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Thread: Silver and nickel don't mix???

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    Xtreme Addict iboomalot's Avatar
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    Silver and nickel don't mix???

    Koolance's product warranty does not cover the use of 3rd-party coolants, coolant additives, or corrosion. Koolance LIQ-702 or LIQ-705 coolants are strongly recommended to help avoid issues with mixed metals or biological growth. Additionally, do not use aluminum with bare (unplated) copper or bare (unplated) brass in the same system. Do not use silver with nickel in the same system.

    Iam using distilled water with a komodo nickel/aceta 5870 block and a silver coil for algea control

    What could this do ??
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    Xtreme Addict Kayin's Avatar
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    Silver and nickel are roughly (rather roughly) the same distance apart as copper and aluminum. While nickel is a lot tougher than copper, it's still a poor idea galvanically speaking.

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    Xtreme Member AVulgarPicture's Avatar
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    Yeh I used to recommend distilled and silver, now I say distilled and pt nuke.
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    Xtreme Member ryan92084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AVulgarPicture View Post
    Yeh I used to recommend distilled and silver, now I say distilled and pt nuke.
    I'll just stick with still not recommending nickel

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    Xtreme Member earthwormjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
    Silver and nickel are roughly (rather roughly) the same distance apart as copper and aluminum. While nickel is a lot tougher than copper, it's still a poor idea galvanically speaking.
    That's simply untrue...

    Nickle and silver are EXTREMELY close together on the galvonic series. They're both pretty noble metals.

  6. #6
    Xtreme Addict Kayin's Avatar
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    And yet we find that in systems with silver and nickel, they tend to shed nickel more readily than not. Is it a rash of everyone can't plate nickel, or is it an issue with corrosion (and there are instances where metals that are very close together can still corrode.) Once a pinhole gets in that plating, whether from poor plating or from corrosion, what have you then the nickel and copper themselves will have an issue with each other. It's simply best to avoid nickel.

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    Xtreme Member earthwormjim's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
    And yet we find that in systems with silver and nickel, they tend to shed nickel more readily than not. Is it a rash of everyone can't plate nickel, or is it an issue with corrosion (and there are instances where metals that are very close together can still corrode.) Once a pinhole gets in that plating, whether from poor plating or from corrosion, what have you then the nickel and copper themselves will have an issue with each other. It's simply best to avoid nickel.
    The real problem with nickel plated blocks is the lack of any and all surface preparation, and sub industry standard plating thickness.

    I too avoid nickel plated blocks. The only plated blocks I'd consider would be ones professionally plated.

    Silver is not the problem, it's the poorly done nickel plating.
    Last edited by earthwormjim; 05-06-2012 at 06:05 PM.

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    I am Xtreme andressergio's Avatar
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    since use Bitspower TRUE SILVER barbs all my problems gone, 2 years using them now loops when take appart after months of use come clean as new


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    Xtreme Addict mlwood37's Avatar
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    True silver barbs = BOLLOCKS ..... No Such thing as "True Silver", true silver is just another marketing ploy / gimmick and if they were "Pure silver" they would be to soft to be used as a barb ... True placebo ...
    Last edited by mlwood37; 05-06-2012 at 07:50 PM.
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  10. #10
    Xtremely High Voltage Sparky's Avatar
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    Silver + copper here. I don't care for nickel plated stuff. Too much else to go wrong and it costs more anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    True silver barbs = BOLLOCKS ..... No Such thing as "True Silver", true silver is just another marketing ploy / gimmick and if they were "Pure silver" they would be to soft to be used as a barb ... True placebo ...
    Never held a .999 silver coin? It isnt soft.

  12. #12
    Xtreme Addict mlwood37's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MattC View Post
    Never held a .999 silver coin? It isnt soft.
    Coin silver is an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper. Therefore its millesimal fineness is 900, also known as one nine fine. Most United States silver coins are made of coin silver.

    And for the full quote off another web site ->

    Fine silver (99.9% pure) is too soft to use in jewelry or almost anything else because it bends, breaks, and stretches too much. For this reason, manufacturing jewelers and silversmiths mix copper with it to give it some strength without discoloring it. Copper is the industry standard. However, some countries use other alloys as well.

    When you see “.999 fine silver” or “999” stamped on an item, it is considered pure silver. It is softer and more malleable than sterling silver. It is used in bullion bars, and is also known as three nines fine.

    Sterling silver (also known as standard silver) is what jewelry and silverware are traditionally made from, which is 92.5% silver and 7.5% copper. That is why you sometimes see .925 stamped on your jewelry. In the U.S., only a minimum of 92.5% fine silver can be marketed as “silver.”

    Sterling silver jewelry is often plated with a thin coat of .999 fine silver to give the item a shiny finish (called “flashing”). Silver will tarnish unless an anti-tarnish coat is added. Rhodium is sometimes used for this thin coat because it is very shiny and never tarnishes. However, rhodium is a very expensive option compared to the silver finish.

    Coin silver is an alloy of 90% silver and 10% copper. Therefore its millesimal fineness is 900, also known as one nine fine. Most United States silver coins are made of coin silver.

    Junk silver is an informal term used in the United States, United Kingdom, Canada, and Australia for any silver coin which is in fair condition and has no numismatic or collectible value above the bullion value of the silver it contains. Such coins are popular among people seeking to invest in silver, particularly in small amounts. The word “junk” refers only to the value of the coins as collectibles and not to the actual condition of the coins. Also, junk silver isn’t necessarily scrap silver.

