No Zero Policies

[STEvil]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...n.html?cmp=rss

Been following this since it started.. cant believe the morons that are running our school systems these days. Next thing you wont be able to give a student less than 80% on a test because having a lower mark than the top end kids will make them sad, or even remove grading all together..

[K404]

Well, your link doesn't entirely.....link to the problem and discussion. The link is about a teacher who dropped the ball after being suspended

[STEvil]

Should maybe read the link again, whether he dropped the ball or not is up in the air as the timings may be more related as to what the school did and/or did not do. Even if he did "drop the ball" the school should have picked up on that earlier (and it is actually indicated they did in the article showing that they are at fault).

[BeepBeep2]

I don't want to comment my thoughts right now as it is past 3AM here and I have to work at 7, but teachers usually avoid giving zeros regardless of what goes on.
However the guy there isn't really right as far as "pushing kids through regardless of if they do the work".

The policy is simply that if a student completes 60% of an assignment, gets 66% of that assignment correct, that they receive whatever percentage they got correct on the whole, with the uncompleted work being counted wrong.

Your reaction "morons running the schools these days" is a little unwarranted IMHO.

I'm currently a senior in high school, and the work has been tough for me, no doubt. The way most of the teachers at my school work, they focus more on the amount of learning being done and not about what is on paper. Most of my teachers are willing to work with students after the school day as well if the students are struggling, and give breaks as far as grades go if the students follow up and make an effort.

[K404]

Should maybe read the link again, whether he dropped the ball or not is up in the air as the timings may be more related as to what the school did and/or did not do. Even if he did "drop the ball" the school should have picked up on that earlier (and it is actually indicated they did in the article showing that they are at fault).

I have actually re-read it after your suggestion. The news report isn't about zero-marking. That barely gets a mention. It's about the questionable professionalism of a teacher who was suspended for reasons related to zero-marking, but the news report talks about what happened after the suspension.

Zero-marking is/was the starting point, the news report is talking about the principal teacher and the science guy not communicating properly or showing much in the way of common sense.

[STEvil]

Well excuse me for not going and grabbing the originating materials.. should I get a 50% for that since I only did part of the work? Do I really need to spoon feed you the article anyways? Maybe you should get 50% for reading the article but not going further as the thread topic suggests there is something that started this in the first place? ...

Beepbeep - If a student does NO work, should they not get a 0? Thats what most of this is about, students not handing in any work at all. Even those who didnt are given only a temporary zero by the guy and could make up or turn in the work later.

The 60/66 policy is not a no-zero policy and has nothing to do with this. Those numbers would represent that work is being done. 0's represent NO WORK.

The way most of the teachers at my school work, they focus more on the amount of learning being done and not about what is on paper. Most of my teachers are willing to work with students after the school day as well if the students are struggling, and give breaks as far as grades go if the students follow up and make an effort.

Which was the same for this teacher. He simply gave 0's instead of writing "incomplete" when something wasnt handed in.

I stand by my comment that I cant believe there are such morons running the school system. 0, incomplete, whatever, it all stands for no work, no effort, no result. Since "incomplete" does not count to a final score (where a 0 does) putting a pretty face on the number only inflates the bottom line of the schools average score around here and results in increased funding for the school.

This is almost as bad as the no child left behind crap where you cant fail a grade, or removing scores from games (soccer/football/whatever).

[K404]

Well, are you talking about the no zero debate, or the teacher who got suspended? Change your thread title or change your link. What's the POINT of this thread? Where do you want it to go, what do you want to discuss??

Do you see my point?

[BeepBeep2]

\
This is almost as bad as the no child left behind crap where you cant fail a grade, or removing scores from games (soccer/football/whatever).

Are you sure you know what you're talking about?

[STEvil]

I know perfectly well what i'm talking about.

[BeepBeep2]

Sure you do.
NCLB "crap" did not make it to where "you can't fail a grade".

Last time I checked, you don't even live in the United States so don't be talking about things you know very little about. What did you do, read a Wikipedia article about it, formulate your own opinions and take them for fact? We have extremely strict per state standardized tests here to evaluate teacher performance. I see kids fail all the time, by the way. The kids that deserve to pass end up passing, the kids that smoke pot in the woods across the street every morning are repeating grades and getting expelled. In my local school district, standardized test scores have only been skyrocketing, do you think the tests are getting easier or do you think the teachers are taking the tests for the children? Do you care more about making sure kids fail or "get zeros" or do you care more about the learning being done?

Nice post in the news section btw, I know that was a personal dig.

You've been here forever, and you have special status here, you know better than to use XS as a breeding ground for your personal political agendas that are based off of generalizations and falsifications.

[schoolslave]

The problem is that the education system, instead of focusing on actually ensuring students learn the proper materials, is more concerned with the number of students getting through the system and "graduating" with a HS diploma.
I guess this is also related to which school district you are in and how badly they need the federal/state funding, most "richer" school districts can actually afford to teach proper classes instead of teaching towards a useless state exam and handing out A+'s and A's to everyone....

Most of my college professors/adviser also says that High School GPAs are so inflated as to be almost meaningless nowadays. (this is at PSU in PA btw)

[STEvil]

Sure you do.
NCLB "crap" did not make it to where "you can't fail a grade".

Last time I checked, you don't even live in the United States so don't be talking about things you know very little about. What did you do, read a Wikipedia article about it, formulate your own opinions and take them for fact? We have extremely strict per state standardized tests here to evaluate teacher performance. I see kids fail all the time, by the way. The kids that deserve to pass end up passing, the kids that smoke pot in the woods across the street every morning are repeating grades and getting expelled. In my local school district, standardized test scores have only been skyrocketing, do you think the tests are getting easier or do you think the teachers are taking the tests for the children? Do you care more about making sure kids fail or "get zeros" or do you care more about the learning being done?

