AMD Rolls Out new HD 7950 BIOS, Expects Existing Customers to Look the Other Way

[raghu78]

About that bias argument, the Boost Edition has been posted for sale:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131478

$20-$30 premium over most entry level CUSTOM COOLED HD 7950 cards.

I believe apologies are in order from the naysayers, no?

The lowest HD 7950 price at newegg is USD 350. Obviously rebates cannot be factored in because many users have complained that they do not get rebates as promised.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=1&srchInDesc=

I think its clear that you have overreacted. So review the Powercolor HD 7950 with Boost state as the SKU must have been binned to boost to 925 Mhz properly. Flashing the HD 7950 Boost BIOS on old HD 7950s results in the card working at 850 Mhz and not boosting properly to 925 Mhz. I have no doubt that a HD 7950 (925 Mhz) is faster than GTX 660 Ti. And the gap increases when you factor in overclocking with voltage tweaking. HD 7950 users on OCN are easily running at 1100 - 1150 Mhz with a bit of voltage tweaking. At those speeds the HD 7950 performs like a HD 7970 Ghz. You can see the user reviews at newegg of cards like Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition. User reviews of this card are a good confirmation of what I have said here.

[SKYMTL]

The lowest HD 7950 price at newegg is USD 350. Obviously rebates cannot be factored in because many users have complained that they do not get rebates as promised.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...=1&srchInDesc=

Those are straight up rebates from what I understand. Not the dodgy mail-in-rebates. This is why when comparing the GTX 660 Ti against the HD 7950, may reviewers (including us) used the $319 to $329 price point. Are you saying we should have done otherwise? That wouldn't have turned out all that well for the $50 more expensive HD 7950 then.....

[raghu78]

Those are straight up rebates from what I understand. Not the dodgy mail-in-rebates. This is why when comparing the GTX 660 Ti against the HD 7950, may reviewers (including us) used the $319 to $329 price point. Are you saying we should have done otherwise? That wouldn't have turned out all that well for the $50 more expensive HD 7950 then.....

Just try adding one to your cart and see for yourself. Those are mail in rebates. Other way round that would have been even worse for GTX 660 Ti , if you take fastest factory overclocked GTX 660 Ti and factory overclocked HD 7950. HD 7950 would easily win.

fastest factory clocked GTX 660 Ti
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814125440

fastest factory clocked HD 7950
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814102991

There are lots of sites which show the HD 7950 to be faster especially with higher quality settings even at 1080p. And this is HD 7950 at 800 Mhz.

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/873-...formances.html
http://ht4u.net/reviews/2012/nvidia_...st/index40.php
http://www.computerbase.de/artikel/g...-gtx-660-ti/7/

If you use a utility like Sapphire Trixx with a bit of voltage tweaking the Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition has no problems hitting 1100 - 1150 Mhz. In fact user reviews at newegg show HD 7950 OC card users running them at 1100 - 1150 Mhz not a retarded 800 Mhz. HD 7950 (1150 Mhz) is atleast as fast as HD 7970 Ghz, in fact slightly faster. So please stop trying to make everyone believe that the GTX 660 Ti competes against a HD 7950. If you want do the testing for yourself and see it.

[STEvil]

Shouldnt the 660/670/680 have been tested at guaranteed clocks as well? If you let it boost to whatever it feels like that day (my 670's seem to like to change day to day) then your numbers could be inflated..

[raghu78]

It will be neither. We will be reviewing a "reference" design rather than an OC SKU. If need be, I'll put my money where my mouth is and buy one.

The HIS card is not overclocked. Its as per the default HD 7950 Boost edition. 850 Mhz core speed with 925 Mhz boost.

http://www.hisdigital.com/un/product2-725.shtml

The Sapphire card is DUAL BIOS. the first one is 850 Mhz without boost. the second one is boost speeds upto 950 Mhz and increased powertune limit and fan speeds to make sure the card reaches its advertised speeds without any clock throttling.

http://www.sapphiretech.com/presenta...articleID=4717

"On its standard settings, the SAPPHIRE HD 7950 Vapor-X Edition engine clock runs at 850 MHz with 3GB of the latest DDR5 memory clocked at 5000 MHz effective. When the Dual BIOS button is operated, the base clocks are the same but the PowerTune Dynamic Boost is enabled allowing the clocks to rise to 950 MHz or more on the engine. The fan profile and PowerTune limit is also changed to performance settings. In addition, users will be able to individually tune the card with SAPPHIRE TriXX, the company’s free to download software tool that allows key parameters to be adjusted for maximum performance."

