Mass Effect 3: What do you REALLY think about the ending?

[Ket]

We all know the backlash Bioware and EA have got over the ending to ME3, and I dare say they should of stuck to the original script after the leak (whatever the script was, anybody have a link?). I doubt anyone from EA or Bioware dare walk around without armed bodyguard at this time through fear of assassination attempts from infuriated fans. To the point in hand however; what do you REALLY think to ME3s ending? If I'm honest I think the ending blows balls, HOWEVER I am completely fine with the bitter-sweet ending approach. I DO want a ending with proper continuity and one that makes sence with all the loose ends tied up though in the DLC. It would also be nice to have endings that actually take into account all my choices over the other 2 games. Also, why is it yu never actually get to meet Shepards mum? and what happen to that alcoholic you helped in the first Mass Effect game and that marine you stopped from blowing some scientist away who was attacked by a thresher maw?

So many loose ends and continuity problems...

[Frag Maniac]

Morally I think they misled their fans quite a bit making them assume there would be drastically different outcomes and that all that time spent carefully molding your character in one way or another would matter a lot. Legally they can escape punishment however, because as minutely as each ending differs from one another, they still differ, and technically that's all they promised, different outcomes affected by your decisions,. They never said HOW different. Well, know we know.

Aside from that there's just some things about the endings that don't make sense, like all the Mass Relays being destroyed causing countless numbers of all races of people to be stranded and/or cutoff from vital resources, trade routes, etc. It made it feel like doomsday regardless of the choice you picked. They've been insistent on not changing the ending, so I don't know what they hope to accomplish with added cutscenes and details, because clearly they've already made too many blunders to excuse some things away.

As I've said before though, I can never take the stories of most RPGs too seriously, because most are fundamentally flawed throughout, this one being no exception. Supposedly the Reapers exist to keep organics from destroying themselves, yet they wiped out all but one of the most advanced, ancient races in the galaxy, the Protheans. The Protheans weren't exactly barbaric like the Krogans either, quite a bit more intelligent and diplomatic in fact.

Rather than talk diplomatically to advise organics of the dangers of their ways, the Reapers strike them down with ruthlessness, which is far more chaotic than the so called chaos they're accusing all organics of. The Bible speaks of the wrath of God at times, but these are machines, do they take their cues from God? They should conduct themselves rationally and logically, instead they spread chaos themselves.

Does not the very story's own telling indicate that the way the Reapers do things only causes endless cycles of bloodshed, vs teaching organics to be more civil as their intent implies? So to perpetuate these cycles as if it's the only way is just to condone endless chaos, which they're always preaching against. They don't even so much as TRY to create non violent colonies with those they harvest, they're just more fodder for their killing machine.

Now even with that dichotomy, it could have still made some sense had they at least fleshed out the origin of the Reapers. For instance if there were say an ancient race the Protheans came from that created the Reapers to keep organics from amassing too much military strength to avoid large scale wars, then you could at least excuse the fact that the Reapers were programmed to repeat these endless cycles of ruthless population control and harvesting without provocation, but as it exists, the core of the story does not make sense.

Harbinger:
"You are weak, you're no match for my strength Shepard."

Shepard:
"Yeah right, piss me off and make me violent to excuse your anti chaos crusade. You'd make a great politician. Who was it that made you guys?"

What would be funny is a ME cartoon where Shepard has dialog with Reapers and Collectors with Paragon reply options where he talks them into having a Halex or two and they all shake hands and have a laugh about the old chaos days.

Shepard:
"Remember when you were like, no this is for your own good, and I was like, I like OUR chaos better than YOUR chaos bub!"

Reapers/Collectors:
"Yes, those were the good old days."

Funny how this sounds amusing but is the best and most practical outcome. Everyone keeps their individuality but just learns to get along with one another. I call it the Integration option.

Grade school teacher:
"Kids, we have a new classmate I'd like to introduce, his name is Johnny, and he's a Reaper."

Class:

[Ket]

I agree, honestly though as "unreasonable" as it sounds Bioware MUST plug the holes in the ME3 story properly if they are to have any chance of salvaging a single scrap of their reputation. Its not something that would really be too hard to do it would just require DLC content worming in (probably) parts of the original script to explain everything. ONe thing I was hugely let down by was Aria, shes WAY too powerful of a character to only have the tiny ty bit in the game she did. Instead of all that bloody boring errand tasks talking to people to unite the mercs I was expecting to take a trip to Omega with Aria, she becomes part of your landing party and you kick in Omegas front door and take it back. The mission might of been a little cliche but it would of been 1000x better than the crappy "go talk to these people.." we all got.

