xtremeoverlocking - pushing the 3930K/3960X to 4.5 GHz - update

[alpha754293]

Can you read?

What I said was very clear.

I have neither the time nor the patience to deal with petulant, spoiled, immature children. DON'T bother posting on my threads anymore until you've actually got something worthwhile to contribute to the discussion.

And you've done this to BOTH threads of the same topic so this isn't even an isolated case.

I don't need your input. I don't WANT your input because out of all of the posts you made on both my threads, only ONE of them actually added something of value. The rest is how you're ing about how I treating you different just cuz you're not an engineer or something. (I don't remember EXACTLY what you were ing about verbatim). blah blah blah blah blah cry me a ing river.

[BeepBeep2]

You seem to be the one crying a river.
By the way, several of my posts have added value and taught you something you didn't previously know...

I can make a list if you want. No need to get butthurt.

EDIT:
If I am the petulant, spoiled, immature child, try your best to act like the adult in the situation.

I like the thanks you've given me for my help though.

[alpha754293]

You don't even disprove me...you just about .
I could have neglected to help you at all, where would you be?

first part - I'm not going to even dignify that with a response.

second part - the only difference is I wouldn't have known what LLC is. C'est tout. The system was already OC'd by the time you got around to explaining it to me. So...for all practical intents and purposes - if you didn't "help" me - I would be in the EXACT same spot that I'm in right now. OC'd, at 4.5 GHz, at 1.42 Vcore, with the test matrix fully populated and yeahhh....minus knowing what LLC is. BUt that's okay. I'm pretty sure I could have asked someone else. Someone who ISN'T a narcissicist, ego maniac "ooh...I know more than you do" whoa hooo....look at me.... Really??? Really??? Are you freakin' kidding me??? LMAO.

I have NEVER claimed to be all knowing. I said I know more about the subject at hand (overclocking, d******) than you. You constantly attempt to refute my claims with silly accusations like "Your answer was incomplete"..."If only I had known"..."If you would just have explained" about things you didn't even know about until I told you, in which case you didn't comprehend it anyway.

Seriously? That's how you show people that you know more than they do? You say/explain things once and if they don't get it, that's their ing business/fault? Really??? Way to go. Oh yea...you're going to get far in life. That's for sure. You're like...four propped collars cool.

Why do I need to explain explanations? Look into it yourself or ask questions instead of insulting me.

Hello...what the hell do you think I'm doing?

Q: So why don't manufacturer's do that?
Your answer: "I already explained this in regards to the transient overshoot upon load when LLC is applied to correct vdroop upon load.
Voltages can spike outside of working specification during the overshoot. Does everything I tell you just go "in one ear and out the other"?"

(really? "Does everything I tell you just go "in one ear and out the other"?" That's how you answer a question after you're telling me to ask questions??? Seriously??? Are you ing kidding me (some more)???)

Note that that says NOTHING about why manufacturers do it the way they do. Or references. I mean, can't you at least POINT to an Intel Technical Specification? (And then you wonder why I at you about incomplete answers). The word "Intel" or "manufacture" or any synonyms thereof doesn't even APPEAR in your answer.

How does THOSE two sentences and the question actually answer "why don't manufacturers do it that way?" That's quite an amazing feat actually. Kudos to you. You've manage to answer a manufacturing question without even using the word "make, produce, manufacturer" or such synonyms in the whole of your response. AND it's succinct too!!! At two whole sentences!!!

man. Companies ought to be lining up to hire you. Quick, simple, and to the point. So much so that you don't even have to use the word or anything remotely referencing the question in your answer. You're on your A-game.

[BeepBeep2]

Yep, because you should have already known the answer.

