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Thread: Gtx 670 ???

  1. #1
    Xtreme Mentor PatRaceTin's Avatar
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    Cool Gtx 670 ???

    Wow this 670 beat 7970 with lower price?

    http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/47...ew/index3.html
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  2. #2
    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    That's just a reference 670, it gets better when you look at non reference ones. Unlike the 680, the non reference 670s use a small HS/fin assembly that is NOT vapor chamber design. It actually runs hotter than the 680.

    However some non reference 670s will equal or beat the stock 680 performance wise, yet run quite cool, like the Palit, ASUS and Zotac. I like the ASUS best. It's another in their Direct CU II line, but unlike the 570 DCU II, it's dual vs triple slot. It's noise output is only 25db at load, with a temp of 74c. With a slight bump in fan speed it would still be very quiet and probably stay within 70c.

    The ASUS DCU II GTX 670 is the only GPU to ever get a perfect 10/10 score at TechPowerUp.

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    Are there any 670's with a lifetime warranty? EVGA usually has em, but Newegg says they don't...
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    Evga no longer offer lifetime warranty. It's now 3 years but transferable


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  5. #5
    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thegoatman View Post
    Are there any 670's with a lifetime warranty? EVGA usually has em, but Newegg says they don't...
    Seems there's been a running change in the GPU industry in general on warranties. Typically if you don't see EVGA offer one stock, no one does, but a tech at Zotak claims EVGA offers one for an additional charge. BTW, Zotac only offers 2 years even on their 670 AMP, but 3 if you register it on their site.

    Me, I don't just look at warranties, it can be misleading. Car manufacturers like Hyundai have 10 year warranties, but that doesn't mean they'll last longer than ones with much shorter warranty periods. I look at brands that have a good track record for partnering closely enough with their main chip suppliers to get good volume and pricing, but most importantly good bin selection on the GPU and VRAM. EVGA does, but so does ASUS, and lately ASUS is offering better non reference designs.

  6. #6
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    I know warranty =/= quality, but with evga, I have heard legend of their free upgrade on bad cards thing.
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    Registered User snoebels's Avatar
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    I am wondering if some of the cards could be unlocked to a GTX 680 like the GTX 465 did.

  8. #8
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frag Maniac View Post
    That's just a reference 670, it gets better when you look at non reference ones.
    Yup, this ones the best:

    http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/graphi...gtx-670-ex-oc/









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  9. #9
    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
    Yup, this ones the best...
    Clever avatar, took a second to catch on to the hidden meaning. LOL

    That may be the best non reference in your area at a good price, but I don't feel it's the best non ref 670 overall that I've seen so far.

    The Zotac AMP is the fastest out of the box that I've seen so far, but when you consider it's massive triple slot cooler, issues with loose HS screws, Zotac's lesser rep for reliability, and noise levels, the ASUS TOP could likely match if not beat it with a slight OC and increase in fan speed.

    I compared the benches from the games in your examples to those of TechPowerUp's review of the ASUS TOP on the same games. I didn't just compare FPS on like res charts either. Since there's slightly different res examples used (1200vs 1080), and slightly different clock speeds (52MHz), I compared the percentage of increase over the reference 670 on each set of benches.

    On the 5 like games tested, the ASUS averaged a 8.7% increase, the KAF a 5.7% increase. Other than that the load temp of the KAF is 77c to 74c on the ASUS. The ASUS is also quieter at load, producing 25db to the KAF's 37db. Lastly, KAF didn't even put HSs on the RAM, relying on the fans blowing through an already plenty warm GPU HS to do the job by itself.

    The KAF looks better than the Palit, and certainly better than the Gigabyte non ref 670, but the ASUS TOP beats it, and at only $420 it's a pretty good deal.

  10. #10
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    Yea the Zotac AMP may be better now, I only just saw that one. It uses the same frequencies as the KFA2 / Galaxy. But I simply dont trust Zotac, Palit or Gainward, some of their past custom designs have been terrible and actually worse than the Nvidia reference design, I'd rather go for a reputable brand.