[Frag Maniac]

Yeah Aria did seem a bit bold for someone you only have casual conversations with, esp the way she says Omega's only rule is don't F**k with her.

I was thinking after I posted the lengthy response above that some might refute parts of it. Meaning in ME2 they mention that the Protheans weren't in fact wiped out. Well IMO if you're going to steal the tech and intelligence of a race only to make them unwilling slaves for your cause ala the Collectors, they'd actually have been better off just getting COMPLETELY wiped out. Reapers don't just create chaos, they practically define it, in a very heinous way.

Also, am I just forgetting it, or did Javik never mention in all his angst driven comments toward the Reapers in ME3, that his people were turned into Collector slaves? If he didn't know it when he came out of stasis, why with all his psychic abilities did he not see such things in Shepard's mind when he tapped into his thoughts?

[Ket]

I'm pretty sure Javik already knows, the subject is sort of glossed over. In a single scentance Javik says something along the lines of "We were all harvested". The conversation comes up eventually if you visit him a lot and that single scentance is all you hear about Javik knowing they were being "repurposed", so its easy to miss. The hint is also there he knew about the "repurposing" on the mission you get him because of the cutscenes where you see him shooting at the collectors. I missed having a krogan on my crew in ME3 as well. Having Wrex or Grunt back would of been awesome, Grunt grew on me the more I played ME2. Having a new Drell character would of been good too, interesting species which Bioware barely scratched the surface of in ME2. Whats the deal with characters you shagged in ME2 having nothing to really do with you in ME3 as well? I shagged Miranda in ME2 yet she doesn't give a crap in ME3. I would of thought the fact you started a relationship with her would be reason enough for her to join your crew after dealing with her stuff.

The more I analyse ME3s story, the more I begin to hate Bioware

[DeltZ]

Yeah poor exposition on the ending. If the ending is taken as is, you're totally right about all the discontinuities etc. This is why I'm just holding onto indoctrination theory as the ending I want as a fan of the series. Yeah it's unlikely they put so much of a gamble on storyline on something like that. We'll see what extra stuff they'll release in the ending extensions.
Didn't like the whole normandy flying away and new planet ending, thought that was lame. That and total lack of character closure, if there's one thing I care about in ME3 it's the characters. Ending their story arcs in the way they did was totally unsatisfying. Regarding god child and all that, I'm ok with that depending on the true nature of god child; indoctrination theory poses that the boy is actually just a visual metaphor for Shepard becoming indoctrinated himself (disappears at the beginning in vents, has to climb on the transport ship himself while no one seems to notice him, before being "killed", occurs in all the dreams and finally embodied in god child...Human numbers and writing in final areas on citadel, there are SO many discontinuities that suggest we should reject what God child leads us to believe)

Have you looked into indoctrination theory? I'd like to know your opinion on it:

http://social.bioware.com/forums/for...ndex/9727423/1

[Frag Maniac]

Yeah I guess I forgot about Javik's mention of their race having been harvested, but more importantly the creatures fighting them in his memories being Collectors.

Honestly I care more about the nuances of the races and some of the character development within each installment than the story itself. As mentioned they didn't even carry over characters well from one installment to the next, so I wasn't surprised that the story wasn't well fleshed out, esp the series ending.

I can't imagine having a relationship with Miranda though, Ashley was bad enough. I hooked up with her in ME1, then at Horizon in ME2 after showing her get paralyzed by the swarm in the intro cutscene for that mission, she somehow miraculously shows up unscathed AFTER all the fighting is done. Then when telling you off after practically worshiping you she gives you that cross eyed look of cynicism.

Miranda truly is a full of herself "cheerleader" as Jack implies though. When you first encounter her and ask details of her life she talks about how perfect she is. Last play through, I think it was when I got back from Jack's loyalty mission, her and Jack went at it. I didn't have enough paragon points to talk them down, so I had to side with one or the other, leaving one without loyalty.