What do you think I meant by transient overshoot? For a split second as you apply load, voltage spikes very high when LLC is enabled. vdroop is incorporated to make sure that there is no damaging transient overshoot. I told you that already...albeit "wrongly" as you've "proven me wrong" with your non-existent logic of course. (Consisting of thoughts similar to following A / B / C- A. "This kid is ing about " or B. "This kid doesn't know anything" or C. "I don't understand, so he didn't give me a complete answer")

This is a good read. It says what I've been saying using technical terminology. It's not like I didn't explain it to you otherwise.
http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126

EDIT:
Also, quit wasting time and play with LLC to enable similar load/idle voltages. Then you can just run 1.37-1.38v set instead of 1.42v.

[alpha754293]

You seem to be the one crying a river.
By the way, several of my posts have added value and taught you something you didn't previously know...

I can make a list if you want. No need to get butthurt.

sure..make a list. I don't care.

In terms of your "help", I didn't use ANY of the information to actually get to the OC. In fact, I've actually already mentioned the various sources of information from the various people that helped made this OC a working success. Intersting. You weren't/didn't make the list. Hmm....I wonder why.

(Nice. Must feel good overstating your importance huh? Or at least it should oughta make you feel good about yourself. Regardless of whether it's real or imagined.)

EDIT:
If I am the petulant, spoiled, immature child, try your best to act like the adult in the situation.

I like the thanks you've given me for my help though.

I am. See, unlike you, I can admit it when I'm wrong. I can admit it when I don't know something that I really don't know anything about (rather than trying to pretend I know anything about it and talking outta my ass). And I will usually (nearly always, but there are times when I will miss some) declare when I am making an assumption about someone that I don't know off the internet.

And when I've been proved wrong, I can honestly and openly admit to that. (Rather than try and fight it).

And that I NEVER tell people that I am smart (because as far as I'm concerned, I'm DEFINITELY no smarter than the next person. The only real difference between me and the next guy is that I read. A lot. And that's even AFTER the fact that I HATE, HATE, HATTEEEE reading. I think that it's a complete utter waste of time - time that could be spent doing something else, something better, more important. There are greater problems in this world and in this life than to spend it reading. But because of the nature of my job, I have to read. Constantly. Always. And I'm "forced" if you will, to learn new things, all the time. I have to.) It's been said that you can never be a know it all, but that certainly hasn't stopped me from trying to read it all.

People tell me that I'm smart. I disagree with them because to me - what I do is just business as usual for me. Some of the greatest and smartest people that has ever existed on this planet NEVER actually have to tell others that they're smart. But that's because just by their sheer action, the way they act, what they do, how they do it, and the way they speak - people can tell. Course, you're probably one that might actually agree with me in that statement/sentiment (that I am not smart.) And if you disagree with me, you're wrong.

And I really don't care whether you think that I'm smart or not. Why? Cuz tomorrow's just another day and it's all just in a days worth of work and it's business as usual for me. So it is, am I smart? Don't know. Don't really care. There are more important things to worry about in life than that.

There will ALWAYS be people who are smarter than I. And there will ALWAYS be people who aren't. There will ALWAYS be people who know more than I do. And there will ALWAYS be people who know less than I do. And the most important thing isn't about how smart you are, or how much you know - but what you do with it.

Course, when someone comes along and retorts with:

You seem to be the one crying a river.

It makes you wonder - are you even capable of your own, unique thoughts???

[alpha754293]

Yep, because you should have already known the answer.

What do you think I meant by transient overshoot? For a split second as you apply load, voltage spikes very high when LLC is enabled. vdroop is incorporated to make sure that there is no damaging transient overshoot. I told you that already...albeit "wrongly" as you've "proven me wrong" with your non-existent logic of course. (Consisting of thoughts similar to following A / B / C- A. "This kid is ing about " or B. "This kid doesn't know anything" or C. "I don't understand, so he didn't give me a complete answer")

This is a good read. It says what I've been saying using technical terminology. It's not like I didn't explain it to you otherwise.
http://www.thetechrepository.com/showthread.php?t=126

I thought that it had to do with the voltage dropping when the load is applied.

So...what exactly IS LLC anyways?

What do you mean by "when the LLC is enabled"? I thought that it's enabled all the time? Like you set it to Medium or High or Ultra or whatever it is in your BIOS and then away it goes - it's running on whatever setting you have it at the whole time?

