Explosive stuff supplied by Koolance.

[Yoad]

Hello,

Let's begin with clarification, no, this isn't sales promotion for koolance item, rather the opposite.

Also, only the facts will be given to you about this story, i'm going to leave opinions aside, and let you judge for yourself.

Awhile ago, while checking sales and stuff in our forum sponsor FrozenCPU, i've found this neat gadget that supposed to check your flow and report it in fan RPMS, please note back then there wasn't any reference for 'adapter' required to do this in the store listing, while actually not bothered by that, the possible usage for something to warn if the flow goes to 0, if pump failes etc, was very appealing so i've shed the 20 something $'s with no doubts.

Then it was sent and arrived rather fast, thanks FZCPU, with it came 'quick install' guide, which explains this piece is directional and for proper GPM to RPM conversion, an adapter needed, surely enough this was annoying, but didn't bother me because even if it reported wrong flow, so long as it was above 0, it could function the way i've intended it for... So i've installed it, plugged it into CPU fan connector, since i've found some user review mentioning this is how he did this and it works fine, and turned the PC, the first than that happend was an astonishing sparkfest, and perhaps it ignited, but it was so surprising that i've neglected attention to little details, then huge boom and it exploded to two large pieces.

Then obviously, when i've calmed some, and checked for possible serious issues caused by this fenomena, i've approached koolance with this, i'm going to do some copy / paste from our convo, the important parts:

Hello,

Which Koolance parts do you have?

Regardless, your Koolance products are warranted for up to one year if you purchased from FrozenCPU.

Thanks,

Koolance Technical Support

On 10/25/2012 3:31 PM, Yoad wrote:

Earlier, after first putting the Koolance flow gage into the loop, i've turned the PC and the first thing that happens is huge boom, it exploaded, This was NOT warned in the tiny page that came with it

I'm going to try and find if this wrecked anything beyond repair and i'm expecting you to provide me with replacement item and if anything was damaged seriously then recompensate me for those too.

I've purchased this from the retailer FrozenCPU, which also doesn't note any warning for hazard, and how to use this thing.
-----------------------------------------------------------
The part SN FM17N, the circuit flooded by white glue substance simply exploaded and shot far from the case. There wasn't any warning about such thing in the store listing, neither with the supposebly quick install guide that came with it, While warranty probably applies, what about the mess it caused, the fact i've had to deal with coolant leaking in thc pc, and probably minor problems that it caused will be worse later, since this happend i've noticed serveral issues.

About part replacement i've sent messege to the vendor, but what's your position about this?

Koolance:

What was the pressure in the system (also, what pump are you using)? Do you have any pictures of the flow meter? What was the cable part of the flow meter plugged in to?

The RMA should be directly from us.

It's likely you didn't see a warning about an explosion
Thanks,
Koolance Technical Support

-------------

Another koolance message, they were waiting for pics:

Hello,

Still waiting on the pictures. I do see what you're saying now (I wasn't sure before), and it sounds very odd. Had someone asked if I've ever heard of anything like this, I would have said no way. The flow meter shouldn't have been connected to a CPU/motherboard fan header, unless it was through the ADT-FM03 adapter first. Even so, I don't think that would have cause an explosion.

Thanks,

Koolance Technical Support

----------------------------------------

Sent them some pics, and this is what they sent back

Hello,

Based on the pictures and video, it seems like too much current was supplied to the flow meter. As mentioned in the manual: "The flow meters should not be directly connected to high power outputs like 12VDC fan headers or similar controllers. If connected directly to a custom circuit, the intended current range is 50-100mA.".

The frequency adapter, required to multiply the flow meter impeller signal into RPMs, is optional, as without it, the flow meter can still be used as a visual flow indicator.

Unfortunately, our warranty does not cover damage caused by misuse. We do not use the same connector on the flow meter as a native fan header uses.

Thanks,

Koolance Technical Support.