I chose Jack, because at the end of the day, I can't stand some of Miranda's subordinate griping, and she's always acting like she's invincible in battle, advancing at bad times and getting herself killed. Other times she's wise enough to stay back behind cover, but usually I have to send her to a spot well away from fire, and then she often doesn't have a line on some of the enemies.

Jack and Samara have very strong biotic powers, esp Jack's full strength Shockwave, but I like that Samara can also pack an assault rifle. Another effective pairing is Mordin and Garrus. Mordin is usually pretty smart about taking cover, and I love his comments. When rallying them he'll say "Indeed!", and he'll often confuse his cryo with incendiary and say "flammable, or inflammable, forget which, doesn't matter."

As for the indoctrination theory, I don't get into such discussions, because quite frankly if you have to fill in the blanks with ideas that are more intelligent than the story itself, it's like doing their work for them. I'd rather not get my hopes up. They've already let us down with an ending much less than the series and fans deserve, and I don't think any further fan speculation of dev explanations will really fix that.

[Ket]

Fundamentally theres stuff wrong with being inductronated, but I'm willing to overlook that. I also think no fans should be openly suggesting why the ending is so weird / crap, it just gives Bioware excuses. After playing ME3 several times over already (I wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything and to try and figure out if those endings in some way - any way - worked at all. They don't.)

When it's all said and done here are the biggest things I want fixed with DLC;

- Proper ending that makes sence and ties up loose ends - should be free
- A mission where you get to go to Omega with Aria, she becomes part of your landing party and you kick in Omegas front doors and take it back.
- Your love interest from ME2 (if you had one) to actually become a squadmate and you have meaningful chats. Makes sence. - should be free
- A few missions where you get to use your galaxy-wide battle force to take out a Reaper
- A meaningful new Drell squadmate
- A meaningful Krogan squadmate (or just bring Wrex or Grunt back)
- Flesh out the story so a lot more is explained with some DLC - maybe free, not sure. Probably should be free.
- Also, whatever happen to players having Mako and Hammerhead missions that were story related and not afterthoughts? I want that fixed with DLC too.

I can honestly say the first time I completed ME3 and watched the ending my only reaction in my head was "WTF is this sh|t? That isn't a ending, nevermind the kind of ending Mass Effect needs." I was left even further purplexed when I saw Joker, EDI, and a few others legging it on the Normandy. Especially as Garrus was with me when I headed toward the portal thingy. My being perplexed was then elevated to my mind imploding upon itself as I picked the ending where organics and machines "mix", yet EDI still looked... well like a robot, and Joker was still lumbering around like a cripple. I also don't see how killing the Reapers or whatever blows up the mass relays.. doesn't that technically mean every time you kill/ed a Reaper in ME3 or other ME games a mass relay should of blown up? Yet they didn't...

[STEvil]

For some reason thinking about the ending of ME3 and the story problems makes me think the developers were busy trolling us.. although a little more subtle than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NZidTnSoLI

[Frag Maniac]

I also don't see how killing the Reapers or whatever blows up the mass relays.. doesn't that technically mean every time you kill/ed a Reaper in ME3 or other ME games a mass relay should of blown up? Yet they didn't...

I guess supposedly it's the fact that the crucible amasses a power strong enough to kill the Reapers (basically all advanced tech as star child explains), which the mass relays can also collect and project, but it overloads and destroys them in the process. When you're just killing a reaper individually though, you're not using a super collector like the crucible to do so, nor the relays to deliver that force everywhere in the galaxy.

Here's another problem with using the relays though. Remember what happened when the alpha relay was destroyed with an asteroid in ME2? The whole system it was in got wiped out because it basically created a small supernova. So now we're not only wiping out the Reapers, but all civilization anywhere near the events used to do so, yet the cutscene doesn't actually show them causing a supernova.

Also, as advanced as the Reapers are, you'd think they'd send fleets in waves on the final strike on Earth, keeping some in reserve, and even manage to get plenty ships to a safe distance in dark space once they saw the crucible being used, vs literally ALL of them happening to be close enough to relays to be destroyed. How convenient, or inconvenient, forget which, doesn't matter.

Star child also explains that they do not in fact wipe out all organic life, but merely harvest the more advanced part of a race, and leave the young alone. Why didn't they do that with the Protheans?

Too many flaws, too many gaps, too many inconsistencies to call it a great story anymore. The ME series had bits and pieces of greatness, only to go down in flames in the end.