Would it be akin to like a traction control system them? Like you can adjust how "much" it controls, but doesn't engage until you need it?

[alpha754293]

I told you that already...albeit "wrongly" as you've "proven me wrong" with your non-existent logic of course.

yes...when I've shown you that I asked the question of what IS LLC before the first answer even appeared on here. Right....I guess time logic doesn't apply to you. (duly noted. Are you SURE that you're not one of the Enron boys? What did they do? Let you out early for good behaviour? How's Texas?)

How does restating something over and over again to someone who doesn't understand something equivalent to you explaining it again?

That's like teaching someone who doesn't understand chemical half reactions or polymerization reactions and saying the same thing over and over again and then somehow, you expect that there's be some sort of miracle, that because you just repeat it, they're going to get it.

Wow....you REALLY ARE going gunning to be a professor aren't you?

I can just picture your name now on ratemyprofessor.com and some of the comments from your future students. "DON'T TAKE HIS COURSE. HE JUST REPEATS THE SAME THING OVER AND OVER AGAIN AND SOMEHOW EXPECTS YOU TO GET IT!" LOL....

Oh...I can sooo see the bright future you've got ahead of you. So...where are you going to teach? (So that I can make sure that my kids stay farrr farrr away from you.)

[BeepBeep2]

I thought that it had to do with the voltage dropping when the load is applied.

So...what exactly IS LLC anyways?

What do you mean by "when the LLC is enabled"? I thought that it's enabled all the time? Like you set it to Medium or High or Ultra or whatever it is in your BIOS and then away it goes - it's running on whatever setting you have it at the whole time?

Would it be akin to like a traction control system them? Like you can adjust how "much" it controls, but doesn't engage until you need it?

I already answered you...

vdroop is the dropping of voltage upon load, manufacturers implement this to reduce/eliminate transient overshoot over idle voltages when a load is first applied. If you read the external like I provided above you will see that is is somewhat a part of intel specification...

LLC (please, don't spring another "well you should have explained that you meant Load-Line Calibration when you said LLC" after you already knew what it was; and cause argument) is a compensation mechanism, the resistance of the circuit is changed by the user through software to compensate vdroop under load (remember a few pages back when I told you that extreme overclockers would solder different resistors to do this?) ...making it much easier than having to "hard-mod" (perform physical changes to the SMT's)...

I've given you all of this before...

With that information that you were already given, you should have been able to deduct that manufacturers don't enable LLC by default because the transient overshoot can cause voltages to spike above Intel's specific CPU voltage specifications (which also depends on the model) and in possible cases damage the processor...none if very few of us here own an oscilloscope (I told you that it needs to be measured with one) so I apologize if we can't tell you what exactly that overshoot amounts to.

A lot, if not all of the stuff I am telling you now I am just regurgitating from my previous "incomplete" responses. I apologize if that information was broken between posts, or you missed something, but I want to let you know that I'm quite tired of repeating myself.

The other two posts in your triple-post I'm going to ignore for the moment, they are simply personal digs that you don't have valid reasoning behind (having to do with my illiteracy and/or lack of "complete" responses, giving you partial info or misleading you, etc.) and I don't want to expend my energy replying to them.

[alpha754293]

Yep, because you should have already known the answer.

How do you figure???

Fine. You know what...since you already expect me to know the answer and because you've already stated that you know more than I do, so I'm just going to expect that you know everything from here on out and that I don't have to explain anything from you.

And if you should ever have any questions, I'm just going throw that back at you. "You should already know the answer to that."

Course, you're going to come back with some little y comment about "I didn't say I know everything. I only said I know more about overclocking than you do." blah blah blah....

How do you figure that I should have known that already??? Are you totally ing retarded??? Why would you expect someone who's NOT an OCer to already have an answer or known something about OCing when they've already explicitly told you MULTIPLE times that they don't know about OCing.