-------------------

Let me note that this quote they used wasn't nearly as bold, if even mentioned in their guide, since i've checked it before installing this part. Neither was it warned this could cause any harm, beside the fact it probably won't function.

The MB was harmed, i'm not sure if the surge this caused when it exploaded and seriously heated the CPU area didn't harm any other components, since from then the PC was acting weird, thankfuly most parts are under warranty so didn't have troubles with that, aside the fact it was troublesome enough i've had to deal with it. also thankfuly this was fresh loop and so the coolant was pristine, and an isolator so it didn't fry stuff. And it was in its leaks check stage so the case was opened, so the parts that flew apart, flew away from the PC rather than staying in there and perhaps igniting other parts.

The trouble with this part is the extreme danger that it could explode and do harm beyond repair by simple misues that isn't nearly as bold as it should be, and the fact they decided to blame me for this whole thing, deeming the case as warranty void due to what they call misues.

I'm not going to determine for you who's wrong... just wanted to share this experience with Koolance, their CS and mostly the fact that stuff they sell pose serious dangers, not to mention the fact that you discover after purchasing that you get incomplete item, and that to actually use it, you're going to need to pay at least what it cost you and then some, and if you don't, oh buddy, you're in for some explosive troubles.

Another thing that's worth to metion, Taking this story to these forums is rather against what i'd usually do, i've had faulty parts before, i've even had rude CS before with other brands and didn't go to the forums with that, but such impudence, yes thats an opinion and you're welcome to disagree, was beyond what i'm willing to tolerate and let pass like that.

Thanks for caring, if you're reached this far in this post you probably care some.

JJS.

PS.
Let me, and perhaps koolance as well, know what your opinion is about this.

[[SYF] Karma]

i think perhaps you should do some research before purchasing and fitting things you know nothing about.

product link


part way down the page youll see this

"A frequency circuit (sold separately) multiplies the RPM signal to allow it to be read by most fan tachometer headers (such as those found on ATX motherboards). This signal is intended to allow fan detection software (including BIOS) to enable the appropriate alarm or shutdown procedure if the flow meter impeller stops rotating. The "RPMs" represent approximate flow meter coolant in mL/min, and not revolutions."


and guess what, its the same on the Frozen Cpu page

Frozen CPU link

same info here too

"A frequency circuit (sold separately) multiplies the RPM signal to allow it to be read by most fan tachometer headers (such as those found on ATX motherboards). This signal is intended to allow fan detection software (including BIOS) to enable the appropriate alarm or shutdown procedure if the flow meter impeller stops rotating. The "RPMs" represent approximate flow meter coolant in mL/min, and not revolutions."

From the product manual

Frequency Adapter
An optional Koolance power adapter (ADT-FM03) can be used to multiply the flow meter impeller
signal. This allows most fan detection software, including many computer BIOS programs, to
see the flow meter tachometery as if it were a 12VDC fan RPM signal. The multiplied RPM
signal can allow 3rd-party software to log or enable an alarm event for the flow meter impeller.
With ADT-FM03, flow meter “RPMs” represent approximate coolant flow rate in mL/min, and not actual
revolutions. Be aware that 3rd-party software and BIOS programs must be configured properly if the flow
meter will be used to initiate a safety procedure.

it seems pretty clear to me, that when you look at that product on either FZCPU or Koolance sites, you need to buy said adapter for it to function as an electronic meter not just a visual water wheel so to speak.


whilst your rage at killing parts or what ever is justified, it is through no other means than your own lack of understanding / research.

Koolance and many other manufacturers make components that require extra parts to function correctly. the key here is for the user to know and understand what they are trying to achieve.

[Yoad]

Hello,


Perhaps it wasn't very clear, when this part was purchased the store listing did not in fact mention any adapter, only after i've brought this to frozen they changed the description.

