Nvidia Response to GTX Series Voltage Control

[Nelly]

Are you ready for this...

We contacted Nvidia for comment and received a response from their Senior PR Manager, Bryan Del Rizzo with the following,

"Green Light was created to help ensure that all of the GTX boards in the market all have great acoustics, temperatures, and mechanicals. This helps to ensure our GTX customers get the highest quality product that runs quiet, cool, and fits in their PC. GTX is a measureable brand, and Green Light is a promise to ensure that the brand remains as strong as possible by making sure the products brought to market meet our highest quality requirements.

Reducing RMAs has never been a focus of Green Light.

We support overvoltaging up to a limit on our products, but have a maximum reliability spec that is intended to protect the life of the product. We don’t want to see customers disappointed when their card dies in a year or two because the voltage was raised too high.

Regarding overvoltaging above our max spec, we offer AICs two choices:

· Ensure the GPU stays within our operating specs and have a full warranty from NVIDIA.

· Allow the GPU to be manually operated outside specs in which case NVIDIA provides no warranty.

We prefer AICs ensure the GPU stays within spec and encourage this through warranty support, but it’s ultimately up to the AIC what they want to do. Their choice does not affect allocation. And this has no bearing on the end user warranty provided by the AIC. It is simply a warranty between NVIDIA and the AIC.

With Green Light, we don’t really go out of the way to look for ways that AICs enable manual OV. As I stated, this isn’t the core purpose of the program. Yes, you’ve seen some cases of boards getting out into the market with OV features only to have them disabled later. This is due to the fact that AICs decided later that they would prefer to have a warranty. This is simply a choice the AICs each need to make for themselves. How, or when they make this decision, is entirely up to them.

With regards to your MSI comment below, we gave MSI the same choice I referenced above -- change their SW to disable OV above our reliability limit or not obtain a warranty. They simply chose to change their software in lieu of the warranty. Their choice. It is not ours to make, and we don’t influence them one way or the other.

In short, Green Light is an especially important program for a major, new product introduction like Kepler, where our AICs don’t have a lot of experience building and working with our new technologies, but also extends the flexibility to AICs who provide a design that can operate outside of the reliability limits of the board. And, if you look at the products in the market today, there is obviously evidence of differentiation. You only need to look at the large assortment of high quality Kepler boards available today, including standard and overclocked editions."

What does this mean for consumers?
This essentially breaks down to giving consumers fewer options between their cards and limits the innovation that AIBs are capable of implementing in their products. If Nvidia is limiting the AIBs within a set of parameters on their non-reference cards, then they are hurting those board vendors' most profitable products. This gives consumers less choice, while enabling Nvidia to theoretically have lower RMAs. Such a program does, however, make sense if you think about the perception of Nvidia if all of their board partners are running amok. They obviously have to have a certain level of control over what their AIBs do with their GPUs if they are going to warranty them. But, we believe that Nvidia has gone too far in their restrictions on board partners and amount of control they exercise in the process.

So, the Green Light program is a program that we believe hurts AIBs and consumers while enabling Nvidia to reduce their RMA rate and improve their margins. If you are an Nvidia investor, this is great news, but if you are a consumer, this is clearly bad news. Nvidia claims that this has to do with the quality of the product and smoothness of launches, however, we believe that in the end it's all about money.

Source

[BeepBeep2]

With regards to your MSI comment below, we gave MSI the same choice I referenced above -- change their SW to disable OV above our reliability limit or not obtain a warranty. They simply chose to change their software in lieu of the warranty. Their choice. It is not ours to make, and we don’t influence them one way or the other.

This is getting out of hand...
Most consumers do not know what Afterburner is or overclock their GPUs, then the ones that do either seek help in forums or know what they are doing...

The response quoted is supposed to veil what is really happening? Nvidia makes it look like the AIB partners are the bad guys here...but they are pressuring partners into either giving up all warranty from Nvidia (even on inherently faulty GPUs) or give consumers an option to increase voltage on their cards, which voids the manufacturer warranty anyway.

Reducing RMAs has never been a focus of Green Light.

NVIDIA, WTF? Playing bully to every partner you have will never get you anywhere...

[K404]

WTF? I mean, REALLY..... people are whining that nVidia have a warranty and rules that have to be abided by in order to keep that warranty intact.

Last time I checked, overclocking invalidated all warranties and that (overclocking) very frequently involves increasing voltages. We've dealt with those warranty conditions from day one and now we're whining that a component company is doing the same.

We have absolutely no right to complain. A company can put whatever rules it likes onto the parts it makes.

Put yourself in the shoes of any company. Would you put your time and money into making something, then having someone take it, bounce it off the walls, kick it down the street, sweeping it up into a dustpan, tipping it out at your feet and saying "give me another one"

[BeepBeep2]

WTF? I mean, REALLY..... people are whining that nVidia have a warranty and rules that have to be abided by in order to keep that warranty intact.

Last time I checked, overclocking invalidated all warranties and that (overclocking) very frequently involves increasing voltages. We've dealt with those warranty conditions from day one and now we're whining that a component company is doing the same.