I'm sorry. But that's just ing dumb AS . With statements like that, I don't NEED to make you look like an idiot or attempt to try. You're quite capable and inherently proficient at that task by yourself. You don't NEED my help.

That's gotta be like one of the stupidest thing I've read all day today. And that's AFTER starting "Hunger Games".

[BeepBeep2]

How do you figure???

Fine. You know what...since you already expect me to know the answer and because you've already stated that you know more than I do, so I'm just going to expect that you know everything from here on out and that I don't have to explain anything from you.

And if you should ever have any questions, I'm just going throw that back at you. "You should already know the answer to that."

Course, you're going to come back with some little y comment about "I didn't say I know everything. I only said I know more about overclocking than you do." blah blah blah....

How do you figure that I should have known that already??? Are you totally ing retarded??? Why would you expect someone who's NOT an OCer to already have an answer or known something about OCing when they've already explicitly told you MULTIPLE times that they don't know about OCing.

I'm sorry. But that's just ing dumb AS . With statements like that, I don't NEED to make you look like an idiot or attempt to try. You're quite capable and inherently proficient at that task by yourself. You don't NEED my help.

That's gotta be like one of the stupidest thing I've read all day today. And that's AFTER starting "Hunger Games".

LOL, you should have known the answer because it was already previously spelled out to you. (Now once again in my last post)
No need to stoop to my level, the level of "a petulant, spoiled, immature child", so quit the vulgarity.

Now, I apologize for my vulgarity as well in past posts but you are being completely unreasonable...in a fit of rage over things that you shouldn't get so worked up about and trying to prove me "incomplete" even if not "incorrect" or you already knew what I was saying, because you have a superiority complex.

Telling me I'm going to come back with "some little s***ty comment", (by the way, I DIDN'T SAY I KNOW EVERYTHING, and I don't want to look up that post...I believe I said "I know more than you do", not sure if I added "about overclocking" or whatever, but then again, what are we talking about?) ...also telling me that what I've said is "just f***ing dumb as f**k", that you "don't even need to make me look like an idiot because I am quite capable and inherently proficient at that task myself" ... "stupidest thing I've read all day" ... "

Come on, who is acting the child here? I haven't gone nearly that far in any attacks toward you, and most of my personal attacks toward you were after you tried to prove me wrong about something you knew very little about, by simply throwing more topics into conversation or telling me that I was incomplete because you didn't fully comprehend.

[alpha754293]

I already answered you...

vdroop is the dropping of voltage upon load

okay, that part I get.

, manufacturers implement this to reduce/eliminate transient overshoot over idle voltages when a load is first applied.

"this"....is that referring to Vdroop or LLC? Which is it?

Why would there be a transient overshoot over idle voltages when a load is first applied?

You just said - the voltage drops. So, where's the overshoot?

high point ----->>> -------|________ <----- low point (load applied) (plot of voltage vs. time)

Where would there be a transient overshoot if the voltage drops? I thought that transient overshoots happens when it's the reverse?

low point (at load) ----->>> ________|------------- <<<----- high point (idle). And the transient overshoot will occur when it goes from low to high? Or am I wrong? (I dun geddit.)

I've NEVER seen a transient overshoot on a DROP in voltage. I've seen it for when the voltage suddenly increases but NEVER when it drops.

If you read the external like I provided above you will see that is is somewhat a part of intel specification...

Maybe tomorrow. Don't have time right now.

LLC (please, don't spring another "well you should have explained that you meant Load-Line Calibration when you said LLC" after you already knew what it was; and cause argument)

No, i'm sure that the acronym is well defined by now. But thanks for asking/clarifying that up for me though.

is a compensation mechanism, the resistance of the circuit is changed by the user through software

Software can change resistances??? Cool. Learn something new again. Wow...two in a row. (I thought that resistance was controlled by resistors. So I'm not really sure how a software can perform the same functions of a resistor but ok....I don't understand that, but I'll go with it.

to compensate vdroop under load (remember a few pages back when I told you that extreme overclockers would solder different resistors to do this?) ...making it much easier than having to "hard-mod" (perform physical changes to the SMT's)...