Yet you are correct that one should not use things he dont know how to, but this should have been very simple device that does something very specific, and frankly if it was only not functioning properly without the adapter, while in itself rather annoying, and heck, even getting fried from the exccesive current, this wouldn't have reached these forums, and i'd probably blame me for buying something with so little description about it.

But, and this is the big problem, This thing exploaded, perhaps you do not understand the seriousness, Even koolance admit this is serious fault. Misuse, correct use, lets just assume that this unit was 'defective' in the way that it goes boom if more than speficic volt applied to it, and lets just assume an defective 'adapter' with its regulator not functioning properly was supplied to the hypothetic customer with the prior defective item, what do you suppose would happen in that situation? And if this is probable thing to happen if connected this way, dont you suppose at least some bold warning should be noted? Just like the fact this item won't work if connected against the current, Which noted in huge warning.


This is why i've brought this to the forums, Koolance admit something seriously wrong happened here, and after practically admitting their fault, they suddenly change their approach to 'your problem that you're stupid' if to sum.

Yes, i'm fairly enraged for how their CS treat things, which IMO is bad business but thats an opinion and did not belong in the previous post. I've tried to give you the facts.

Thank you,

JJs.

[[SYF] Karma]

anyone trying to use the unit seriously, would have put it with a tms200 and therefore not needed the adapter.

the koolance site clearly states you need the adapter, and always has. FZCPU may have updated afterwards but the koolance site would have always displayed it.

explosive or not, misuse will always see bad results.

its blatantly obvious that you misused the product after not understanding it properly. Whether the unit may or may not have been defective is a mute point, because you used it incorrectly causing a failure, no matter how spectacular it was.

you have only yourself to blame here.

they have every right to refuse helping you. It seems at first they admit a fault, but the key is here, is after you had supplied the photo's etc, they realise what youve done wrong in the setup and have therefore changed their tune.

it would be no different if you perhaps had some ram, lets say ddr3. now we all know it fits into the dimms a certain way. If you were to turn it around the wrong way and force it in, cooking the ram and motherboard, that would be misuse and no vendor would cover warranty on that.

that is exactly what you've done here. Put the wrong plug into the wrong connector, not knowing that it was a different plug through lack of your own research.

[Ozzfest05]

The picture appears to have a 2 pin connector. Cpu fan header has 4 pin and a regular fan header has 3.
The fourth pin on cpu header gives pwm.

Myself if you handed me this item without any research i would know enough to not attempt to plug into fan header.
No offense intended.

[Sparky]

1) That connector is definitely not a fan header connector
2) You went by what some review said and not by the product page or info

I don't intend to sound mean or anything, but this isn't Koolance's fault that it blew up.

[rge]

When I was researching flow meters a while back including koolance, it was clear Koolance and many others needed adapters, and I shop at frozencpu as well. Also performance pcs has exact same line about needing an adapter, and pretty sure frozencpu had same part about needing an adapter when you bought it, as they just copy/paste that description.

Regardless, it is user error. I dont think the Koolance product is dangerous, I think it might be dangerous for some people to water cool without doing any research or do diligence on proper use of products.

Try charging your car battery directly with 240V receptacle instead of ~14V charger/adaptor, pretty sure that will explode as well.

[[SYF] Karma]

i would like to see pictures of how you set it up and the damage

[st0ned]

Hey man I know companies can be real greedy bastards and refuse RMA for no logic reason.

Though I've to agree with Sparky... I've one of those Koolance flow meters and I couldn't believe what you wrote... How could you think connecting that connector to a normal Fan header would be OK... I took a picture:



The fan header pins even look larger then the ones on the Koolance connector, I mean come on I bet it even didn't enter well at first...

Taking the risk of stereotyping this sounds just like some funny lawsuits Americans have, suing companies for completely idiotic reasons... Like putting a cat in to the microwave to dry it. Even if the microwave doesn't explicitly says you can put alive animals there and expect them to live you have to deduct that by yourself.