[SKYMTL]

I am looking for a reference design to be honest. Without that, I cannot compare apples to apples unless I get the same two non-reference designs (which isn't easy).

I actually bought the PC one yesterday. It should be here today or on Monday and it will be tested against an identical reference design.


As for the price, at $350, I think a standard HD 7950 is an exceedingly a poor value for anyone playing at 1080P. The Boost version seems to be a better value but we will see....

[Ket]

Given the HUGE price difference between the HD7950 and GTX670 (in the UK that difference is a whopping £80-£100) AMD could see a LOT of HD7950 sales with this update. I was grimacing at the thought of having to splash out £280-£300 to replace my aging (but still handles whatever I throw at it) GTX460 1GB. I find myself grimacing far less at the thought of the dodgy AMD drivers than I do the pricetag of a GTX670.

[Lanek]

Given the HUGE price difference between the HD7950 and GTX670 (in the UK that difference is a whopping £80-£100) AMD could see a LOT of HD7950 sales with this update. I was grimacing at the thought of having to splash out £280-£300 to replace my aging (but still handles whatever I throw at it) GTX460 1GB. I find myself grimacing far less at the thought of the dodgy AMD drivers than I do the pricetag of a GTX670.

At same time, if you was seen the quality of Nvidia drivers for 600 series today .. ( no seriously, just make a ride on some threads )

( I admit this can stand as i defend amd, but well, we could say too when things go wrong on Nividia side ..)

[Ket]

I haven't seen what the quality of nvidias drivers are like lately. I seem to have more problems with the R304 drivers than I do the R280 or 290 drivers though. Currently I'm looking at a HD7950 which I could grab for £250, its still £30 cheaper than the cheapest GTX670 I can find.

With this vBIOS update it really becomes a no brainer if you are tossing up between a GTX670 or HD7950. Average pricing of a GTX670 is £300 and average pricing for a HD7950 is £240-250. Once you start to look at slightly fancier models with custom coolers thats where the difference can be anywhere between £80-£100. That kind of added expense is just not worth it. Nvidia are even insulting their customers when it comes to the current pricing of the GTX660 Ti in the UK, here the price of a GTX660 Ti is only at best about £40 cheaper than a GTX670 with it being very normal to only see a £20 difference between the 660 Ti and 670. I think everyone would agree £260 - £280 for a 660 Ti is absurd, the 660 Ti is a crippled 670 with rather stark shortcomings given its price. I might hold out for another few weeks and see where the price war takes things and snap up a 7950 or 670 at the first sign of a low pricepoint.

[RPGWiZaRD]

I also concider HD 7950 the best buy atm with all things concidered and I'm a longtime Nvidia user and I've concidered upgrading very soon and HD 7950 is starting to look appealing but there is one concern, how does AMD cards hold up to 120Hz LCD support today? Any issues still present? Can run other resolutions than native monitor res and maintain 120Hz? Will they support 144Hz?

[tbone8ty]

http://www.pcper.com/news/General-Te...umors-and-more

Nice little rant

[AbortRetryFail?]

The irony in this thread is the nVidia marketing spluge over the last few days

nVidia testicles, in vise ...

[BababooeyHTJ]

As for the price, at $350, I think a standard HD 7950 is an exceedingly a poor value for anyone playing at 1080P. The Boost version seems to be a better value but we will see....

But GTX 670 is.

[raghu78]

I am looking for a reference design to be honest. Without that, I cannot compare apples to apples unless I get the same two non-reference designs (which isn't easy).

I actually bought the PC one yesterday. It should be here today or on Monday and it will be tested against an identical reference design.

As for the price, at $350, I think a standard HD 7950 is an exceedingly a poor value for anyone playing at 1080P. The Boost version seems to be a better value but we will see....