SMT's...??? (no wait....www.acronymfinder.com) uh...."surface mount technologies"? (well...I know that it can't be referring to simultaneous multithreading). surface mount toroid? (Dooo keep in mind that you're NOT talking to an ECE here.)

I've given you all of this before...

Uh....I don't think that you have. I'll run a search tomorrow with the search them "software" in this thread and see if anything OTHER than this post shows up (that were written by you). (If you find it before I do though, link please. Thanks.)

With that information that you were already given, you should have been able to deduct that manufacturers don't enable LLC by default because the transient overshoot can cause voltages to spike above Intel's specific CPU voltage specifications (which also depends on the model)...

It's deduce.

And uh...how do you figure that? (see above ^ about the question re: transient overshoots. I've STILL never seen a transient overshoot due to a voltage DROP, but I HAVE seen them due to sudden rise in voltages.)

Why would the voltage spike? Is it because it's a continuous "spline" function? or looks like one? Isn't there some sort of like control theory were you can have no overshoot, but it might take it much longer to reach the target?

A lot, if not all of the stuff I am telling you now I am just regurgitating from my previous "incomplete" responses. I apologize if that information was broken between posts, or you missed something, but I want to let you know that I'm quite tired of repeating myself.

Oh, I'm sure you are. Which is time for new information. And ^ this is new. And I must have missed something (especially if posts are edited while I'm already replying, as I RARELY go back.) Which is what I've been asking for at least the LAST TWO times that I've been saying "I dun geddit."

The other two posts in your triple-post I'm going to ignore for the moment, they are simply personal digs that you don't have valid reasoning behind (having to do with my illiteracy and/or lack of "complete" responses, giving you partial info or misleading you, etc.) and I don't want to expend my energy replying to them.

Answer. Don't answer. That's entirely up to you. They're no less personal than the *edit* some of the posts that you've put up. (except read the adult part. Since you specifically asked for it.)

[alpha754293]

LOL, you should have known the answer because it was already previously spelled out to you. (Now once again in my last post)
No need to stoop to my level, the level of "a petulant, spoiled, immature child", so quit the vulgarity.

Now, I apologize for my vulgarity as well in past posts but you are being completely unreasonable...in a fit of rage over things that you shouldn't get so worked up about and trying to prove me "incomplete" even if not "incorrect" or you already knew what I was saying, because you have a superiority complex.

Telling me I'm going to come back with "some little s***ty comment", (by the way, I DIDN'T SAY I KNOW EVERYTHING, and I don't want to look up that post...I believe I said "I know more than you do", not sure if I added "about overclocking" or whatever, but then again, what are we talking about?) ...also telling me that what I've said is "just f***ing dumb as f**k", that you "don't even need to make me look like an idiot because I am quite capable and inherently proficient at that task myself" ... "stupidest thing I've read all day" ... "

Come on, who is acting the child here? I haven't gone nearly that far in any attacks toward you, and most of my personal attacks toward you were after you tried to prove me wrong about something you knew very little about, by simply throwing more topics into conversation or telling me that I was incomplete because you didn't fully comprehend.

too tired to answer now. Will pick this up tomorrow.

[alpha754293]

LLC (please, don't spring another "well you should have explained that you meant Load-Line Calibration when you said LLC" after you already knew what it was; and cause argument) is a compensation mechanism, the resistance of the circuit is changed by the user through software to compensate vdroop under load (remember a few pages back when I told you that extreme overclockers would solder different resistors to do this?) ...making it much easier than having to "hard-mod" (perform physical changes to the SMT's)...

P.S. You know, for someone that's asking "please, don't spring another "well you should have explained that you meant Load-Line Calibration when you said LLC"" -- why would you do it again with SMT? What's SMT?

*rolls eyes*

Didn't we just go through this???

Heck, if you're cognizant enough to ask NOT for me to bring that up again, you'd THINK that you'd be intelligent enough NOT to just jump straight into yet another undefined TLA. Seriously??? Ughhh....