Point here is that it should be obvious, just by looking, that it wasn't a good idea to connect the meter in to a normal fan header.

If I were you I would just assume my mistake, learn from it and assume the loss. Hey 20$ is just cheap, you could have just blowed something on the motherboard and that would be a lot more expensive.

[Yoad]

im gettin you guys, its true enough, it wasn't very clever connecting it like that, and yes i've expected it not to function properly, what you're missing is that there's not even one warning about this, and what i'm getting to is these guys are selling dangerous stuff, their description is at very best obscure as to how you should / shouldnt use it, and their CS has weird... moods? one moment they're "what the.. even if you did that and this, no way this would've happened" the next "you're doing it wrong, youre fault".

Kinda fishy wouldn't you agree?

i'm not trying to bash koolance, but while i've used this wrongly, i'll take that, its their item that went kaboom, folks, even if i'll super extra volt most other part that i've got in the PC, and i've tried that, worst case they'll get ruined and thats that.. If they go boom, its another story dont you agree with that? Unless it clearly warns "This goes boom if you do this and that"... is what i'm getting to. not to mention the fact their so impudent as to at least RMA this thing for the great inconvinience this has caused, even if its partly not their fault.


BTW, to the guy who mentioned that 'after' ive sent them some pics they changed their attitude, its wrong, they knew just what i've used this for prior to that... i'm suspecting that some higher tier intervined at that stage, but thats just me speculating.

Frankly this wouldn't even gotten to the forums if they just admit something went wrong, perhaps i'd have posted the pics to entertain you guys and let others know not to try that, but not more than that, RMA this part and be done with that... but trying to blame me for something they didn't even know that could happen with the items that they sell is just wrong.

To try and reach some conclusion, what i've been trying to get to since posting this is, there's this company, this is how they treat their customers, and this is what could happen if you use their items, be it due to misues, and perhaps even defects, as they clearly admit that the item i've recieved. In fact who even knows if it wouldn't have gone boom even if i've used their adapter? they claim it shouldn't have happend even in these circumstances.

and dont get me wrong, i'm not offended by your criticism, the opposite, i've known what you posted before that, misusing stuff potentially lead to issues, true enough. but these dangers should be clearly labelled boldly, especially when they're this serious.

Thanks.

JJS

[[SYF] Karma]

i honestly cant believe you are still trying to shift the blame onto a faulty part.

there is nothing wrong with their customer service. How many spastic blown up parts do you they have to deal with on a regular basis, i bet its a lot.

a lot of how they treat you comes down to how you treat them.

heres a great example from my own account

my initial contact:-
i have an RP-980bk here, from order xxxxx, serial xxxxx

the rear most pcb, has a dead solder for the molex power connection, the part number of this board appears to be CBD2 LOW REV 2.0

can you send me a replacement one to fit ?

Koolance
can you take a picture of the damaged part and send it to RMA@Koolance.com?
Date: 19 October 2011 Status: Received Request Author: Customer

Me:-
Here the pics, front and back

old image link showing front of pcb

old image link showing rear and the failed solder join


Koolance
We will ship a replacement control board today. No need to ship the entire unit back. Careful, installing the control board can be tricky, but it shouldn\'t be too difficult.



so here it is clearly an RMA, where a manufacturing fault caused the unit to not pump properly. They were even nice enough to simply send me the part and not have to ship the whole unit ( at a cost of ~$100 from Aus)

I have had many dealings with them like this, where they simply send me the replacement pump or whatever it may be, and allow me to transplant it, saving me time and money, especially when they somehow manage to ship them from thier office to me in Adelaide in under 5 days every time.



You will also find, that it only exploded because you used it wrong, thats like putting a 12v pump into a 240v outlet, things gonna go bang.
have you ever tried switching a 240v PSU into 120v mode, it goes bang, what do you expect. So you switch a psu and blow it up, does that make it manufacturers fault, NO.

