120mhz LCD refresh and how it impacts the GPU question

[WeaponX]

I've seen endless reviews on GPUs and they never talk about any impacts that running a 120mhz refresh rate would have on GPUs. I think under normal conditions, everyone's LCD monitor is running between 60-75mhz refresh rates so all the benchmark numbers are based off of that. I wish they'd start adding benchmark numbers at 120mhz refresh rate cause it's like night and day compared to 60mhz refresh rate and hopefully catching on.

So I'm wondering if any of you guys have some insight for my particular setup (which I wouldn't doubt would be the case for some others as well). Basically I'm thinking if I add another GTX 580 to my setup and run SLI I'll see a great increase in FPS and smoothness overall. I'm hoping I'll see a huge jump and not just a slight bump, anyone else have this odd dilema?

System info is in my sig.

[Allubz]

What is your real question?

Curious about adding second GTX580? Look up benchmarks.

Screen refresh rate has nothing to do with what the GPU sends data-wise. It's what the panel can show, so it has no impact whatsoever.

[WeaponX]

Screen refresh rate has nothing to do with what the GPU sends data-wise. It's what the panel can show, so it has no impact whatsoever.

Sorry, I guess I was just under the impression that if you run at a higher refresh rate that it'd directly impacted the GPU processing power.

[One_Hertz]

120mhz is quite an insane refresh rate! But yeah, it has no impact on GPU.

[WeaponX]

No wonder no one ever asked this question...sorry for wasting everyone time guys.

[ClockZ]

IMO if your going to run games even at 1920x1080 at 120hz and want to run high settings 2 high end cards are definitly needed, there is no single card at the moment that can get it done. 7970 and 680 are close to enough but still lacking. I have been running 120hz monitors since they came out and IMO if you don't keep minimum FPS above 100 its feels like crap.

[NEOAethyr]

This is my experience with higher ref rates.

It acts just like render frames ahead.
Essentially allows the gpu to render as many frames as possible, increasing fps, without the need to render the stuff ahead of time which causes input lag on some games menu's (there's a partial fix by using alternative rendering methods but I'm not sure if it's apossible to activate such thigns with the current driver rev's).
It may be possible that if the gpu doesn't have the power, it could slow down the fps rate a little..., just saying.

Also one more thing.
When mem benching in diff programs I've seen some minor decreases in bandwith using the higher the refresh rate.
It could of been how my software was configured, but still..., I just want you to know when you bench, using 60hz refresh rate gives you a slight advantage, though I never use it myself.
I keep mine set at the highest sustainable refresh at all times.

There's a major prob in terms of config's when it comes to higher refresh rates.
lots of games default top 60hz, so you'll need to pay attention to that, if it's possible to set in game doit, great... .
But the other times where the game plain defaults to the lamest refresh rate ever , you'll have to use a custom vga driver along with a custom monitor driver with edid override.

The custom vga driver ensures that certain standered modes that some games expect, are present, without the game will crash.
Some rare games are like that.
Also while limiting the ranges of such stuff...

And the custom monitor driver ensures that at all times, it forces the highest refresh rate.
It takes a little fiddling to get it working 99% lol, which is about where I got it, not 100% mind ya... lol.

It was probably pointless for me to say all this.

[WeaponX]

IMO if your going to run games even at 1920x1080 at 120hz and want to run high settings 2 high end cards are definitly needed, there is no single card at the moment that can get it done. 7970 and 680 are close to enough but still lacking. I have been running 120hz monitors since they came out and IMO if you don't keep minimum FPS above 100 its feels like crap.

This was the validation that I was looking for, I hope it's true!

[Chickenfeed]

I can mirror ClockZ's experiance. I stuck with a 1680x1050 so I could get away with a single 580 (sold my other one early on) for that reason. 1080 120Hz is the releam of multiple gpus without a doubt. 60fps just feels gross on a proper 120 display so if you can't consistently achieve framerates in the triple digits you'll either need to settle with lower IQ or in most cases, throw more money at the problem I since went with a 1080 60 display because I didn't want to have to deal with SLI again, as much as I do enjoy the fluidity of 120Hz

[Stevethegreat]

It was probably pointless for me to say all this.

No, not at all that. Actually I'm looking for a good 120Hz monitor and I already have the firepower (twin 680s) to support it.

My only fear is that games/apps won't be able to support such a high refresh rate and (they) are going to cap me at 60Hz or worse @ 30 FPS. That would be doubly a shame as games would look like cr@p at such frames/refresh rates in such a monitor AND my hardware (and the money I threw to it) is going to be wasted.... so really if you have any links for the things you're talking about or a place to start for a fellow who's just making his first steps on the 120Hz territory (it) would be trully appreciated ...

[CrazyNutz]

It's only going to affect performance if Vsync is used. Running vsync with a 120hz monitor will perform better (that is if your GPU can pump out 60 - 120fps) than vsync with a 60hz monitor.