You can keep beating the same stock speeds performance issue but people who buy these cards overclock. If you deny that you are not honest. At USD 350 buying a ref HD 7950 at 800 Mhz is not a good value because factory overclocked versions like Gigabyte HD 7950 Windforce (900 Mhz) and Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition are available at the same price. imo these HD 7950 OC cards offer better price perf than GTX 670 / GTX 670 OC especially if you consider maximum overclocked performance with voltage tweaking. You can review the Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition or Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor-X and you will know for yourself.

[MaddMuppet]

You can keep beating the same stock speeds performance issue but people who buy these cards overclock. If you deny that you are not honest. At USD 350 buying a ref HD 7950 at 800 Mhz is not a good value because factory overclocked versions like Gigabyte HD 7950 Windforce (900 Mhz) and Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition are available at the same price. imo these HD 7950 OC cards offer better price perf than GTX 670 / GTX 670 OC especially if you consider maximum overclocked performance with voltage tweaking. You can review the Sapphire HD 7950 950 Mhz edition or Sapphire HD 7950 Vapor-X and you will know for yourself.

I know a lot of people who game using computers with descent specs. Out of all of those I am one of the very few who do any overclocking at all. The majority of people out there never even dabble in overclocking at all.

[tbone8ty]

non of your friends are allow here at XS lol

[MaddMuppet]

non of your friends are allow here at XS lol

Haha, I agree. But that's why i'm here. I love to dabble.

[tajoh111]

I think the worst thing for customers this generations is honestly the initial pricing more than anything. This bios update shows more incompetence in AMDs product planning than malignancy on trying to trick the consumer.

Especially AMD's early pricing, this is where AMD screwed up. Right now you can get regular 7970s in canada for as low as 360. Note this is the same price as a gtx 670. Both are fair prices but that is a 200 dollar pricing drop from initial pricing and you even get 4 games on top of that lower price(making it the best deal this generation in my opinion for pure performance). Early adopters got really screwed in that case, more so than usual. Without even hindsight, 20% over last gens high end on a new process and new architecture was a dead giveaway that this pricing collapse was going to happen when you set your prices above last gens high end. AMD should have clocked higher from the get go, rather than go super conservative so they could likely release mid year refreshes to milk the current architecture. The high price and mediocre performance increase made it easy for Nvidias cards to look spectacular in reviews.

These bios releases for reviewers and price drops show poor initial business planning. With lower prices and higher clocks, this could have been hd 5xxx all over again, with nvidia doing quite a bit better but not the market share lopside it is right now in Nvidias favor. Look how much AMD graphic division vs Nvidia(not including the pro line)revenue if you don't believe steam hardware survey results.

Don't get me wrong, Nvidia pricing isn't that great either(the gtx 670 had by far the fairest initial pricing this generation) but even with their high prices, it was enough to cause these price collapses on AMD's part. The thing that makes Nvidia's pricing just as bad as AMD's are the chips are so much smaller than what they used to sell at the 499 price point and it also has less memory. None the less for the long run, Nvidia's semi high pricing is good for competition. Imagined if the gtx 680 launched at 399 or 299. $349 pricing would have forced AMD to sell at fire prices and would have ensured that AMD lost a lot of money on their graphic division. In addition it would have been stupid of Nvidia considering how much market share lead they have over AMD during this generation, the consumers for the most part consider it a fair price for their cards.

I think the lesson learned this generation is unless the performance is mind blowing, don't be an early adopter. Buy when there is competition around. You might not only get a vastly cheaper card for the same product, you might get a faster version on top of this.

[raghu78]

I haven't seen what the quality of nvidias drivers are like lately. I seem to have more problems with the R304 drivers than I do the R280 or 290 drivers though. Currently I'm looking at a HD7950 which I could grab for £250, its still £30 cheaper than the cheapest GTX670 I can find.

With this vBIOS update it really becomes a no brainer if you are tossing up between a GTX670 or HD7950. Average pricing of a GTX670 is £300 and average pricing for a HD7950 is £240-250. Once you start to look at slightly fancier models with custom coolers thats where the difference can be anywhere between £80-£100. That kind of added expense is just not worth it. Nvidia are even insulting their customers when it comes to the current pricing of the GTX660 Ti in the UK, here the price of a GTX660 Ti is only at best about £40 cheaper than a GTX670 with it being very normal to only see a £20 difference between the 660 Ti and 670. I think everyone would agree £260 - £280 for a 660 Ti is absurd, the 660 Ti is a crippled 670 with rather stark shortcomings given its price. I might hold out for another few weeks and see where the price war takes things and snap up a 7950 or 670 at the first sign of a low pricepoint.

