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Thread: KGB - Kepler BIOS Editor/Unlocker

  1. #76
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    Awesome.
    Msi 660Ti PE OC are running at 1402MHz core in Kombuster on std cooler, 1500mhz should be easy on water now..
    Measured voltage under load is 1,275 with multimeter, at +40 mV in afterburner, std volt shows 1,25volt on mm with 0% powerlimit.

    +100mV (max) and 0% powerlimit gives 1,32 under load.
    +100mV and 150% powerlimit gives 1,35v load.


  2. #77
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    I think i found a bug.

    KGB 0.5 ignores the kgb.cfg file. I have set the Max Power Target between 100 and 180 in CFG file, but the KGB.exe always sets the Max Power Value to 160.
    It also ignores Fan settings in CFG file and the Voltage Table.

    KGB 0.4 looks exactly the same as well.

    I have also tried different BIOS that i downloaded from Internet, and i get same results, CFG settings are being ignored.

    Am i missing specific commands that i need to use with kgb.exe to force it to use CFG file??



    Last edited by KGB7; 12-04-2012 at 10:46 PM.
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  3. #78
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    @ KGB7 .... Yes ........ easiest thing to do is edit & save the CFG file then just copy it over to the KGB folder then when u run KGB it will run with the CFG parameters.

    I set my power target to 200%/400W & 200% was available in afterburner although the card only pulled about 135TDP max so maybe the cards have limits.
    Last edited by C-N; 12-05-2012 at 12:35 PM. Reason: Correction


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  4. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post
    I think i found a bug.

    KGB 0.5 ignores the kgb.cfg file. I have set the Max Power Target between 100 and 180 in CFG file, but the KGB.exe always sets the Max Power Value to 160.
    It also ignores Fan settings in CFG file and the Voltage Table.

    KGB 0.4 looks exactly the same as well.

    I have also tried different BIOS that i downloaded from Internet, and i get same results, CFG settings are being ignored.

    Am i missing specific commands that i need to use with kgb.exe to force it to use CFG file??




    I found the bug. It was you j/k

    I looked at all three bios files and they all are stock, you never unlocked them!!!\

    YOU have to supply the parameter unlock, to unlock your bios. Like this:

    kgb gk104.rom unlock

    If you do not tell it to unlock it just prints out the current values in your bios.

    If you tell it to unlock, it will save the new values (i.e. from kgb.cfg) in your bios then print out the new values in the bios

    Last edited by CrazyNutz; 12-05-2012 at 07:26 AM.
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  5. #80
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    Folks,
    I've been playing all night modding an ASUS GTX 660 and I don't have good news. It seems like the GK106 GPU (or this specific card) has a hard limit of 115% on the Power Target, which is 115x1.15 = 132.5 W exactly. Now it makes sense why only 110% is the maximum allowed by default. I tried everything with BIOSes from multiple vendors, etc... believe me. Details to follow later on. Would be nice to have somebody else with a GTX660 to confirm my findings.

  6. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by trayton View Post
    Folks,
    I've been playing all night modding an ASUS GTX 660 and I don't have good news. It seems like the GK106 GPU (or this specific card) has a hard limit of 115% on the Power Target, which is 115x1.15 = 132.5 W exactly. Now it makes sense why only 110% is the maximum allowed by default. I tried everything with BIOSes from multiple vendors, etc... believe me. Details to follow later on. Would be nice to have somebody else with a GTX660 to confirm my findings.
    So are you saying you cannot set > %115 power target via software? (i.e. afterburner, or precision)
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  7. #82
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    Stupid me. I did forget to use unlock command. I dont even remember using it in the first place the last time.

    Edit;

    Moded the BIOS with unlock command and everything is working perfect. Now you can shoot me.
    Last edited by KGB7; 12-05-2012 at 04:20 PM.
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  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by KGB7 View Post


    Stupid me. I did forget to use unlock command. I dont even remember using in the first place the last time.