[Ket]

They actually make a excuse for that in ME2, I forget exactly what they say but basically a mass relay blowing up by itself won't cause a mini supernova but rather its because the size of the object they slam into the relay causes the mini supernova effect due to sheer force, kinetic energy and relay energy all combined. Part of that explanation is actually based in the realm of reality. Kinetic energy is already being toyed with for space weapons. Google "rod from god" and it should come up.

[ColonelCain]

I think what happened is what happened with Crysis 2. EA forced a cut-off date on them , and as a result needed to cut pieces. In Crysis 2 it was PC support, in here, it was putting together the myraid of endings that should have existed. I also believe that part of the "artistic discretion" that Bioware is claiming is actually EA strong arming them into covering EA's practices.

[Ket]

Perhaps, but theres probably not a lot EA could of done if Bioware had simply said "look, its not going to be ready by then end of discussion". EA simply would of had to wait until it was ready.

[ColonelCain]

Perhaps, but theres probably not a lot EA could of done if Bioware had simply said "look, its not going to be ready by then end of discussion". EA simply would of had to wait until it was ready.

There is quite a bit that they that EA can do...

[Ket]

Like what? AFAIK if a dev team says something simply isn't going to be ready thats that. I think the bigger beef though is everybody has noticed Biowares work has reduced in quality tenfold since hooking up with EA.

[STEvil]

Like what? AFAIK if a dev team says something simply isn't going to be ready thats that. I think the bigger beef though is everybody has noticed Biowares work has reduced in quality tenfold since hooking up with EA.

Depends how the legal end is set up.

[ColonelCain]

Depends how the legal end is set up.

Exactly. Bioware signs a contract with EA for every game they do, and in the contract it has wording for the expected release date, and 'consequences' for missing that date.

[Andrew LB]

Watch this video. It is without question the best analysis of ME3 and how EA/Bioware failed horribly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MlatxLP-xs&hd=1

Exactly. Bioware signs a contract with EA for every game they do, and in the contract it has wording for the expected release date, and 'consequences' for missing that date.

I highly doubt Bioware ever signed any legally binding contract which gave EA the ability to set a release date for a Bioware product with no way to contest, because doing so would be self-imposed suicide for both Bioware and their franchises. ME3 had the shortest development cycle of any of the three Mass Effect games, and the resulting product was clearly rushed.... resulting in everything following The Illusive Man's station assault to be the biggest piece of crap i've ever played.

[Andrew LB]

[Frag Maniac]

They actually make a excuse for that in ME2, I forget exactly what they say but basically a mass relay blowing up by itself won't cause a mini supernova but rather its because the size of the object they slam into the relay causes the mini supernova effect due to sheer force, kinetic energy and relay energy all combined. Part of that explanation is actually based in the realm of reality.

Reality or not, I've yet to verify your claim of it being used as an excuse in ME2. In fact I made a video of the conversation with Dr. Kenson about it. She only states that destroying a mass relay would probably create a supernova, and that the asteroid is easily sufficient to destroy it. She never states such a method is necessary to cause the supernova. If anything she implies just destroying any mass relay would cause one.

[Andrew LB]

Here's a bunch of quotes from the developers themselves. Talk about feeding the public a load of sh*t....

Official Mass Effect Website
http://masseffect.com/about/story/

“Experience the beginning, middle, and end of an emotional story unlike any
other, where the decisions you make completely shape your experience
and outcome.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://popwatch.ew.com/2012/02/28/ma...3-mac-walters/

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Interview with Mac Walters (Lead Writer)
http://business.financialpost.com/20...all-audiences/

“I’m always leery of saying there are 'optimal' endings, because I think
one of the things we do try to do is make different endings that are
optimal for different people “

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...issing-in-me2/

“And, to be honest, you [the fans] are crafting your Mass Effect story as
much as we are anyway.”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.360magazine.co.uk/intervi...erent-endings/

“There are many different endings. We wouldn’t do it any other way. How
could you go through all three campaigns playing as your Shepard and
then be forced into a bespoke ending that everyone gets? But I can’t
say any more than that…”

Interview with Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/20...e-people-angry

“Every decision you've made will impact how things go. The player's also the
architect of what happens."

“You'll get answers to everything. That was one of the key things. Regardless
of how we did everything, we had to say, yes, we're going to provide
some answers to these people.”