Vsync is a way for programs/games to know when its safe (safe in terms of not tearing) to paint. i.e. if the game tries to update the screen while the monitor is in the middle of a refresh you will see the tear.

[NEOAethyr]

With my monitor, it's not a 120hz one but it does go higher then 60hz at 1920x1080.
It does 72hz vga, and 70hz dvi, I could probably push it a hair more if I worked at the timings a bit.

So I tried the cable mod, I didn't want to screw up my brand new (at the time) dvi cable.
So I modded the vga cable that came with the monitor.
I just broke a pin off to get rid of the edid support.
It worked, but but not that well, I don't remember what it was doing now really...

So I found a program to mod the edid, it makes a driver/inf for the monitor, and you can bypass and use a custom edid with that, no hard mods needed, no flashing anything...
http://entechtaiwan.com/util/moninfo.shtm

I used the above program to make a inf with an edid override, which I tweaked a bit with the info I got from the older nvidia driver custom res/timing cpl.
I took that cpl info and essentially pasted it into that program somehow or another, it just needed a tiny adjustment form there and there I had it .


Another thing I used to do, but not at the moment....

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.AddReg]
HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-83, 56-75, -,-"

[MODE1]
HKR,,MaxResolution,,"1920,1080"

The above lines in the inf are easy to find, easy to mod.
One of the polarity things above never works, it always ended up setting -,+ or something like that, it's a bug since 2k at least.
I haven't checked in some time, but maybe the edid info in the inf fixes that I'm not sure, whatever.
Anyways to the point.
From the above lines you can set the min refresh rate supported.
And back in the day, this used to be the way of forcing games to a higher refresh rate.

Take an old school monitor for example.
Say it does 1024x768 @ 75hz.
But it does 640x480 at 120hz.
max supported would be 120hz, min perhaps 75hz.
You wouldn't want it forcing that high of a refresh with the higher res.

You can essentially tweak the refresh rates up for the other direction, horizontal?, so it's allowed to go to the lower refresh only at a higher speed, ie the higher res.
It takes a little while to tinker with.

I figure I'll post the info just incase someone needs it.
Because in the beginning, when win7 just came out, i thought I was stuck with low refresh rates.

If you get a 120hz monitor it's likely you won't need a custom edid override.
And most games these days are pretty good about letting you adjust the refresh rate some way or another.

However, back with xp/2k3, a custom driver with v/h rate tweaks was needed in order to enforce specific vertical refresh rates.

Other then all that stuff, all I can think of is monitor adjustment, and maintenance/service mode.
Adjustment isn't that hard, but the finer details are a bit tricky to perfect, mine is close enough and I left it be.
The blacks, whites, etc etc...
Some websites/test patterns help with that stuff.

The service mode, not for normal peeps.
But sometimes to really get the monitor to look decent, you sometimes need to fiddle with it :|.
In which case be careful, write down everything that you see in that mode ^^, so you can back track if needed...
Check the monitor 1st for dead pixels and so on before even attempting to get into service mode, it'll void warranty.
And again I don't recommend for the avg person, but I just figure I should at least mention what I do when I get a new monitor and have had it for a week or so .

Here's my driver as as example:

[Version]
Signature	= "$WINDOWS NT$"
Class		= Monitor
ClassGUID	= {4d36e96e-e325-11ce-bfc1-08002be10318}
Provider	= %MFG%
DriverVer	= 06/18/2010, 1.0.0.1

[DestinationDirs]
DefaultDestDir=23

[SourceDisksNames]
1=%DISC%

[SourceDisksFiles]
;YourColorProfileFile.icm

[Manufacturer]
%VENDOR%	= EDID_OVERRIDE, NTx86, NTamd64

[EDID_OVERRIDE.NTx86]
%PRODUCTID%	= OVERRIDDEN-EDID.Install, MONITOR\GSM56EF

[EDID_OVERRIDE.NTamd64]
%PRODUCTID%	= OVERRIDDEN-EDID.Install.NTamd64, MONITOR\GSM56EF

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.Install.NTx86.HW]
AddReg=OVERRIDDEN-EDID_AddReg

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.Install.NTamd64.HW]
AddReg=OVERRIDDEN-EDID_AddReg

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.Install.NTx86]
DelReg		= DEL_CURRENT_REG
AddReg		= OVERRIDDEN-EDID.AddReg, MODE1, DPMS
CopyFiles	= OVERRIDDEN-EDID.CopyFiles

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.Install.NTamd64]
DelReg		= DEL_CURRENT_REG
AddReg		= OVERRIDDEN-EDID.AddReg, MODE1, DPMS
CopyFiles	= OVERRIDDEN-EDID.CopyFiles

[DEL_CURRENT_REG]
HKR,MODES
HKR,EDID_OVERRIDE
HKR,,MaxResolution
HKR,,DPMS
HKR,,ICMProfile

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.AddReg]
HKR,"MODES\1920,1080",Mode1,,"30-83, 56-75, -,-"

[MODE1]
HKR,,MaxResolution,,"1920,1080"