    Edit;

    Moded the BIOS with unlock command and everything is working perfect. Now you can shoot me.
    Glad to hear it's working
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  9. #84
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    The setting is available in AfterBurner/Precision there and the scale reflects the unlocked max target (150). But even if you're set it above 115 (eg. 140 or 150) you still see maximum of 115 when benchmarking and throttling of Vcore and frequency occurs if the card tries to go beyond that. I also tried modifying the default target/board power but same effect. Power doesn't go higher than that magical limit (132.5). I think this rules out the option that the issue is with afterburner or precision.
    Btw, the Afterburner can't set the voltage properly for this card. Precision is the way to go. But since throttling is the main issue here, it is better start with a normal (1.15) or even lower voltage and see how far you can increase the clock before thottling occurs.
    Regarding the voltage tables, I found for GTX660 the first table sets the maximum voltage the GPU can throttle to or what you can set manually in Precision and the second table sets the base voltage for 3D. Base voltage is not a strict setting, the card might use a lower voltage in 3D.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNutz View Post
    So are you saying you cannot set > %115 power target via software? (i.e. afterburner, or precision)
    Last edited by trayton; 12-05-2012 at 01:26 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by trayton View Post
    The setting is available in AfterBurner/Precision there and the scale reflects the unlocked max target (150). But even if you're set it above 115 (eg. 140 or 150) you still see maximum of 115 when benchmarking and throttling of Vcore and frequency occurs if the card tries to go beyond that. I also tried modifying the default target/board power but same effect. Power doesn't go higher than that magical limit (132.5). I think this rules out the option that the issue is with afterburner or precision.
    Btw, the Afterburner can't set the voltage properly for this card. Precision is the way to go. But since throttling is the main issue here, it is better start with a normal (1.15) or even lower voltage and see how far you can increase the clock before thottling occurs.
    Regarding the voltage tables, I found for GTX660 the first table sets the maximum voltage the GPU can throttle to or what you can set manually in Precision and the second table sets the base voltage for 3D. Base voltage is not a strict setting, the card might use a lower voltage in 3D.
    On my GTX660ti it never reaches the maximum power limit either. It will throttle down too, However this is due to temps getting high. Are you sure it's not your temps causing you to throttle, this is very common.

    Try to keep your temps in the low 60's or less, and see if that stops your throttling.
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    thanks for the tip. will try pushing clocks with the fan on max then. however, ASUS DCU is best in class so it hovers around 60-62 under load currently with Auto fan. I'm still used to the previous generation - it was normal to see the cards go up to 90 with the reference blower fan.

    it rarely reaches 115% for me too. I only saw that when I tried with 1.212V. Currently with a fixed 1.15V and with a clock in 1150-1200 range the power hovers between 100 and 110 with an average of 105. as an overclocker, I'm a bit frustrated that I can't use max voltage and check the clock limits that way as I don't think that a temp like 70 should be an issue for the GPU die.

    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNutz View Post
    On my GTX660ti it never reaches the maximum power limit either. It will throttle down too, However this is due to temps getting high. Are you sure it's not your temps causing you to throttle, this is very common.

    Try to keep your temps in the low 60's or less, and see if that stops your throttling.
    Last edited by trayton; 12-05-2012 at 02:04 PM.

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by trayton View Post
    The setting is available in AfterBurner/Precision there and the scale reflects the unlocked max target (150). But even if you're set it above 115 (eg. 140 or 150) you still see maximum of 115 when benchmarking and throttling of Vcore and frequency occurs if the card tries to go beyond that. I also tried modifying the default target/board power but same effect. Power doesn't go higher than that magical limit (132.5). I think this rules out the option that the issue is with afterburner or precision.
    Btw, the Afterburner can't set the voltage properly for this card. Precision is the way to go. But since throttling is the main issue here, it is better start with a normal (1.15) or even lower voltage and see how far you can increase the clock before thottling occurs.
    Regarding the voltage tables, I found for GTX660 the first table sets the maximum voltage the GPU can throttle to or what you can set manually in Precision and the second table sets the base voltage for 3D. Base voltage is not a strict setting, the card might use a lower voltage in 3D.