We have absolutely no right to complain. A company can put whatever rules it likes onto the parts it makes.

Put yourself in the shoes of any company. Would you put your time and money into making something, then having someone take it, bounce it off the walls, kick it down the street, sweeping it up into a dustpan, tipping it out at your feet and saying "give me another one"

Are you missing something here, or ignoring things?
1. NVIDIA says "remove any options for the consumer to increase voltage or no warranty for you, this includes external options and also software that you make that can be installed and run"
2. EVGA removes EVBOT from 680 classy cards, MSI gets "caught" overvolting cards over normal VID like they have been for generations, on both NVIDIA and AMD, even before boost
3. NVIDIA then claims this has nothing to do with reducing RMAs but reaffirms the fact that they will not provide warranty for companies that allow over-voltage at user's own risk, which already voids the end user's warranty with that company

NVIDIA is assuming here that both the consumer and also board partner will be lying to them in case of an RMA while simultaneously lying about the goal of their "Green Light" program/restrictions.

This is to do nothing but
A. Give NVIDIA more power over AIBs and innovation (looks like vendors that want NVIDIA warranty should not stick NVIDIA GPUs on robust OC-oriented PCBs anymore, stock VRM should do fine)
B. Pretend they are making a much larger profit because RMAs will drop significantly on their side when partners do not allow consumers to over-voltage and OC, kill cards, lie, then the partner does not lie about the reason the GPU is defective?

You may say "put your shoes into any company" but I feel this is going to lessen sales more, hurting partners, and eventually ruining NVIDIA than it will make up in recovered money from less "defective" parts.

[K404]

In reply to

1/ Voltage is voltage, the method doesn't matter.

2/ Previous generations don't matter. These are the warranty conditions now.

3/ This is a -bit- of a gray area, yes. No warranty for ANY of the chips, even if (random example) 95% went into a ref design with no adjustment. I guess a blanket rule is MUCH easier than adding exceptions, but I guess this bit COULD have been handled with more finesse, yes.


Not necessarily lying, no. I think you're being a bit harsh there.


If it does give nVidia more "power over AIBs" its only in relation to their own products which comes back to my original statement about the manufacturer making whatever rules it wants about the use of its parts. Stock VRMs ARE fine, that's why nVidia design and release them. non-ref DO bring improvements, but generally small.


If RMAs drop, would that not prove that nV were right to do it? Plus, is the OC community going to firmly decide if we're a big player or a small fish? If we're a small fish, nV really don't need to care about annoying a small number of people. If we're a big fish, nV will have a nice, small RMA rate. We can all spin this any way we want.....and so can nV.




If nV want to ruin themselves, fine. Let them. You can't save someone from themselves. Look at Apple and their set of rules. We and complain about them, but they're doing fine.



Disclaimer: I am not an nV fanboy, despite my well-known fondness for benching their cards. I would say the same thing in favour of any company. Any and every company has the right to put whatever rules to its products that it likes, regarding safe operating margins. It might end up with fewer customers as a result, that's the balance they have to strike.

[Nelly]

I guess their will be no MSI GTX 780 Lightning now, I mean, what is the point of MSI designing such a great card if it can't do what it's intended for?

Sad times.

[K404]

It might change with the next gen.

nV didn't allow non-ref G80, but did allow non-ref G92, then didn't on the first GT200, then opened up the design ref on the later GT200 cards.

nV didn't allow OC on.....I can't remember what card it was, but that changed in the next product release.

Even if they don't have non-ref, designers can cut back on a lot of work, testing and PR and sell products with no effort on their part. True, they miss the PR of having the best/most appealing card for that series, but given the general availability of them, that in itself in a 2-sided bit of PR.

[paulbagz]

Eh if anything it just means good aftermarker cards (DCUII, Lightnings etc) will have an even large premium.

-PB

[Rollo]

My $.02:

I think all companies who make enthusiast parts should provide the ability to unlock all multipliers, frequencies, and voltages.

However; I also think they should do so by mechanical or software switch that allows them to know if you have, and that doing so voids your warranty, period.

That way comnpanies can sell a part and have some idea what the return rate will be based on their testing, and enthusiasts have the ability to tinker away at their own risk.

Would seem an equitable solution for all concerned. I liked AMD's "AUSUM" switch idea. Have seen way too many guys on forums, "WTF?! Product X suxorz! I'm on my fourth defective card. I put an second 60mm case fan on my case, should be more than adequate for the 33% overvolt my JangoTek 683W PSU can easily supply!" that I'd mess around with "OK you can up the clocks but not the volts, but only with stock heatsinks on every other Thursdays" companies seem to be moving to.

[sin0822]

This is crappy news, while everyone is expanding OCing, nvidia is giving us no alternative than to OC ATI.

[Dimitriman]

Makes my dual bios look all that much sweeter...

Eventually Nvidia will change though, I am sure.

[Rollo]

Makes my dual bios look all that much sweeter...

Eventually Nvidia will change though, I am sure.

Only if they perceive lost business demands it.

