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Thread: IGN: Why Do People 'Hate' EA? - Seriously? What is that all about? We asked EA.

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    IGN: Why Do People 'Hate' EA? - Seriously? What is that all about? We asked EA.

    Why do people hate EA? When I say 'people,' I mean 'some people,' some of the time -- a minority. And when I say 'hate' I mean mostly the writing of mean things on the internet.

    This brand, this company, this group of people, creates some of the best and biggest games in the world with an average Metacritic rating that’s high and rising. It is profitable, but not outrageously so, and is under-valued by the stock market. So how has it managed to create enough ill-will to be voted the worst company in America? And even if it wasnt, even if we put that down to a temporary 'Mass Effect ending' negative blip that everyone has already forgotten about, there’s no doubt that ‘EA Hate’ is a thing.

    I wanted to talk about this with Peter Moore, EA’s COO and he was big enough to tackle the uncomfortable question head on. It’s obvious that the whole issue bugs the hell out of him, and other people who work at EA and who care about EA as an entity. “It's painful when you read that commentary. The vitriol is hard on the teams. They read this stuff, their neighbors ask them about it. You probably saw the video, EA in a Nutshell. It portrays us as a money-grubbing monolith, gouging. And you just want to say... really...we are The Man? Unfortunately, I've always learned that the tallest trees catch the most wind.”

    Of course, there’s no doubt that EA does silly things and makes dumb mistakes, as do all large companies. The point of this question isn’t really to exonerate EA for every foolish or greedy thing it’s ever done, but to investigate the depth of emotion that the company attracts -- to try to understand why.

    EA is a Corporation

    Let’s be clear. EA is a corporation and its primary concern is making money.

    We are supposed to accept the fiction that corporations are people, so let me suggest an alternative, equally ludicrous fiction. Corporations are actually dogs. They exist to eat and grow and reproduce and occasionally they make people feel good. But if you leave the pantry door open, they’ll make away with the sausages. They just can’t help themselves.

    The best you can hope is that the corporation is managed by people who don’t let them poop on the pavement, or bite small children.

    As companies go, EA is not as cuddly and nice as, say Valve. But then, Valve isn’t publicly traded. Valve isn’t owned by banks. EA isn’t exactly Dogtanian or Lady or Lassie. But nor is it Kujo. And the world is full of Kujos. You are probably touching something right now that was conceived, manufactured, funded, or distributed by Kujo.

    So the question is valid. Why EA? Probably because EA makes games and people care about games in ways that they don’t about gasoline or shopping bags or laptop accessories. Games are products, but they are also special.

    Moore says, “There is this underlying belief in a lot of gamers that games shouldn't be profitable enterprises. I try and sit down with people as much as I can and explain what it takes to make a video game and how much capital investment it takes. We employ over 9,000 people. We invest over a billion dollars a year in R&D, most of which doesn't see revenue until the following year, or in some instances, the year after that. And so you've constantly got to be making money to reinvest money to make great games.”

    EA and Your Money

    Judging by the forums and articles on this subject, EA’s most grievous error seems to be in its attempts to get more money out of its customers. Its tinkering with DLC models has enraged many people who believe the firm is gouging the most loyal fans of the great games it makes.

    It is undoubtedly true that tricks like Day One DLC and extra downloadable content is an area where EA and other games companies are toying with our emotions, our loyalties, and our wallets.

    If EA was the only company in gaming trying to figure this stuff out, in a way that suits its shareholders and its customers, and sometimes getting it badly wrong, then there would be an easy explanation for the hate. But it’s not. Every company is trying to figure it out, because if they don’t they’ll go broke. And most of them, at some level, are getting it wrong. They are feeling their way through the dark and they are afraid. Sure, the people making these decisions want to get it wrong in a way that doesn’t get them fired, in a way that sucks in money as opposed to blowing money out.

    The $60 game is dying. The mid-range game is no longer profitable. EA has to focus its energies elsewhere in order to meet those quarterly targets. Otherwise its share price will be in an even crappier place than it currently is, and it’ll get eaten up by Kujo. You think the system is flawed? Me too. But I’m not about to move to Cuba.

    Moore says, “We have to try things, because we are facing the spectre of the stuff that we've enjoyed selling at a decent gross revenue line, that in the future we'll have to go and give away for free. It's no different from you and I having to go to work and not get paid, but then at the end of the day, we've found a way to make a hundred bucks through five dollars here and ten dollars there. That is the future of what we as a company have to figure out. Otherwise we're gone.”

    EA and its Beloved Games

    I am not one of those free-market fundamentalists who shrugs and says ‘if you don’t like it, don’t buy it’. In my view, brands have a hard-wired moral responsibility towards their fans to behave in a way that is respectful.