    A silver-plated item has a thin coating of silver deposited onto a base metal which has a lower value than silver. Once used as plating, silver cannot be easily recovered, so it is of no value to those who are accumulating silver as an investment. EPNS means electroplated nickel-silver and is sometimes stamped on silver-plated items.
    .999 Silver coins ware down and are used as trade items and are not for general use (there a soft metal) because of this fact.

    As for Chinese silver well lets just say there is no standard and they don't just use copper so your guess is as good as mine what it contains.
    Last edited by mlwood37; 05-06-2012 at 11:43 PM.
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  13. #13
    Technician PiLsY's Avatar
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    So silver plating wont shed ions well enough to act as a biocide? I'd never considered there would be a difference between the quality of silver used to plate them and the .999 coils given they are marketed as a replacement for coils. I actually presumed it would be basically completely pure as it was electro plated silver ions?

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    Xtreme Member basserdan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    True silver barbs = BOLLOCKS ..... No Such thing as "True Silver", true silver is just another marketing ploy / gimmick and if they were "Pure silver" they would be to soft to be used as a barb ... True placebo ...
    Try cutting a 3/16" thick slab of pure silver. It will wear you out!
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    Xtreme Member ryan92084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    True silver barbs = BOLLOCKS ..... No Such thing as "True Silver", true silver is just another marketing ploy / gimmick and if they were "Pure silver" they would be to soft to be used as a barb ... True placebo ...
    ...They never claim the whole barb is pure silver "■Silver Plated from .999 pure silver" and "true silver" is just the name of the product so of course its a mraketing ploy. I don't think there are galaxies/auroras in your premixes but it still sounds nice.

    Whether or not the barbs in question work i don't know but if you are going to bash a product at least have a sound footing to start on.

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    Xtreme Addict Kayin's Avatar
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    His footing is the fact that silver plating, silver pieces, whatever have far too little surface area contact with water to effectively create silver ions in the water, and they're in loops with less noble copper and brass, who are preferentially ionized, so that if you drained a loop with a silver coil in it you would get a small concentration of silver ions (from close contact with the coil/whatever) and much more copper ones (from the entire rest of the loop.) It's why silver used in the medical industry is in easily ionized substances, or else it's already broken down into microparticles. You could dose a loop with colloidal silver and it be far more effective, but the general reason you guys don't get issues with stuff growing in your loops is most likely your own care in putting stuff together and better sterilized water.

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    I am Xtreme andressergio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlwood37 View Post
    True silver barbs = BOLLOCKS ..... No Such thing as "True Silver", true silver is just another marketing ploy / gimmick and if they were "Pure silver" they would be to soft to be used as a barb ... True placebo ...
    they do have a tiny layer of silver yes


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    Now -I'm- concerned...
    I've got an all copper loop with a silver killcoil in it, but I do have nickel plated quick disconnects that route the hose to the outside of my case for my custom radbox. I've never even seen corrosion signs, and I'm using only distilled water. Recommendations? I could put some pt-nuke in it, if need be, but I do like the performance of pure water...
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    I am Xtreme zanzabar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
    Silver and nickel are roughly (rather roughly) the same distance apart as copper and aluminum. While nickel is a lot tougher than copper, it's still a poor idea galvanically speaking.
    silver has an electro negativity of 1.93, nickle is 1.91, copper is 1.90, brass is 1.92-1.93 and aluminum is 1.61. you need a difference of ~0.25-0.3 to have galvanic corrosion so this is not anything about silver and nickle not getting along (silver and copper are further apart, and copper and brass are about the same apart.) the only reason that they have this is to void warranties, and to get people to buy their BS fluid that will clog blocks and is highly profitable.

    you were thinking of gold, it has an electro negativity 2.54, so you should not really mix gold with copper, but the gold will move to the copper so it wont be a problem, but then silver will move to nickle so that should also not be a problem, especially since you should put a nickle layer before putting silver on a part.
    Last edited by zanzabar; 05-07-2012 at 12:22 PM.
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    I am Xtreme Manicdan's Avatar
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    so everything is good except aluminum really
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    I am Xtreme zanzabar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manicdan View Post
    so everything is good except aluminum really
    yes, but also no chrome or titanium.

    look at the chart
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electro...f_the_elements
    if the metal you want to use is under 1.70 dont use it.
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    Xtreme Member ryan92084's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kayin View Post
    His footing is the fact that silver plating, silver pieces, whatever have far too little surface area contact with water to effectively create silver ions in the water, and they're in loops with less noble copper and brass, who are preferentially ionized, so that if you drained a loop with a silver coil in it you would get a small concentration of silver ions (from close contact with the coil/whatever) and much more copper ones (from the entire rest of the loop.) It's why silver used in the medical industry is in easily ionized substances, or else it's already broken down into microparticles. You could dose a loop with colloidal silver and it be far more effective, but the general reason you guys don't get issues with stuff growing in your loops is most likely your own care in putting stuff together and better sterilized water.
    This is a much better argument and not the one he was making at all. I wasn't against his conclusion just the method to reach it.

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    Xtreme Addict mlwood37's Avatar
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    never been good at putting things into words . All though English is my main language its all so my nemesis.
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    Xtreme Mentor eXa's Avatar
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    Ive ran tap water with NO additive and just plain copper blocks for probably closer to a couple of years now... nothing growing so far. Last time i changed water was january, before that, maybe last summer...
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    I'm a solid copper advocate myself...

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