    Same problem here with msi 660 ti pe oc. Have modded the bios for 300% and 1,18 volt, the slider goes to 300% but the limit you talk about is also present here, about 130.. Volt can be set with Afterburner, just not all versions, the latest don't work...
    Next step will just be hardmodding the card, pretty easy on this card.

    I have also tried on water with 10C load, so temp isn't a problem ( It's cold in Denmark atm)
    Last edited by noxon; 12-06-2012 at 03:21 AM.


  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxon View Post
    Same problem here with msi 660 ti pe oc. Have modded the bios for 300% and 1,18 volt, the slider goes to 300% but the limit you talk about is also present here, about 130.. Volt can be set with Afterburner, just not all versions, the latest don't work...
    Next step will just be hardmodding the card, pretty easy on this card.

    I have also tried on water with 10C load, so temp isn't a problem ( It's cold in Denmark atm)
    Interesting. I'll do some investigating. There are other sections in the bios that have to do with power limits
    Last edited by CrazyNutz; 12-06-2012 at 06:34 AM.
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  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by trayton View Post
    thanks for the tip. will try pushing clocks with the fan on max then. however, ASUS DCU is best in class so it hovers around 60-62 under load currently with Auto fan. I'm still used to the previous generation - it was normal to see the cards go up to 90 with the reference blower fan.

    it rarely reaches 115% for me too. I only saw that when I tried with 1.212V. Currently with a fixed 1.15V and with a clock in 1150-1200 range the power hovers between 100 and 110 with an average of 105. as an overclocker, I'm a bit frustrated that I can't use max voltage and check the clock limits that way as I don't think that a temp like 70 should be an issue for the GPU die.
    I'm on to something. Send me your bios, I want to manually mod a section. I found what I think may be the limiting factor. If it works for you, i'll add changes to KGB.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNutz View Post
    I'm on to something. Send me your bios, I want to manually mod a section. I found what I think may be the limiting factor. If it works for you, i'll add changes to KGB.
    I can also confirm temp is definetely not the issue. I can make the card stay below 50 degrees and same problem. Looks like the GTX660 reviews are true and there isn't much juice in the GK106 above 1200MHz. See below my results.

    1.100 V - 1137MHz, +126 stable, static clock
    1.150 V - 1202MHz, +150 stable, static clock
    1.175 V - 1254Mhz, +170 hang/error, small throttling/downlock sometimes
    1.200 V - 1267Mhz, +180 hang/error, need to force voltage level to 1.2V otherwise it's starts on 1.18 which creates instability, large and frequent throttling/downlock/downvoltage

    Reviews worth reading about GTX660 overclocking in practice and about power target:
    http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/...ocking_review/
    http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...-review-5.html

    My original BIOS: https://www.dropbox.com/s/dxexxdbiwm...5_original.zip
    Further BIOSes are available here: http://www.techpowerup.com/vgabios

    I hope you can have a crack on it CrazyNut but I'm afraid this power limit is in the GPU itself in the form of current sensing or something similar. Moreover, if you think about TDP this limit puts vendors into a better position as they don't need prepare/design the board in a way to handle extra extra loads due to overclocking as it was in the old times. "Without this, board partners would have one hell of a time designing their cards so they wouldn?t overheat, pull too much power from the PWM or overload a PSU?s rails."

    ***
    Regarding the BIOS, I found the section 7f28 > 7f70 very interesting where the power target is also defined. What I found here that the GTX660 is different from what I see in the BIOS of GTX670. Looks like the GTX660 has a more simple setting defined here since the second part is mostly zeros. My only hope was the MSI GTX660 Hawk which has a special BIOS (plus a higher board power by default) and this section was similar to the GTX670. However, copying over this section into my BIOS caused Power Target not available to set in Precision/Afterburner. In the end, I tried using the full original 660 Hawk BIOS but even with that I hit the TDP limit. What's also interesting is that it seems like there are two sets of power target settings in 660Hawk/670 BIOS. The KGB tool finds this second pair. So, what is the first pair then?