Whyyy do you do this to me? Whyyyy??? Why why why why why? after all that we've been through already? And you're still doing it? Whyyy? Do you really hate me that much to spite my by using an undefined TLA??? (HTT: "It's all about the TLAs man.") (And yes, I am now doing that on purpose, mostly to mock.) I JUST don't get how someone who's asking NOT to repeat the whole LLC thing...and then turn around and then do the EXACT same thing with SMT. *facepalm.jpg* You win. I give up.

*breathe* ohmmmm......I MUST come to accept that some people are just LD.

[BeepBeep2]

okay, that part I get.

"this"....is that referring to Vdroop or LLC? Which is it?

Why would there be a transient overshoot over idle voltages when a load is first applied?

You just said - the voltage drops. So, where's the overshoot?

high point ----->>> -------|________ <----- low point (load applied) (plot of voltage vs. time)

Where would there be a transient overshoot if the voltage drops? I thought that transient overshoots happens when it's the reverse?

low point (at load) ----->>> ________|------------- <<<----- high point (idle). And the transient overshoot will occur when it goes from low to high? Or am I wrong? (I dun geddit.)

I've NEVER seen a transient overshoot on a DROP in voltage. I've seen it for when the voltage suddenly increases but NEVER when it drops.

"this" was referring to vdroop. "voltage droop". LLC is implemented to combat it, if the user chooses to do so.

It is probably in that article I linked...I just know it happens, not exactly sure why, but I know that faster VRM switching frequencies can reduce it at the expense of power efficiency and heat.

The other stuff in there is moot, and you are right...but it isn't related the the above.

Maybe tomorrow. Don't have time right now.

Alright.

No, i'm sure that the acronym is well defined by now. But thanks for asking/clarifying that up for me though.

Okay.

Software can change resistances??? Cool. Learn something new again. Wow...two in a row. (I thought that resistance was controlled by resistors. So I'm not really sure how a software can perform the same functions of a resistor but ok....I don't understand that, but I'll go with it.

...indirectly by the user through the BIOS (which is a form of software), through a hardware controller on the board, that chooses different paths of resistors on the board. (Unless of course, the board implements a trimmer instead) ...no need to "get smart" about what I said.

SMT's...??? (no wait....www.acronymfinder.com) uh...."surface mount technologies"? (well...I know that it can't be referring to simultaneous multithreading). surface mount toroid? (Dooo keep in mind that you're NOT talking to an ECE here.)

I should have said SMT components. I apologize. "Surface Mount Technology components" such as resistors, MOSFETs, various ICs/controllers, inductors and capacitors.

Uh....I don't think that you have. I'll run a search tomorrow with the search them "software" in this thread and see if anything OTHER than this post shows up (that were written by you). (If you find it before I do though, link please. Thanks.)

...okay, I said "most" if not all...the word "software" is rather useless unless you just want to try and find another irrelevant flaw in my replies to start more bickering/bitter emotions/child-like behavior (which you have also exhibited)/name calling.

It's deduce.

Thanks, I'm not an English major, I am a junior in High School taking a mixture of college and high school courses, dual enrolled.

And uh...how do you figure that? (see above ^ about the question re: transient overshoots. I've STILL never seen a transient overshoot due to a voltage DROP, but I HAVE seen them due to sudden rise in voltages.)

Why would the voltage spike? Is it because it's a continuous "spline" function? or looks like one? Isn't there some sort of like control theory were you can have no overshoot, but it might take it much longer to reach the target?

Measured with an oscilloscope that can update at a high rate, fast enough to see the overshoot. I'm sure you know, the built in monitoring of these motherboards updates rather sluggishly, so do digital/analog multimeters.

Oh, I'm sure you are. Which is time for new information. And ^ this is new. And I must have missed something (especially if posts are edited while I'm already replying, as I RARELY go back.) Which is what I've been asking for at least the LAST TWO times that I've been saying "I dun geddit."