    But it is useful that your dollar has power. Brands that fail to align with our expectations, sooner or later, lose customers. I used to buy products from certain manufacturers of computers, clothing, cars. Now I don’t. At some point, they annoyed me off by gouging, employing small children, or attempting to destroy the planet. It’s probable that the brands I currently use will one day tick me off sufficiently that I choose something different.

    Unfortunately EA is slightly different, and this is the second reason for the hate. EA is the only company where you can buy Madden. Mass Effect, Battlefield, Need For Speed. Those games all have competitors, but you are invested in these particular games because they have stories and characters and modes that you care about. So the ‘don’t buy it’ mantra makes way less sense. This is a phenomenon that works equally well with, say, George Lucas. If you want a different sort of Star Wars movie, you’re kind of powerless.

    Your recourse to things you don’t like is, of course, to withhold your money and to go online and make your feelings known, sometimes articulately and sometimes less so. But we’re not talking here about ‘criticism’. We’re talking about hate, that mindset where whatever EA does, however harmless its motives, it’s going to get flak.

    When EA attempts, absolutely necessarily, to get into the digital distribution business, it becomes the focus of ire because it makes use of its best brands to create an exclusive advantage in a sector where it is a long way behind the established market-leader. Good business? Maybe. Good PR? Probably not. EA has done some very smart things with Origin. And its done some very stupid things, like banning accounts for no good reason or failing to invest sufficiently in customer support.

    If it has an ounce of wit, it’ll listen to the criticism and Moore says that EA is genuinely interested in what customers have to say, even in the most heated forums. “There are enough gems of well-written responses out there that it makes it worth picking through all the other drivel that you read. Read ten and then the eleventh guy comes in and says, ‘wait a second, let's think this through’...”

    EA and its History

    And then there’s the past. Famously, EA was founded with noble ideals, to “make software worthy of the minds that use it” and to create “a language of dreams”. No-one is going to seriously accuse EA of being on a moral or intellectual mission, but there still seems to be people who believe that’s exactly what companies should be doing, and they may be right. Back in the real world of grubby commerce, EA has a history of less-than-ideal behavior. EA Spouse, for example, showed the company tolerating a culture where work-life balances were out of kilter. This was in the middle part of the last decade and, thankfully, it was addressed.

    My guess is that EA is probably no worse a place to work than anywhere else, probably better. If the focus of your hate is working conditions at EA, I want to gently suggest you also consider clothing factories in southeast Asia or diamond mines in southern Africa, or fast food outlets in the mid-west.

    Then there were all those awesome developers that EA bought, back in the day, and neutered and destroyed through overbearing centralized management or neglect. All those things happened. Talk to, say, Bioware today, and it becomes evident that they were not merely horrible mistakes, but also expensive lessons. EA learns, because it must. Mistakes are made and new dictates come down. We change. Or else.

    EA and the Future

    I know that I place myself in the firing line by daring to suggest that EA is flawed, imperfect, sometimes idiotic, but not hateful. I know it’s uncool to side with a corporation and say ‘well, they have good reason to behave in this way’. And I also know that EA’s phalanx of PRs will not thank me for bringing this whole subject up again.

    But EA makes many of the biggest and best games that we play. And it employs some of the smartest people in gaming. So although EA deserves to be analyzed and scrutinized and criticized, it’s weird and it’s unjust that -- so often -- we see this company portrayed as something that’s purely malevolent.

    Peter Moore says, “In gaming the highway of innovation is littered with roadkill, developers and publishers that just couldn't figure it out, couldn't find ways to bring money in so they could pay their employees and pay their rent and keep the electricity on and everything else you need to do. That's why we try different things. We don't gouge. We don’t sit around a boardroom and say, ‘okay, how can we can squeeze five dollars out of this guy because he won't realize what we're doing’. It's none of that. None of that. It's a very small minority [haters]. I think the average gamer enjoys what we do and gets what needs to happen for a business to exist and evolve and grow.”
    http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/06/...people-hate-ea

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    IGN licking the boots of EA... now thats unheard off...

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    I'm going to side, not with the article writer, but with the concept here.

    I don't see DLC as gouging. I see it as a truth and an expansion of a past principle.

    When Diablo 2 was out, and D2:LoD (expansion pack) came out, no one complained it was $30 more dollars and wasn't a stand alone. We had years and years of expansion packs that we had to pay for. Now that's become DLC and people feel as if it's BS. Before, if there was no expansion, it meant that once a game was made, it was done. That was it. No more innovation. The team was moved to another project, and if the game had issues, you didn't get much in the way of fixing without community patches or the occasional minor fix for the first few months.
    A good example of this was the Red Alert series. Or the Tiberium series.