Nice post in the news section btw, I know that was a personal dig.

You've been here forever, and you have special status here, you know better than to use XS as a breeding ground for your personal political agendas that are based off of generalizations and falsifications.

Maybe it would help if you realized what i'm talking about is not just a US problem, let alone that there are obviously different school boards handling the situations differently.

So you're telling us that NCLB is not abused, or that no-zero policies are not abused as well? There is positive capability, but to say it is being used in an overall positive manner is not what i've experienced so far. Thankfully myself and you are separated by a large distance, so to say it doesnt work where I am and where you are, are not the same thing.

But please continue to think that everything is the same for everyone if it pleases you.

[BeepBeep2]

But please continue to think that everything is the same for everyone if it pleases you.

Quite hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

LMAO, generalizing the issue with comments like -

cant believe the morons that are running our school systems these days.

and randomly injecting this into an unrelated discussion for the sole reason of advancing your agenda and insulting the intelligence of other members -

I think its a product of the poor education systems... sigh.

If you want to react to the local district in the article you linked to this thread, by all means do so...but don't say stupid like "cant believe the morons that are running our school systems these days." on an obviously national/continental/global level.

[zanzabar]

i would have loved this (or still would as take cert/new software classes occasionally.) i have always hated homework (especially math) but ace the tests. when you hear parents say that the school is in the wrong since they are not challenging the kid, that was me in math. i went to a private middle/elementary school and did the equivalent of the 1st half of algebra 2 back in 7th grade and had to take what amounted to the same class for another 4 years until i could quit math in my senior year of high school. so with that homework was even more boring than it should have (same with chem labs, i had to do so many silver sulphate titrations even in collage it was the same as middle school.)

but now, i have learned that the point of school is not to learn academic skills so much as to learn how to work. i think if that was explained to kids more and they had some sort of possessive incentive to do the work it would go over better for all parties.

If you want to react to the local district in the article you linked to this thread, by all means do so...but don't say stupid like "cant believe the morons that are running our school systems these days." on an obviously national/continental/global level.

have you seen the test scores for the US, the complaints for collages that students are not prepared, and the lack of people graduating with degrees in science. also, even though stevil is in canada, they are having the same trends as the US when it comes to education.

hell, in louisiana the state allows vouchers for schools that have been teaching the loch ness monster is real and it shows how evolution is false. (not a joke)
http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/e...ution.17918511

[alpha0ne]

I know perfectly well what i'm talking about.

I'm pretty sure THIS (The 5 Biggest Pussifications of Schools, courtesy of CRACKED.com) is what your getting at

[K404]

teaching the loch ness monster is real

The Loch Ness Monster is as real as the millions of pounds it generates in tourism every year

[B-Shot]

If I make an A+ and lil Jonny makes an 0, teacher will make my grade a C to bring lil Jonny's grade up to a C so the class will average a C grade....... just like some governments try to do with money......grade redistribution is the future....

[K404]

It would be nice if smart but not arrogant kids could be paired with less bright, but willing to try hard kids on a wide scale. The smart ones reinforce their understanding by learning how to explain it and the less bright kid gets it explained using a peer instead of an "alien"

It's not grade redistribution per se, it handles give and take in a much more useful way

My world is THAT naive and idealistic :p

Realisitcally, if kids were paired, the smart one would be horrible to the dumb one then the dumb one beats the smart one to a pulp. Sigh.

Maybe one of the problems with the education system and underachieving pupils/ students is that so much of it is just numbers and words. Even at uni, I was told to learn so much stuff and very VERY little of it was accompanied by real-world uses. Give people a valid reason to learn, a connection to something they care about.... and I imagine things will get much better.


Anyway...this is equally off-topic.

Zero marking: fine by me. If I know nothing, I want to be told I know nothing. May as well set myself up for the real world, then at least i'll know how to handle it. If I walk into a job interview knowing nothing, I don't expect to be given a job out of sympathy to keep my self-esteem ticking over.

[STEvil]

Quite hypocritical, wouldn't you say?

LMAO, generalizing the issue with comments like -

and randomly injecting this into an unrelated discussion for the sole reason of advancing your agenda and insulting the intelligence of other members -

If you want to react to the local district in the article you linked to this thread, by all means do so...but don't say stupid like "cant believe the morons that are running our school systems these days." on an obviously national/continental/global level.

NCLB/no-zero are mostly per-board specific, not national/global, and also enforced slightly differently per school/board dependent on several factors.

Continue thinking everything is the same for everyone, though.

[BeepBeep2]

I'm not, and never was, but thanks for reading my mind and further directing my thinking. I was previously unaware that arrogant humans could be telepathic.

Re-read my last post too, because you mixed topics in your response, I was not talking about the no-zeroes policy. I was talking about your claims of morons running our school systems...that is quite some claim coming out of a person's mouth like yours. What research brought you to such conclusions?

[STEvil]

I'm not, and never was, but thanks for reading my mind and further directing my thinking. I was previously unaware that arrogant humans could be telepathic.

Re-read my last post too, because you mixed topics in your response, I was not talking about the no-zeroes policy. I was talking about your claims of morons running our school systems...that is quite some claim coming out of a person's mouth like yours. What research brought you to such conclusions?

It would take a moron to allow and misuse a NCLB/No-Zero policy, wouldnt it, or are you implying that the average and/or even good teachers misuse them?

Since everything is so obvious, why dont you lay it out for us?