    7f28 > 7f70 section (gk106)

    ASUS GTX660
    01 02 40 19 01 00 80 32 02 00 50 3A 02 00 02 03 00 00 58 1B 00 00 01 02 9C E0 00 00 38 C1 01 00 24 EE 01 00 04 05 00 00 58 1B 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 00 00 1C

    MSI GTX660 Hawk
    04 02 70 94 00 00 98 34 01 00 74 53 01 00 01 01 00 00 58 1B 00 00 01 03 40 19 01 00 40 0D 03 00 E8 6E 03 00 02 03 00 00 58 1B 00 00 01 03 9C E0 00 00 98 AB 02 00 40 0D 03 00 04 05 00 00 58 1B 00 00 01 01 00 10

    Same section in Gigabyte GTX670 OC Windforce 3X
    04 02 30 75 00 00 F0 49 02 00 40 0D 03 00 01 01 00 00 00 00 00 00 01 03 A0 86 01 00 90 D0 03 00 B0 1E 04 00 02 03 00 00 88 13 00 00 01 03 A0 86 01 00 40 0D 03 00 E8 6E 03 00 04 05 00 00 88 13 00 00 01 01 00 10

    Values:
    70 94 00 = 38000 (hawk660)
    30 75 00 = 30000 (windforce3x670)
    40 19 01 = 72000 (asus660)

    98 34 01 = 79000 (hawk660)
    f0 49 02 = 150000 (windforce3x670)
    80 32 02 = 144000 (asus660)

    74 53 01 = 86900 (hawk660)
    40 0d 03 = 200000 (windforce3x670)
    50 3a 02 = 146000 (asus660)

    01 01 (hawk660)
    01 01 (windforce3x670)
    02 03 (asus660)

    01 03 hawk (hawk660)
    01 03 hawk (windforce3x670)
    01 02 asus (asus660)

    40 19 01 = 72000 (hawk660)
    a0 86 01 = 100000 (windforce3x670)
    9c e0 00 = 57500 (asus660)

    Power Target
    40 0d 03 = 200000 *** (hawk660)
    90 d0 03 = 250000 *** (windforce3x670)
    38 c1 01 = 115000 *** (asus660)

    Max Power Target
    e8 6e 03 = 225000 *** (hawk660)
    b0 1e 04 = 270000 *** (windforce3x670)
    24 ee 01 = 126500 *** (asus660)


    02 03 (hawk660)
    02 03 (windforce3x670)
    04 05 (asus660)

    58 1b = 7000 (hawk660)
    88 13 = 5000 (windforce3x670)
    58 1b = 7000 (asus660)

    01 03 (hawk660)
    01 03 (windforce3x670)
    00 00 (asus660)

    9c e0 00 = 57500 (hawk660)
    a0 86 01 = 100000 (windforce3x670)
    00 00 00 (asus660)

    ??? another power target setting ???
    98 ab 02 = 175000 *** (hawk660)
    40 0d 03 = 200000 *** (windforce3x670)
    00 00 00 (asus660)

    ??? another power target setting ???
    40 0d 03 = 200000 *** (hawk660)
    e8 6e 03 = 225000 *** (windforce3x670)
    00 00 00 (asus660)


    ...

    end
    01 01 00 10 (hawk)
    01 01 00 10 (windforce3x670)
    01 00 00 1c (asus)
    Last edited by trayton; 12-06-2012 at 02:24 PM.

  16. #91
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    guys are you reading those volts with software or multimeter cauz my Galaxy SOC GTX680 says 1,17ish and its real 1,19
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    software here...
    more juice can't hurt as long as you have proper cooling to dissipate that additional heat you should be fine. and the numbers are relative, right? so if I need to raise the voltage to gain stability and/or reach higher clocks anyway, then it really doesn't matter if it's 1.17 or 1.19 - it's just simply the next available step on the voltage adjustment scale in software. of course, it is a different story if you want to hard mod the Vcore.
    Last edited by trayton; 12-06-2012 at 03:02 PM.

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    Trayton I'll work on your bios.