“Because a lot of these plot threads are concluding and because it's being
brought to a finale, since you were a part of architecting how they
got to how they were, you will definitely sense how they close was
because of the decisions you made and because of the decisions you
didn't make”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...-effect-3.aspx

“For people who are invested in these characters and the back-story of the
universe and everything, all of these things come to a resolution in
Mass Effect 3. And they are resolved in a way that's very different
based on what you would do in those situations.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://venturebeat.com/2012/03/02/ca...ans-interview/

“Fans want to make sure that they see things resolved, they want to get
some closure, a great ending. I think they’re going to get that.”

“Mass Effect 3 is all about answering all the biggest questions in the
lore, learning about the mysteries and the Protheans and the Reapers,
being able to decide for yourself how all of these things come to an
end.”

Interviewer: “So are you guys the creators or the stewards of the franchise?”
Hudson: “Um… You know, at this point, I think we’re co-creators with
the fans. We use a lot of feedback.”

Interview with Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.gameinformer.com/b/featur...ostPageIndex=2

Interviewer: [Regarding the numerous possible endings of Mass Effect 2] “Is that
same type of complexity built into the ending of Mass Effect 3?”
Hudson: “Yeah, and I’d say much more so, because we have the ability to
build the endings out in a way that we don’t have to worry about
eventually tying them back together somewhere. This story arc is
coming to an end with this game. That means the endings can be a lot
more different. At this point we’re taking into account so many
decisions that you’ve made as a player and reflecting a lot of that
stuff. It’s not even in any way like the traditional game endings,
where you can say how many endings there are or whether you got
ending A, B, or C.....The endings have a lot more sophistication and
variety in them.”

“We have a rule in our franchise that there is no canon. You as a player
decide what your story is.”


EDIT: Couple more interesting quotes I found, enjoy......or not.


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/news/1027650...n_bioware.html

Mass Effect 3 will shake up the player's moral choices more than ever
before, even going so far as allowing the Reapers to win the battle
for Earth, according to BioWare's community representative Mike
Gamble.


In an inteview with NowGamer at Gamescom, we asked if BioWare was taking risks with Mass Effect 3's
plot, including a negative ending in which the Reapers win. Gamble simply said, "Yes". We asked him again to confirm what he had just said and he said, "Yes".

EDIT: thanks to Our_Last_Scene for pointing out that this quote was clarified on Mike Gamble's twitter feed (apparently the 'reapers win' scenario is simply the 'Critical Mission Failure' message the player receives if they dawdle too long at the crucible before making their choice, see this link for info - http://twitter.com/#!/GambleMike/sta...95746313363457)


Mike Gamble (Associate Producer)
http://www.nowgamer.com/features/122...y_details.html


"Of course you don’t have to play multiplayer, you can choose to play
all the side-quests in single-player and do all that stuff you’ll
still get all the same endings and same information, it’s just a
totally different way of playing"


Casey Hudson (Director)
http://gamescatalyst.com/2012/03/cas...ctive-stories/

“The whole idea of Mass Effect3 is resolving all of the biggest questions, about the Protheons and
the Reapers, and being in the driver's seat to end the galaxy and all
of these big plot lines, to decide what civilizations are going to
live or die: All of these things are answered in Mass Effect 3.”

Casey Hudson (Director)
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...y-good/?page=2

“There is a huge set of consequences that start stacking up as you approach the end-game. And
even in terms of the ending itself, it continues to break down to
some very large decisions. So it's not like a classic game ending
where everything is linear and you make a choice between a few things
- it really does layer in many, many different choices, up to the
final moments, where it's going to be different for everyone who
plays it.”


EDIT: Thanks to Skidrow-Garrett for pointing out another mystifying quote or two. It seems Bioware worked for years on the ending and are really pleased with it. I think it makes new DLC to address all the concerns less likely, unfortunately.

Ray Muzyka (Co-Founder of Bioware)
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edito...ng-a-trilogy-a

“I just finished an end to end playthrough, for me the ending was the
most satisfying of any game I’ve ever played….the decisions you make in
this game are epic,”

“The team has been planning
for this for years, since the beginning of the Mass Effect franchise.
Largely the same team, most of the same leads have worked on this for
years and years. They’ve thought about [the ending] for years and years.
It’s not something they’ve had to solve in a week or a month even, but
over the course of five or ten years.”