[DPMS]
HKR,,DPMS,,1

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID.CopyFiles]
;YourColorProfileFile.icm

[OVERRIDDEN-EDID_AddReg]
HKR,EDID_OVERRIDE,"0",0x01,0x00,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0xFF,0x00,0x1E,0x6D,0xEF,0x56,0x0B,0x5F,0x06,0x00,0x08,0x13,0x01,0x04,0xA1,0x33,0x1D,0x78,0xEA,0xEE,0x91,0xA3,0x54,0x4C,0x99,0x26,0x0F,0x50,0x54,0xA7,0x6B,0x80,0xB3,0x00,0x81,0x8F,0x81,0x80,0x71,0x4F,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x01,0x44,0x3F,0x80,0xA0,0x70,0x38,0x1F,0x40,0x30,0x20,0x35,0x00,0x10,0x2B,0x42,0x00,0x00,0x18,0x02,0x3A,0x80,0x18,0x71,0x38,0x2D,0x40,0x58,0x2C,0x45,0x00,0xFE,0x22,0x11,0x00,0x00,0x1E,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFD,0x00,0x38,0x4B,0x1E,0x53,0x0F,0x00,0x0A,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x00,0x00,0x00,0xFC,0x00,0x57,0x32,0x33,0x35,0x33,0x0A,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x20,0x00,0x67


[Strings]
MFG		= "Life's Good"
MODEL		= "W2353V-PF"
DISC		= "LG W2353V-PF Monitor Installation Disk"
PRODUCTID	= "W2353V-PF"
VENDOR		= "Life's Good"

;70hz is the max you can get away with on a dvi with this monitor, on vga you can go to at least 72 or 75hz.
;either that or my vga driver is scaling 72hz wrong on dvi...

;1920x1080x32@60hz:
;148.500	Pixal Clock
;1920	1920	Horizontal Front End Active
;2008	88	Horizontal Front Porch
;2052	44	Horizontal Sync Width
;2200	148	Horizontal Back Porch	
;1080	1080	Vertical Front End Active
;1084	4	Vertical Front Porch
;1089	5	Vertical Sync Width
;1125	36	Vertical Back Porch

;1920x1080x32@70hz:
;161.960	Pixal Clock
;1920	1920	Horizontal Front End Active
;1968	48	Horizontal Front Porch
;2000	32	Horizontal Sync Width
;2080	80	Horizontal Back Porch
;1080	1080	Vertical Front End Active
;1083	3	Vertical Front Porch		1, 1081 (old)
;1088	5	Vertical Sync Width		1086 old, makes the value 3
;1111	23	Vertical Back Porch		28, 1114 (old), off by 5, it might of been better at -2...

;1920x1080x32@72hz: (OLD)
;211.440	Pixal Clock
;1920	1920	Horizontal Front End Active
;2056	136	Horizontal Front Porch
;2264	208	Horizontal Sync Width
;2608	344	Horizontal Back Porch
;1080	1080	Vertical Front End Active
;1081	1	Vertical Front Porch		off by 2, 1083
;1084	3	Vertical Sync Width		off by 2, 1088
;1126	42	Vertical Back Porch		the value is probably 38..., 1126


;Clock:	50-1
;Phase:	69	Monitor resets this during auto tune

;Service Mode:
;While powered off, press and hold the Menu and Fun buttons, then power on.
;After powered on press the Menu button for the service menu.

;;;Defaults:
;W2x53V
;TSUM088 VER 1.69
;090511 JSH ETI. 35

;CLEAR ETI:	NO
;AUTO COLOR:	NO
;AGING:		OFF
;PANEL:		LGD2301080
;NVRAM INIT:	NO
;HPD TIME:	500
;9300		R98 G104 B128
;6500		R128 G128 B128
;OFFSET		R146 G138 B141
;GAIN		R96 G95 B94


;Preference:
;9300		R112 G112 B112
;6500		R128 G128 B128
;OFFSET		R140 G140 B140
;GAIN		R96 G96 B96
;
;Brightness: 32
;Contrast: 48
;Gamme -50
;Clock:	50-1
;Phase:	69	Monitor resets this during auto tune
;
;Phase: 82	Allows seen secret images, seems to be the clearest to be onest
;Phase 79 seems to actually have the best noise reduction but is the blurriest, I need a digital cable lol

;	red	green	blue
;9300	112	112	112
;6500	128	128	128
;offset	112	112	112
;gain	110	110	110

[WeaponX]

I got the MSI GTX 580 on Sat and gamed all day Sunday, I'm happy to report that I'm liking the results. All the odd "studders" while playing MW3 have pretty much disappeared (I blame the rest on network lag), no more lag at all when I encounter other players (happened at odd times here and there but no longer). One thing I would have to say, man the temps have jumped lol, need to find blocks or something to counter this all.

I can't wait for Blops 2, Guild Wars 2 and Diablo 3! going to be one exciting year for PC gaming imo and I'M READY