    I think the way it works is there is a global board power limit (gpu + mem combined), and then there is the GPU power limit. I've seen two current sense resistors on the boards, one near the
    pcie power input (likely for the total board power sense), and one closer to the GPU (gpu power sense).

    So my thought is that the two power tables in the bios top set is for total/global board power, and the bottom set is for just GPU. Right now KGB just changes the bottom set.


    BTW: The KGB offsets are offset from the bios start offset:

    Your bios start is 0x0600
    Your power offset is 0x7f48 from the bios start offset down

    so if you open you bios in your hex editor and you want to find your power offset you have to do:
    0x0600 + 0x7f48 = 0x8548


    EDIT: Try this one. Also please note if its unstable, back your clocks down until it's stable. Upping the voltage, and power can make the card boost past the stable point.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/19ylvbv71k...0660%20mod.zip

    Let me know.
    Last edited by CrazyNutz; 12-06-2012 at 07:40 PM.
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    CrazyNutz


    I have a request that i hope you can implement in to exe and cfg file.

    What i would like to see, is be ability to modifie fan speed based on Temp. For us to create and set our own fan speed based on temp. Lets say at 50C fan speed will be at 40%. At 56C, fan speed is at 45%, at 70C fan speed will be at 65%, etc etc. So we can wright our own settings in the CFG file as we need to based on our needs and cooling.

    This will eliminate the need to run a 3rd party software to control fan speed manually.

    Thanks.


    Another question that i have; is it possible to lock the Core Clock at specific Mhz when GPU Core is under full load, so it doesnt Boost up and down on its own? I dont benchmark, but when i play the only game BF3, the Core Clock constantly goes up and down. On older Architecture/GPUs, the core clock was always constant, and with new cards, its all over the place. Even with moded Bios, the best i see in BF3, the core speed around 1060Mhz, give or take a dozen Mhz.


    Thanks again mate.
    Last edited by KGB7; 12-06-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by noxon View Post
    Awesome.
    Msi 660Ti PE OC are running at 1402MHz core in Kombuster on std cooler, 1500mhz should be easy on water now..
    Measured voltage under load is 1,275 with multimeter, at +40 mV in afterburner, std volt shows 1,25volt on mm with 0% powerlimit.

    +100mV (max) and 0% powerlimit gives 1,32 under load.
    +100mV and 150% powerlimit gives 1,35v load.
    definetely a proof for overvolting... lucky you! no need to hard mod the Vcore
    http://www.tomshardware.com/news/MSI...ion,18013.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNutz View Post
    Trayton I'll work on your bios.

    EDIT: Try this one. Also please note if its unstable, back your clocks down until it's stable. Upping the voltage, and power can make the card boost past the stable point.
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/19ylvbv71k...0660%20mod.zip

    Let me know.
    CrazyNut,

    thanks for the custom mod! I tried it and there is no difference. works the same way. I might got the wrong end of the stick originally as playing more with different voltage tables/clocks I see that it's not the power limit we see in monitoring software is the real limit - that hovers around 105-110 and rarely reaches 115. the time when the downclock/voltage drop happens doesn't coincide with the time of reaching the power limit. there is either another power limit like you're saying what we don't see and/or it's down to the logic of boosting. I guess the boost logic is somehow defined in relation to tdp/voltage steps/clock steps in the BIOS as I can see voltages appear multiple times in the BIOS, like 54 80 12 (1.212V). I also found that the voltage table 2 affecting the scale of boosting, its swing behaviour and also the default 3D clock. so there must some complete profiles in the BIOS.

    In the end, I realized that a lot more settings come into play if you want to achieve overlock over 1200Mhz which opened up a whole new playground to me. previously I just used the standard output of kgb which sets both voltage tables the same and I haven't been tweaking the voltage further in software. after trying many combinations I was able to find that one single sweet spot and also the dos and dont's. I'll provide the details later but my point is that boosting pretty much ruins the overclocking close the gpu limits since it's currently not possible to achieve the highest overclock without suffering from large swings - you can either have the highest boost with a high swing (1050-1300) or a lower boost clock with a small swing (1200-1250) which ensures better performance due to a higher minimal base clock. to get the max out of overlocking, it would be great if we could find a way to control the minimum clock somehow.