[zanzabar]

i have to agree on not warrantying over volting, but i cannot see why you would not cover overclocking on something like the lightning and classified that are sold as overclocking cards. i also hate when companies try to say that the warranty is void if you remove the heatsink just to have your card fail or be unstable due to a dirty heatsink/fan or thermal paste that was not up to spec affter a year and not applied properly to start with.

This is crappy news, while everyone is expanding OCing, nvidia is giving us no alternative than to OC ATI.

isntt that what intel has been doing by making you only able to overclock $200+ chips. the only time it matters is when you need the word of mouth or to build a fan base, and NV has long parts contracts already in place and divided enthusiast alignments making the rest of DIY something that they do not really care about ATM.

[Greg83]

Its messed up. In lamens terms nvidia is saying.
If your software tool or dual bios, lets any card go beyond set max voltages by nvidia
All your brands cards will have no warranty from nvidia. Not only the cards you let this on.

[zanzabar]

Its messed up. In lamens terms nvidia is saying.
If your software tool or dual bios, lets any card go beyond set max voltages by nvidia
All your brands cards will have no warranty from nvidia. Not only the cards you let this on.

that is what i got out of it, and it sucks.

[BababooeyHTJ]

Only if they perceive lost business demands it.

Yeah, and when a larger percentage of Steam users are using GTX670 than 7970 and 7950 combined by a good margin I doubt that they'll be in a rush to change their minds. 660ti seems to be off to a really good start too.

[EniGmA1987]

Sounds like Nvidia is just up to its usual self again.

[andressergio]

i reall dont get this

anyone can put this on normal words ?

[snoid_zero]

i reall dont get this

anyone can put this on normal words ?

overVolting Kepler = No warranty... like it or not

[sin0822]

isntt that what intel has been doing by making you only able to overclock $200+ chips. the only time it matters is when you need the word of mouth or to build a fan base, and NV has long parts contracts already in place and divided enthusiast alignments making the rest of DIY something that they do not really care about ATM.

No because they also are offering you full OC protection warranty. Sure they could unlock the bottom, but for the price it isn't bad. You can get a 2500K for $150 and go, or a 3570K. At least on the top end they are unlocking and offering protection.

Also all the motherboard makers have started to really embrace overclocking.

Also even AMD is pushing OCing on their lower end even though it doesn't perform the best.

IMO overclocking has come a long way in the past decade, this is just a giant step back.

[highoctane]

It boils down to Nvidia saying we will warranty the AIC's parts if they stay within our specs, if they exceed the specs its up to the AIC to warranty the parts and eat the cost.

Obviously people can overvolt and overclock Nvidia cards but Nvidia themselves will not provide warranty to AIC's for parts that "exceed" Nvidia's spec or offer a means to exceed allowable specs.

Basically for an AIC if you want to remove the rev limiter you have to accept full liability for any failures.

[Rollo]

It boils down to Nvidia saying we will warranty the AIC's parts if they stay within our specs, if they exceed the specs its up to the AIC to warranty the parts and eat the cost.

Obviously people can overvolt and overclock Nvidia cards but Nvidia themselves will not provide warranty to AIC's for parts that "exceed" Nvidia's spec or offer a means to exceed allowable specs.

Basically for an AIC if you want to remove the rev limiter you have to accept full liability for any failures.

To me that seems a very fair way to approach the situation.

NVIDIA sells chips they warrant will work up to X volts, not "X volts + whatever the AIC desires". The AIC can overvolt as they see fit, but I see no reason NVIDIA should warrant spec that is not their own.

[Rollo]

Yeah, and when a larger percentage of Steam users are using GTX670 than 7970 and 7950 combined by a good margin I doubt that they'll be in a rush to change their minds. 660ti seems to be off to a really good start too.

I haven't looked at STEAM in a while, that is pretty impressive. I get why they tried it, but IMO AMD blew a huge opportunity launching 7970 at $500+.

[highoctane]

To me that seems a very fair way to approach the situation.

I can't imagine any manufacturer who would want to accept the liability/cost of warranty from a product exceeding its engineering spec.

It doesn't matter what the product is, if you exceed the engineered limit you are pretty much on your own.

As a consumer the thing I don't like is that it limits the choice I have if I don't even care about warranty and want to fry my card for the hell of it, if I wanted to.

[Voodoo Hoodoo]

If you had a new motor installed by a profesisonal service in a car and the engine blew because you over-revved it, would you take it back to the dealership (manufacturer) and demand a new motor? Would you go back to the installer and demand a new motor?

People seem to be getting angry at the fact nVidia doesn't cover ALL the variants the AIC's create using the nVidia default spec, but have a single agreement in place that covers all the AIC cards produced. It's not nVidia demanding people to make 'superwtfoverclockedlightning' cards. AIC's do this. If they stood behind their product they'd go with their own warranty system, right?

I own two GTX 680 Lightnings, I was willing to pay a premium for that extra headroom so I could crank up my graphics, yet I still believe that it's my own fault if they crap out before I choose to replace them. I fully support nVidia on this choice.