    KFA2 is basically BFGs European facilities having been bought out by Galaxy, they have a UK based RMA centre and have very quickly risen to the third best recommended brand in the UK after EVGA and Gigabyte. And their custom designs are top class.

    In the UK, on launch of these cards the KFA2 and Gigabyte are the best models. Both overclock identically, to around 1250-1350 Mhz depending on luck, but for out of the box performance the Galaxy / KFA2 has a 1006 base clock and 1215 boost clock, while the Gigabyte has 980 base and 1189 boost.

    The Asus top is only 6 + 6 pins, I'm not certain if it can match the frequencies of the 8 + 6 pin models.

    Also neither the Asus or Zotac AMP are available yet, on launch only the Gigabyte and Galaxy custom designs were available.

    __________________

    Also I'm getting a free GPU keyring for buying the KFA2:

    http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showpr...odid=GX-027-KF

    They removed the GTX 670 from the promotional offer because they didnt have enough of the keyrings, but when I ordered mine it was still advertised as being eligible so I got one posted yesterday after complaining
    Last edited by bhavv; 05-11-2012 at 09:41 PM.
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  11. #11
    Technician PiLsY's Avatar
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    The non reference designs seem to be clocking the same or lower in reviews from what ive seen around the web. I havent seen one clocking better yet.

    Dont get carried away, if youre on air and probably water too then the reference designs may be the best choice. Low tdp is coming into play here I'd suggest. I wouldnt limit yourself to just custom pcb's unless youre going extreme, gpu lottery will still be the limiting factor.

  12. #12
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    GPU temperatures need to be kept below 70 degrees to stop the card from automatically reducing GPU speed and voltage. Good luck with that on a reference card clocked to over 1200 Mhz.

    The Gigabyte / Galaxy / Zotac that have out of the box boost clocks of 1189 - 1215 Mhz are worth it just for the guarantee of having those clocks speeds running stable and cool. In the US the prices are identical on these cards to the reference design, and if you want to water cool then the gigabyte is using a reference GTX 680 pcb.

    I don't understand why any enthusiast, or anyone wanting to overclock would pick the reference design, the reference GTX 670s are pretty terrible.
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  13. #13
    Technician PiLsY's Avatar
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    I didnt mean reference cooling, I meant reference pcb...very different . Kind of assumed that went without saying

    Even so reviews show complete reference designs hitting the same if not higher clocks. Clearly not 24/7, but the capability on the reference pcb seems higher seeing as the same sites are achieving lower clocks with the non reference designs.

    Everything I have is watercooled so I kinda forget to take into account that people may run the reference cooling, I wouldnt even consider it .
    Last edited by PiLsY; 05-12-2012 at 11:57 AM.

  14. #14
    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    I think bhavv makes a good point. Custom PCBs generally come on non ref models, and by extension, the ref coolers are nowhere near as good as the vapor type 680 cooler. Even if that wasn't what he was emphasizing, it's still relevant. However I don't necessarily agree with his assessment on dual 6 pin vs 8+6 on this GPU model. As low as the power consumption is on these chips, it has a lot to do with temps vs power regarding OCing ability.

    The ASUS TOPs default fan speed is pretty low at only 25db load. Cranking it up a bit yields little if any added noise and could probably maintain that 70c threshold talked about. Ultimately it depends what speed you want to maintain your GPU at, but if you're only looking to match the performance of the best factory card, I think the TOP could do that. Keep in mind match doesn't always mean same clock speed. Sometimes you get same performance with slightly lower speed if the temps are better.

    Anyways, I'm rating, as I always do, on overall quality, performance, features, and value. The Zotac may currently have the fastest out of the box performance, but at what price. It not only costs more, it's probably less reliable, AND takes up more space. As is said in Blade Runner, sometimes "The light that burns twice as bright, burns half as long". I also believe in paying for product vs factory clock settings. LOTS of non ref cards can be taken beyond their settings, and usually it's the ones set the highest that have the least overhead for OCing.
    Last edited by Frag Maniac; 05-12-2012 at 01:58 PM.