    Now we see many people complaining about DLC prices. And I just see it as an expansion pack. So maybe my mindset isn't congruent. But I do expect to pay for additional content on games I purchase.

    But there's the devils side of the coin here too.

    Some games launch, with so little content, or with so many issues, that the thunderstorm rolls in with much reason to. Blizzards D3 launch has been a bit of this so far. Much of the original advertised content, well, it just doesn't exist. It doesn't occur as stated. It wasn't what they said it would be. In which case... Well we ordered a Ferrari and a Honda Civic rolled off the line. For D3, a Honda Civic without tires, seats, or even a transmission. And that's where the DLC mindset becomes exploited by some of these companies.

    Now games glitch. Computer games more than console games. And many of the issues I saw at the BF3 launch, were often that the game was laggy. That certain mechanics weren't working. That something failed here, or they failed there. And they fixed these. The game I feel is much more playable than ever.

    They also promised more content.

    Not only did they say there would be more content. It was stated that it was coming, that it was free, and it was part of the BF3 package.
    And some of it was.

    Then came the DLC you had to pay for, and I don't see the issue.
    The new DLC was solid, it's an expansion to the game. I don't expect that for free. I expect to have to whip out the wallet and send someone some money if they give me another 12 hours of playtime. Maybe as someone who once frequented arcades, I'm just hardwired to expect to pump more quarters in.

    But to those that dislike DLC and just decide to hate a company for that practice. I see no reason.
    Save your effort for those that don't deliver on what they offer, and then expect to sell it to you later. Which I don't think has been a serious issue with EA.
    Now if only they didn't think Origin and DRM was such a grand idea.


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    what dose EA's DLC have to do with expansion pack content, i do not see anyone complaining about bethesda or boarderlands or even the sims (an ea game.) the problem is charging $10-15 for a map pack that should have been free and only offers 1 or 2 good maps at most. when you look at LOD it added a redone engine so the game would work properly at 800x600 instead of 640x480, it added 2 new classes, it added about 25-30% more content to the game, added a bunch of hidden super boss content, and changed the way legendarily and multiplayer worked. when you look at a fallout or elder scrolls DLC it adds a whole new story, some gear and atleast 10 hours of content with new characters and scenery (the same with borderlands.) but now on EA, the main DLC EA has is to make you win at the game with buying unlocks or just skipping to the end (see skate), or it is for skins, or chalenge levels (that used to be included in the game) and many of them are only for pre orders at 1st. if there was a wait of a 9months to a year before DLC so it was really an expansion and a complete experiance then i do think that there would be the back lash but what we have now is content getting cut from games just to be sold as extras. EA is by no means the worst that is clearly capcom.

    and as for the EA hate, look at all of the companies that EA bought then killed, look at pandemic, bioware, criterion, dice, maxis. they were all bought and once the pipeline was done they were shut down (pandemic and criterion) and anything that was not almost finished was ruined by EA changing things to be for a wider audience or for the masses or profitable (like anything for dice or bioware now))


    edit- on LOD, you only needed an LOD key for multiplayer the original key was not needed until like 04 or 05, you just needed to have d2 installed before you could install LOD originally.
    Last edited by zanzabar; 06-16-2012 at 05:53 PM.
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    Expansion packs added depth and additional features to game where as DLC tends to just be extra maps, weapons, and or apparel that should be free like they used to be with patches.

    My biggest complaint (besides the price) with EA these days is Origin. I already have steam installed as do most other gamers and own EA games through it. But in order to play games like BF3 I have to use now use Origin. I will not install Origin and feed the greedy and controlling machine that is EA. Gee Mr. Moore I have no clue why people 'hate' EA surely it has nothing to do with how the company conducts business.

    Most companies want to have as many distribution channels as possible when you reduce those channels to one you will lose business and in most cases be forced to raise prices on your remaining customers. Unlike cigarettes the elasticity for EA games is not inelastic.
    Last edited by safan80; 06-16-2012 at 07:32 PM.


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    Let’s be clear. EA is a corporation and its primary concern is making money.
    Stopped reading here. EA is releasing same runner up craps every year for ADHD people. So not hating EA, they just do bad games.

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    So the meaning of the article is we should not be mad about EA trying to gouge us, because it is a publicly traded company which has to do so?

    Cool story, bro!

    Yes, the hate towards EA may be unreasonable at times, but this is because games are not products like anything else. And EA is not the only company feeling the gamers' wrath (*cough* Activision */cough*).