The BIOS update is not the best option. Manually overclocking at stock voltage or with voltage tweaking using Sapphire trixx or MSI afterburner is the best option. the HD 7950 Boost bios voltage seems to be too much. even at stock voltage the ref HD 7950 at 800 Mhz overclocks to 1 Ghz. Why apply extra voltage and increase power consumption and temps. At £240 get a custom cooler HD 7950 card and overclock to 1 Ghz and enjoy perf of ref HD 7970 (925 Mhz) for a much lesser price.

[LordEC911]

About that bias argument, the Boost Edition has been posted for sale:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16814131478

$20-$30 premium over most entry level CUSTOM COOLED HD 7950 cards.

I believe apologies are in order from the naysayers, no?

The bias comment had little to do with this "situation" it was more about the fact that you are blowing this out of proportion when there was so many more real opportunities to do this over the last two or three years. The fact that you can't see it is truly the sad part...

[Alex-Ro]

Well guess they tooked in consideration that some gpu's could not manage 925 mhz on turbo without the additional voltage.It's just a precaution.

[SKYMTL]

The bias comment had little to do with this "situation" it was more about the fact that you are blowing this out of proportion when there was so many more real opportunities to do this over the last two or three years. The fact that you can't see it is truly the sad part...

Yeah, maybe it was blown into Charlie-esque proportions. I'll admit that.


On the flip side of that coin, testing on the PowerColor Boost card has finished after an all-night marathon of benchmarking. Things look good but I'm VERY happy that I waited for the retail version since the $349 PowerColor card's heatsink (IE: the new "reference" heatsink) is nothing like the card reviewer's received when the HD 7950 was first launched. It can handle the Boost Edition's increased heat output fine....but overclocking is another matter altogether different.

[Ket]

The BIOS update is not the best option. Manually overclocking at stock voltage or with voltage tweaking using Sapphire trixx or MSI afterburner is the best option. the HD 7950 Boost bios voltage seems to be too much. even at stock voltage the ref HD 7950 at 800 Mhz overclocks to 1 Ghz. Why apply extra voltage and increase power consumption and temps. At £240 get a custom cooler HD 7950 card and overclock to 1 Ghz and enjoy perf of ref HD 7970 (925 Mhz) for a much lesser price.

Well, there certainly wasn't any need to raise voltage I can only assume that was AMD trying to cover their own arses for any cards with weaker cores but given how AMD can just slap out a vBIOS update ramping up GPU speeds like that suggests they knew all along the 7950 GPU could handle a way high default GPU clock. As of yesterday the best I could find was a reference 7950 for £240, today however I can pick up a reference 7950 with custom cooler for as little as £221 which is awesome. I'm probably going to get a MSI TwinFrozr 7950 though as I found one for £240 which is a awesome price really.

[raghu78]

Well, there certainly wasn't any need to raise voltage I can only assume that was AMD trying to cover their own arses for any cards with weaker cores but given how AMD can just slap out a vBIOS update ramping up GPU speeds like that suggests they knew all along the 7950 GPU could handle a way high default GPU clock. As of yesterday the best I could find was a reference 7950 for £240, today however I can pick up a reference 7950 with custom cooler for as little as £221 which is awesome. I'm probably going to get a MSI TwinFrozr 7950 though as I found one for £240 which is a awesome price really.

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-054-HS

You could consider the HIS Iceq HD 7950 for £240. the cooler is one of the most efficient designs in the market. The MSI Twin is not as good as the HIS Iceq Turbo. heard quite a few complaints about the cooler not being able to keep temps under 70c with very highly voltage overclocked HD 7950.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...k,3207-14.html

HIS Iceq should be able to easily keep the HD 7950 temps under 70c at very high speeds as shown in this video review
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnTdEFX_dLw

[SKYMTL]

The main issue for purchasers is the IceQ's price. It typically comes at a significant premium. Hopefully, that will change with the Boost Edition though.