They dont need to label anything, if you used it correctly it would not have exploded. Simple as that.

Posting this on a public forum does nothing to Koolance's image or reputation, and in this case has only make you look like an angry amateur who failed to research properly before delving into things not understood fully.


Furthermore, posting crap like this on a public forum in way to try and name and shame a company is disgraceful.

[MadHacker]

I remember reading about 1 guy got his nuts destroyed (for lack of better words) because he tried to stop a chainsaw with his genitals.
apparently now there is a warning on said chainsaw not to stop the rotating blade with genitals.
warning excessive? I think so.
but people will blame manufacturers for their obvious errors.

prime example McDonalds and hot coffee. now they have to label the cup as hot...
to me that is kinda obvious when you ask for a coffee. does the waning need to be written on the cup... apparently so....

[Sparky]

im gettin you guys, its true enough, it wasn't very clever connecting it like that, and yes i've expected it not to function properly, what you're missing is that there's not even one warning about this, and what i'm getting to is these guys are selling dangerous stuff, their description is at very best obscure as to how you should / shouldnt use it, and their CS has weird... moods? one moment they're "what the.. even if you did that and this, no way this would've happened" the next "you're doing it wrong, youre fault".

No, they aren't selling anything dangerous, at all. It is the nature of ALL electronics that they have a tendency to smoke, blow apart, or even catch fire when fed too high of voltage. Take a simple capacitor for example and feed a 6.3V cap with, say, 24V. It isn't going to be too happy. And even if the description is a little obscure, the sheer fact the connector is totally wrong should be enough. The description does mention the adapter unit.

Trust me, I've overvolted a lot of stuff to see what happens over the years lol.

[rge]

No, they aren't selling anything dangerous, at all. It is the nature of ALL electronics that they have a tendency to smoke, blow apart, or even catch fire when fed too high of voltage.

Exactly.

So OP which seems more practical:

Option 1) label all electrical components in the world that they are dangerous if supplied higher volt/current then rated at an enormous cost, so OP feels safer.

Or Option 2) OP agrees never again to try and build anything that requires electricity.

The needs and common sense ability of the billions, outweigh the needs of the one.

[Kenjiwing]

this thread is amazing.. no one takes responsibility for their own mistakes these days I swear

[bds71]

i think the big take-away from this is as follows:

Yoad: you're rightfully upset that your product blew up and could have potentially harmed not only your PC components, but possibly physically harmed you as well. you're also upset that there was no warning that this could happen, and that the customer support responses were a bit "terse."

first of all: the product only blew up because it was given 10 TIMES its max operating voltage. as others here have stated, that tends to happen when you do that.

as to why you did that, it still boggles the mind. it appears that the connecter was not intended for the fan header (as Koolance points out, is stated in the manual) - and not only that but should not normally "fit" a fan header. if anything, koolance should have a desire to fix this "capability" so it does not happen again - which would probably include a redesign and cost them a lot of money as a company. or you can accept the fact that you likely "forced" the plug into a connection that it was never meant to have in the first place. speaking of frivolous law-suits in the US - can everyone remember the McDonalds Coffee law suit? McDonald's now has to issue a warning on all coffee cups saying that "this product is HOT" because someone burned themself while trying to drive and drink coffee at the same time - and sued McD's. is that what you want Yoad? to issue a warning to NOT plug this product into a plug which it (a) doesn't fit, and (b) the instructions say not to plug it into? that would be like putting a warning label on coffee to tell people it's hot - rediculous.

lastly: your initial complaint to Koolance was that their (Koolance's product) caused your machine to "explode" and that they should reimburse you for the costs of any damaged parts. seriously? you said their part caused your PC to explode? i'm sad to say this, but their response is likely a typical response to that kind of accusation. i honestly couldn't say if i would have reacted differently in their place. you have to admit - that's a pretty bold statement on your part. and, to further demand that they re-coup your losses due to their faulty product? ballsy. probably not what i would have done, but ballsy - i'll give you that.

anyway, i wish you luck with getting your PC back up and running properly. and, i truly hope that you do not (after reading this) still hold a grudge with a company that is quite obviously not at fault. perhaps their response could have been more curt, but then again - you did blaim them for "exploding" your PC. (i still chuckle at the thought of reading that trouble ticket). perhaps - just this once - their response was warranted?