    Concerning DLCs:
    I'm fine with the concept of DLCs when the work for these DLCs is done after the development of the game. Then these really are "small" expansion packs. But I feel ripped off when I have to pay extra money to get features that are already programmed and finished in the game and only need to be unlocked. Then it is a hidden price increase.
    Notice any grammar or spelling mistakes? Feel free to correct me! Thanks

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    EA is a corporation and its primary concern is making money.
    Idiotic. All the videogame makers are concerned about money, but the respect for the consumer/gamer is not the same with EA or CD Projekt for example.

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    Quote Originally Posted by IGN
    This brand, this company, this group of people, creates some of the best and biggest games in the world with an average Metacritic rating that’s high and rising. It is profitable, but not outrageously so, and is under-valued by the stock market.
    Do they seriously expect people to believe EA didn't make them write this? I think they're are just desperate that shareholders don't notice management has destroyed the company and most of its valued IP. EA is hopeless, they barely make money despite having huge sports game cash cows. They have been hiding their failures from investors through constant acquisitions, I loathe most recent Activision games but at least that company provides value to it's investors and doesn't try to absorb every competitor.

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    ea has no scruples

    people want scruples

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    the entire gaming industry is changing. f2p, mobile gaming, in game item sales. i am hoping ea won't survive this wave for ruining many of my favorite franchise..

    and yes gaming journalism is a joke. how much money did ea pay ign to suck their junk?
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    So in short, EA knows it's hated, and it bribes IGN to prove everyone's point.

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    I hate EA so much for ruining Battlefield series
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by kiwi View Post
    I hate EA so much for ruining Battlefield series

    I almost hate EA for the same reason. I remember at E3 in 2011 on stage they were condemning Activision/Call of Duty about the premium version Elite. Saying BF3 will have everything for free and not have to pay $49.00 for stats/maps.
    I agreed with them and I never bought the Elite and extra maps. What do you know a year later and Battlefield has their own Premium service now. Yes I know it's cheaper then buying all maps, but still.

    I'm sorry yes I enjoy dlc (sometimes) but almost feel like it ruined gaming somehow. I remember COD 4 and the patch for the game would include the MP maps.


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    Quote Originally Posted by JAWS View Post
    I almost hate EA for the same reason. I remember at E3 in 2011 on stage they were condemning Activision/Call of Duty about the premium version Elite. Saying BF3 will have everything for free and not have to pay $49.00 for stats/maps.
    I agreed with them and I never bought the Elite and extra maps. What do you know a year later and Battlefield has their own Premium service now. Yes I know it's cheaper then buying all maps, but still.
    Jim Sterling has a rant on this: link here

    the main points
    1) Why are they asking EA why people "hate" EA?
    2) Some people "hate" them for the exact kind of hypocrisy pointed out in your post.

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    i like EA, i like their games

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    And even if it wasnt, even if we put that down to a temporary 'Mass Effect ending' negative blip that everyone has already forgotten about, there’s no doubt that ‘EA Hate’ is a thing.
    I stopped reading the article when I came to this comment. This guy is so clueless to actually believe that millions of mass effect fans somehow "forgot" about how EA and Bioware completely screwed the ending of one of the greatest video game stories of all time. Just because the shouting has died down, doesn't mean we're now going to run out and purchase more EA products.

    ...I sure wont.

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    Gave up on EA originally back in Medal Of Honor days. Tolerated them through multiple girlfriend's obsession with Sims. Gave them a second chance with BC2 and discovered they were still using PunkBuster; the original reason I wrote them off with MOH. They've shown they don't want my money anymore.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WangChung View Post
    Gave up on EA originally back in Medal Of Honor days. Tolerated them through multiple girlfriend's obsession with Sims. Gave them a second chance with BC2 and discovered they were still using PunkBuster; the original reason I wrote them off with MOH. They've shown they don't want my money anymore.
    Aside from the occasional bug what's wrong with Punkbuster? I've had very little issue with it. The times I did was because of either a bad internet connection (dropped packets) or PB needed updated.

    I recall going back and playing MOHAA online for kicks once and the stupid amount of cheaters made it not fun at all. I went back to CoD, CoD:UO, and CoD2.
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    Couldn't happen to a 'better' company

    Stock Ticker: Why EA's Market Valuation Has Crashed, courtesy of gamesindustry.biz
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha0ne View Post
    Couldn't happen to a 'better' company

    Stock Ticker: Why EA's Market Valuation Has Crashed, courtesy of gamesindustry.biz
    And thats what i like about EA, they know how to destroy their company.
    EA have bought and hammered down several good gaming companies, also they have ruined games allready in development of companies they have bought.

    EA deserves decreased Market Valuation, but also they deserve bankruptcy for what they have done to several games and gaming companies.

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    Next article: Why do people "hate" IGN?

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    Shouldn't this thread and the Origin thread be merged.......

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    This is all just a cheap stunt by ea to lift their image, trouble is the less intelligent amongst us will believe every word
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