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    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    I think I'm going to return mine under DSR for a Gigabyte windforce instead, at stock settings its exceeding 70 degrees in a few minutes of heaven, and throttling my GPU speed and voltage.

    That shouldnt be happening on these coolers, and I also noticed a dent in the corner of the heatsink on the one I got when I tried reseating it.

    I reseated the cooler and added a side fan, and the maximum temperature at full fan speed reduced by 5 degrees, but 70+ degrees and throttling at stock speeds? This isnt happening on other peoples gigabyte cards.

    The Asus version is due to be released in 2 days time time too, but its only 6+6 pin, and doesnt have a higher factory ocerclock, plus its more expensive than the Gigabyte.

    No this just cant be right, even with the fan set to 60% its still reaching 70 degrees and throttling the card at stock settings:

    Last edited by bhavv; 05-13-2012 at 11:40 PM.
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    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    You sure about that? The benches I looked at showed Giga's model producing worse temps than reference cards. Take a look at TechPowerUp's review on the ASUS TOP. It's the only GPU they've ever given a perfect 10 score to.

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    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    Its ok now, I correctly reseated the cooler on mine (I used too much thermal paste the first time):

    http://i.imgur.com/1FEUU.png

    Down to 62-63 degrees at 1250 Mhz, and no more throttling with a lower fan speed. 60% speed should be fine now for stock, and 65-70% for 1250 Mhz. Nvidias boost clock throttle on these cards if they reach 70 degrees is stupid. I'm going to be emailing KFA2 support to somehow try to get it removed, but I dont think that they can remove that.

    I'm not bothered about the clock speed, 1250 Mhz is more than enough and the vram is working at 7350 Mhz. I just dont want such a mild max OC being throttled to 1223 Mhz due to the card hitting 70 degrees.
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  18. #18
    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    I'm not sure I'd want to go THAT high on the mem clock with no HSs on the RAM, whether it's made by the UK division of BFG or not. That app only measures GPU temps.

  19. #19
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frag Maniac View Post
    I'm not sure I'd want to go THAT high on the mem clock with no HSs on the RAM, whether it's made by the UK division of BFG or not. That app only measures GPU temps.
    I've backed it down to +600 / 7200 Mhz now as it was artifacting in 3D mark 11.

    Techpowerup got a Zotac AMP and Asus DCUII (both cherry picked no doubt) that went up to 7560 Mhz on the memory

    http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Z...dition/31.html

    These GTX 670s are overclocking like beasts on the ram, the lowest I've seen them manage is 6800-6850 Mhz, and most manage 7000-7200 easilly.

    Quote Originally Posted by PiLsY View Post
    gpu lottery will still be the limiting factor.
    I lost on the lottery, nice custom version, average 1250 Mhz GPU. But its still plenty fast enough. 1350 Mhz capable GK104s are extrememly rare, but if you do get one having it on a custom full length card will give it a lot more stability and lower temps on air.

    Getting a 1350 Mhz GPU slapped on a reference design would be sad. At least a lot of manufacturers are cherry picking 1200 Mhz chips for their custom cards, but then you will still most likely get an average GPU with a >1250 <1300 Mhz maximum like mine.
    Last edited by bhavv; 05-13-2012 at 11:50 PM.
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  20. #20
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    This is why you simply just dont buy the reference edition of this card:

    http://www.vortez.net/articles_pages..._review,5.html




    Vs custom coolers:







    Regardless of how much anyone loves their hot air being exhausted out the back of their case, with these GTX 670s just. dont. get. the. reference.