  22. #97
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyNutz View Post
    So my thought is that the two power tables in the bios top set is for total/global board power, and the bottom set is for just GPU. Right now KGB just changes the bottom set.
    I have to believe there is another power limit we don't know about currently. Let me explain why. I've been thinking about the K-Lock feautere of Precision which can lock the GPU to constant clock. When I apply the lock and raise the GPU to a high clock which I know is stable, the GPU starts downlocking while power shows 105-108%. Vcore is static. if we could eliminate this first that that would be great. However, K-Lock is not a preferred option on the long run since it's locking the clock for 2D as well and makes the GPU running on top speed at all times

  23. #98
    c[_]
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Alberta, Canada
    Posts
    20,374
    Quote Originally Posted by trayton View Post
    CrazyNut,

    thanks for the custom mod! I tried it and there is no difference. works the same way. I might got the wrong end of the stick originally as playing more with different voltage tables/clocks I see that it's not the power limit we see in monitoring software is the real limit - that hovers around 105-110 and rarely reaches 115. the time when the downclock/voltage drop happens doesn't coincide with the time of reaching the power limit. there is either another power limit like you're saying what we don't see and/or it's down to the logic of boosting. I guess the boost logic is somehow defined in relation to tdp/voltage steps/clock steps in the BIOS as I can see voltages appear multiple times in the BIOS, like 54 80 12 (1.212V). I also found that the voltage table 2 affecting the scale of boosting, its swing behaviour and also the default 3D clock. so there must some complete profiles in the BIOS.

    In the end, I realized that a lot more settings come into play if you want to achieve overlock over 1200Mhz which opened up a whole new playground to me. previously I just used the standard output of kgb which sets both voltage tables the same and I haven't been tweaking the voltage further in software. after trying many combinations I was able to find that one single sweet spot and also the dos and dont's. I'll provide the details later but my point is that boosting pretty much ruins the overclocking close the gpu limits since it's currently not possible to achieve the highest overclock without suffering from large swings - you can either have the highest boost with a high swing (1050-1300) or a lower boost clock with a small swing (1200-1250) which ensures better performance due to a higher minimal base clock. to get the max out of overlocking, it would be great if we could find a way to control the minimum clock somehow.
    Overclock using nvidia inspector and the performance level 2 setting.

    All along the watchtower the watchmen watch the eternal return.

  24. #99
    Xtreme Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    182
    Unfortunately my card cant handle a constant load at 1280Mhz, my PC crashes and freezes after 5min or so, even if i kept the temps in low 60C. So i had to flash stock bios back in to my card.

    1280Mhz is Boost speed that the only time i would see if i had several things running at the same time that would put constant load on the GPU. Playing BF3 and watching a movie at the same time would keep the card at constant 1280Mhz and cause my PC to crash. No driver error crash, no DirectX crash, just a black screen and everything would freeze.
    Asus Laptop

  25. #100
    Registered User
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Posts
    14
    Whooops! I managed to edit a wrong setting in the BIOS which made my PC not even reach POST. I believe this is a warning sign that I shouldn't modify things until I'm absolutely sure what it is... luckily, I was able to POST/boot after I changed it to a secondary video card and was able to reflash it.

    Quote Originally Posted by STEvil View Post
    Overclock using nvidia inspector and the performance level 2 setting.


    thanks for the tip! however, I lost on the GUI with all those profiles/unlocks/relocks, etc. it didn't make sense to me how to lock minimum clock but finally I found the solution on a forum which is very simple: command line!

    nvidiaInspector.exe -setBaseClockOffset:0,0,0 -setpowertarget:0,150 -setVoltageOffset:0,0,120000 -setGpuClock:0,2,1270 -forcepstate:0,2

    your clock will be locked to the value in red. still, downlocks can still happen but happens lot less times. with this setting I could see spikes in power to 120%, so forcepstate switch definietely helps breaking the 115% barrier.

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