[Conumdrum]

I used a toaster as a thermos once. No RMA.

I plugged a 60hz $200 turntable into a 50 hz 120VAC converter from 220, the turntable went so fast it almost jumped off the table. (USA turntable used in Spain) Being stoned and amazed it was a blast with my friends. Ruined the speed circuit. No RMA. Ohh 1981 if you were wondering.

Stuff happens and I'm even amazed you posted such a foolish mistake and tried to drum up support.

Ruined a GTX 280 because I overtightened the WC block. Went into the garbage, went to Fry's, got another. My fault. Didn't even try to RMA,no matter if I could of got a replacement. My bad, my Karma.

As ESPN says, 'Comon Man'!

[NKrader]

Trust me, I've overvolted a lot of stuff to see what happens over the years lol.

yeah, the magic smoke escapes.. done this way too many times..

[Martinm210]

I screw up and fry stuff myself on a regular basis. I have killed multiple motherboards, processors, pumps, fan controllers and all sorts of other things. I understand the feeling when you release the magic blue smoke.. I don't always learn everything up front and I don't take all the right precautions. The difference is I accept the risk and consequences of taking shortcuts or experimenting with stuff I don't completely understand.

My 2c

[Vetalar]

well like _most_ electronic devices plug has 0.1 inch pin-to-pin distance. one could plug it into MB USB header or power led header... or even IDE/floppy connector... oh! there is also pin array on my good old creative SB live! 5.1 - may be plug it there?
i can't see any fault of koolance here... they stated to plug it ONLY in adapter and never to MB fan header. why don't one put it to wall AC plug - just to check "flow" in city electrical network?
every curious person have to remember one thing: if one tries smth. he doesn't absolutely sure - be ready to fail and consequences of _any_ kind. if one plays with electrical circuit - ready to fire, smoke and shock.

[Waterlogged]

Yoad, Go get some books or visit good tech websites on the subject that are in your native language and you'll learn why there is such a backlash to you in this topic...until then, please stop pretending you know how to build/work on computers and go get a dell or some other pre manufactured brand computer.

[bds71]

...go get a dell...

ouch - now that hurts....

[rehpyc]

prime example McDonalds and hot coffee. now they have to label the cup as hot...
to me that is kinda obvious when you ask for a coffee. does the waning need to be written on the cup... apparently so....

Hahaha.. as I was reading through the posts, I had this McDonalds example in my head the entire time. OP, you were careless in what you were doing. It's no different than people who put tubing on barbs w/o any protective measures to keep the tubing on and then want to blame others when it does and drowns their components. If you're going to get into water cooling, do thorough research and have a full understanding of everything you're doing before you do it, else you'll lose some expensive computer components.

[skorpien]

If I were Koolance, I'd have told you to go pound bricks from the get-go. You were very aggressive, accusatory, and downright impudent in your first message to them. You failed to provide them with sufficient information regarding your situation and expected reimbursement for everything in your PC that may have been damaged. Of course they'll change their tune when they find you're to blame! Hammers don't come with warnings against using them to bludgeon somebody to death, but do you see people getting up in arms because their loved ones were murdered with a hammer and seeking reimbursement from the manufacturer? Unbelievable!!!

[SonDa5]

If that part would have been installed correctly and then exploded I'm sure the situation would be viewed differently by Koolance CS. From what you have posted it clearly looks like the problem occurred because of improper installation.


Water cooling is fun and it isn't that hard to learn how to do but problems arise when parts are not installed properly.