    84+ degrees on the reference when slightly overclocked:



    All the custom coolers are <75 degrees. I'd imagine they can all get the temperatures down to below 70 degrees like my KFA2 can with a higher fan profile and a heatsink reseat. Keeping GTX 670 temperatures under 70 degrees = no thermal throttling.
    Last edited by bhavv; 05-14-2012 at 01:56 AM.
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  21. #21
    Xtreme Addict Chickenfeed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frag Maniac View Post
    You sure about that? The benches I looked at showed Giga's model producing worse temps than reference cards.
    Curious where you saw this info. I have a DCII on pre order but I've been tempted to just get the gigabyte because its in stock now. I have a hard time believing 3 fans and a fullcover heatsink can't out performance the horrible reference cooler. I'm only going to be running it at out of the box settings so noise level is my only real concern ( and yes I know the DCII units are quiet, I've owned 2 of them so far and have been impressed; the 3 slot versions anyways )

    - http://www.pureoverclock.com/review.php?id=1506&page=17

    Only site I've managed to hunt down with much in the way of temp info.
    Last edited by Chickenfeed; 05-14-2012 at 06:28 AM.
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  22. #22
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    Gigabytes cooler is the best, everyone that already has this cooler on the GTX 670 or 680 are reporting maximum load temperatures of 60 degrees or less at 1250 Mhz.

    My KFA2 is running at 66 degrees at 1250 Mhz with a higher fan speed, and it wont be able to stay <70c in summer. The KFA2 / Galaxy cooler really could have used either an extra heatpipe or direct contact pipes like the gigabyte and Asus coolers.

    OCUK already accepted my RMA request, but its £10 to post it back, and £5 more for the Gigabyte, or £10 more for the Asus so it isnt worth it for the sake of a few degrees. It would be better to just buy some better thermal paste for that much money and reseat the cooler again.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by bhavv View Post
    Regardless of how much anyone loves their hot air being exhausted out the back of their case, with these GTX 670s just. dont. get. the. reference.

    84+ degrees on the reference when slightly overclocked:
    So far this is not the case for my eVGA GTX 670. Overclocked to 140+ GPU offset (1279MHz boost) it would not go higher than 74C, and this is running Heaven all settings maxed. In regular gaming its no higher than mid-60's.

    This is with the auto fan curve set to 1:1 matching with temps.
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  24. #24
    Xtreme Enthusiast Frag Maniac's Avatar
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    I can't find the review on the Giga I was referring to, though it may have been a bad unit they got hold of. I'd prefer to hold out until someone like TechPowerUp reviews it before I trust it to be good though. You can't go wrong with an ASUS TOP though, and reviewers don't need to "cherry pick" them. ASUS does the cherry picking themselves by paying for top binned GPUs and RAM before they build them. And I'm not surprised you found super high mem OCing results on it, it's the same review I read and referred to. That card is extremely well cooled. Runs at only 25db at a factory OCed load too, so you could easily step up the fan a bit and get even better results.

    Bhavv, do you have room under your GPU HS to stick some RAM sinks on the mem? You've already taken it apart twice anyway.

    As for hotter ref rear exhaust cards vs cooler propeller fan cards, don't forget you have radiant heat coming off that 84c+ card too, and a lot of these non ref coolers could easily sustain a 70c limit with the right tweaking. A radiant differential of 14c is quite a bit, and with many cases now having side intake fans and top exhaust fans like mine does, you'd never see any more heat buildup. You'd also have less heat pouring out of your PC, which can raise the ambient temp of the air your PC pulls in.
    Last edited by Frag Maniac; 05-14-2012 at 12:22 PM.

  25. #25
    Xtreme Mentor bhavv's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteor|WAR View Post
    So far this is not the case for my eVGA GTX 670. Overclocked to 140+ GPU offset (1279MHz boost) it would not go higher than 74C, and this is running Heaven all settings maxed. In regular gaming its no higher than mid-60's.

    This is with the auto fan curve set to 1:1 matching with temps.
    EVGA are not using the GTX 670 reference heatsink. They are using the GTX 680 heatsink on all their reference design GTX 670s.

    +1 reputation for EVGA.

    Heres a reference cooler comparison I found / edited:




    And the EVGA card is taken appart here:

    http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/artic...-Review/1549/2

    Actually I dont think thats a GTX 680 heatsink, its just a bit better built and using a vapor chamber compared to the reference heatsink.
    Last edited by bhavv; 05-14-2012 at 02:36 PM.
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