.uk

Do not use Mayhems Pastel with Primochill tubing or Tygon tubing as Mayhems Pastel seems to react with it changing the colour of the tubing to a greenish colour. This is not the fault of Primochill, Tygon or Mayhems it is just a incompatibility issue. Pastel works fine with XSPC, Thermochill, Clear Flex, Masterclear and a few other brands.

Link -> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/m...sers-club/0_20

Looking at your pics i was sent a question though a re-seller about this in which i answered the question to the re-seller how ever you never contacted us directly.

When the trolls stop destroying forums then maybe company's will come back and work with users. until that happens support will only be given though forums were more respect is given or via email.

[BeepBeep2]

Hello everybody,

I understand that it is not best way of entering this forum with arguing about quality of some watercooling manufacturer and telling everybody about their lack of any response about that problem (and also about lack of any contact information), but I have been reading this forum for many years and until this time I never needed to write anything. But now I need some advice what to do with the problem I have.

To make it clear, I have been building watercooled computers for my customers for almost 10 years but I have never seen anything like this (or better said, I have never seen something like this after 3 weeks of use and with fluid from "respectable" manufacturer). I am not any newbie, I really know how it works and what should be done, so I am pretty sure this failure is not my mistake.
...
[cut]...
...
Of course I have tried to contact Mayhems, but contact informations on their web pages are "modest" - there is only some contact form, but no mail, icq, skype or phone number. Nothing. Therefore I obtained email to owner of the company (at least that I was told) and I have sent question about this situation on Wednesday both through their contact form on web pages and to the email address I received. I did not recieve any response from them until now.

Here is copy of the text I have sent:
...
[snip]

Hi there

Thank you for posting on here .

If you read the bottle it says our web address on the bottles and its not hard to see. All so on our web site there is a support email and again its not hard to see. Not at one point in your time have you contacted us and asked us to work with you and help you out directly. If you had we would have responded. So with that out the way if you would like to resolve any issues you can do via my email on my web site and we will work with you.

Our web site is www.mayhems.co.uk

Mr. Wood, I really do apologize, but is it very hard to read? While the OP wasn't very nice about this to start with (though he's been waiting a long time for your email response!!!) telling him read the bottle to find the clearly marked web address for your website makes him look extremely stupid. At least, it seems you assume he has the intelligence of a 4 year old.

The OP already contacted you through the page on YOUR website and also an email that was thought to be YOURS. NOT a resellers.
It looks exactly how the OP explained it:

Link -> http://www.overclock.net/t/1286896/m...sers-club/0_20

Looking at your pics i was sent a question though a re-seller about this in which i answered the question to the re-seller how ever you never contacted us directly.

If you looked at his pictures, then you would know that they were pictures of the gunk in his system. How did you come to the conclusion from those pictures that he contacted a reseller instead of you? Is there something magical you're seeing that nobody else is?

When the trolls stop destroying forums then maybe company's will come back and work with users. until that happens support will only be given though forums were more respect is given or via email.

Nobody is trolling anything, you're just talking nonsense. What trolls are destroying forums? Trolls like me? Anybody that didn't like EK's circles? People that make legitimate points and/or argue/state their true opinions?

I apologize for my rude tone but now this is just getting ridiculous.

[mlwood37]

Ill check with my partner after to see if he got the email but normally they go direct to me. Unless it was done when i was on my hols in which case he would have received an auto response saying i am on my holiday and please contact me after a certain date.

I wont be going into any details on here about it more than if i get a email i will respond. If how ever the email has not come though and i don't see it im sorry but im not a mind reader.

If the op would like to resend the email then we can start going though the process of helping him out.

If any one doesn't like that i do have dyslexia well not my problem really.

[the_dope_chaud]

If any one doesn't like that i do have dyslexia well not my problem really.

At what point do professionalism and company image come in the picture? I completely understand, and I dont want to bash but you need to think abour image and the impressions you give off, as a company and not as an individual.

And in 2012, you can forget that "the costumer is always right." Remember when stores and buisnesses didnt ask much, and sent you home with a new, exchanged product, just to keep a costumer.
Now, with some companies, you basically have to prove it was their fault/faulty product, or your entitled to nothing. Progress.... I do realise they have to do this because of people, but meh... people...

[paulbagz]

mlwood37; might be worth contacting some of your re-sellers to get that Tygon/Primochill notification put up (as PPCS certaintly doesn't have it).

-PB

[Waterlogged]

You know, you guys should consider yoursleves lucky to even to be able to get Mayhem Dyes anymore. There was a point in Mick's life where he wound up on the losing end of an altercation (not of his making) with a lorry (semi truck) and was pretty messed up. . .so I think you all should cut the guy a break on his dyslexia and grammar.

OP, I agree with Sparky on the tone of your "email". I don't know of a single company that would respond kindly (if at all) to that kind of request for help. Give Mayhem (mlwood37) a chance to do right by you, he is one of a small handful of standup vendors out there that I know of.

[cz_mawa]

Ill check with my partner after to see if he got the email but normally they go direct to me. Unless it was done when i was on my hols in which case he would have received an auto response saying i am on my holiday and please contact me after a certain date.

I wont be going into any details on here about it more than if i get a email i will respond. If how ever the email has not come though and i don't see it im sorry but im not a mind reader.

If the op would like to resend the email then we can start going though the process of helping him out.

If any one doesn't like that i do have dyslexia well not my problem really.

Hello mlwood37,

I have sent a carbon copy of the email addressed to you to the seller where I bought the aquaduct and the fluid. They recieved it OK and they can confirm that the mail to your private mailbox was sent last wednesday. We can speak more about it over PM if you wish. I understand that maybe the email didnt reached you, maybe you have it in spam somewhere, but for these reasons I think that you should have some RELIABLE contact informations available on your web pages. And no, email is not realiable contact at all. I have resent the email once again few minutes ago, but I think that if you didnt recieved it first time, it wont come to you even now. On the other hand I am not sure why you need it any more, because I have posted exact copy of that mail in my first post.