No, that stuff wasn't new at all. I do edit my posts, but most of the time it is rather quick. You really should look back to make sure you've seen all of it; and you are really quick to jump on my claims. It doesn't take much longer and otherwise you would have had to wait longer for a reply anyway.

Answer. Don't answer. That's entirely up to you. They're no less personal than the *edit* some of the posts that you've put up. (except read the adult part. Since you specifically asked for it.)

Your personal attacks are a bit more vulgar and extensive than mine have been.

I like how you asked if I could (paraphrasing) "come up with any thoughts of my own"...is that supposed to be an attack on my youth? I said it because you were throwing a fit, not because I wasn't able to come up with a more vicious and/or different retort.

EDIT:
Why?

P.S. You know, for someone that's asking "please, don't spring another "well you should have explained that you meant Load-Line Calibration when you said LLC"" -- why would you do it again with SMT? What's SMT?

*rolls eyes*

Didn't we just go through this???

Heck, if you're cognizant enough to ask NOT for me to bring that up again, you'd THINK that you'd be intelligent enough NOT to just jump straight into yet another undefined TLA. Seriously??? Ughhh....

Whyyy do you do this to me? Whyyyy??? Why why why why why? after all that we've been through already? And you're still doing it? Whyyy? Do you really hate me that much to spite my by using an undefined TLA??? (HTT: "It's all about the TLAs man.") (And yes, I am now doing that on purpose, mostly to mock.) I JUST don't get how someone who's asking NOT to repeat the whole LLC thing...and then turn around and then do the EXACT same thing with SMT. *facepalm.jpg* You win. I give up.

*breathe* ohmmmm......I MUST come to accept that some people are just LD.

Yes, I was not clear in that, you were polite enough to ask without making sure you pointed out that is shows how stupid I am, and I corrected myself/explained further. The argument you brought up (that I asked you not to try again) in regards to "LLC" was after you knew what it was, used the acronym the same way I did yourself, and was after I explained to you how Load-Line Calibration worked... I'm not sure if you just pretended to not know, or genuinely forgot about it Monday morning.

[alpha754293]

"this" was referring to vdroop. "voltage droop". LLC is implemented to combat it, if the user chooses to do so.

ok

It is probably in that article I linked...I just know it happens, not exactly sure why, but I know that faster VRM switching frequencies can reduce it at the expense of power efficiency and heat.

VRM...voltage regulator modules? machines? (hold on...www.acronymfinder.com again) module. (Not sure how those actually work either.)

The other stuff in there is moot, and you are right...but it isn't related the the above.

Alright.

Just quickly skimmed through it a little bit. You'll probably have to dumb it down for me cuz I had to take circuits for dummies TWICE. It was either two or three times. I don't really remember. I somehow managed to get a 95% in it though. Yayyyy group tests. And that's AFTER our resident ECE tried to explain it to me in mechanical terms too. (Not real big on the electronics stuff. I can understand it upto the conceptual level, but much beyond that - I have about the same level of understanding of electronics as I do of organic chemistry.) I HATE programmer, but I am in awe of programmers (because they can do something that I can't).

Okay.

...indirectly by the user through the BIOS (which is a form of software), through a hardware controller on the board, that chooses different paths of resistors on the board. (Unless of course, the board implements a trimmer instead) ...no need to "get smart" about what I said.

It isn't a getting smart thing. It's a "I thought resistance was a physical thing" thing... So for me to wrap my head around it being done in software is like...one of those "mind blowing" concepts. Like I can imagine if there's something that creates like an artifical load or something.

Now, if it's the difference between like how in sports cars you can "select" the amount of dampening the shocks have (if it has magnetorheological (MR) shocks), then I can understand how you can select the resistance via software. (i.e. the software isn't the resistor. But it picks a different circuit path for it to go through and the different circuit paths have difference resistance values. So it's still a physical manifestation, and not a virtual one.

I should have said SMT components. I apologize. "Surface Mount Technology components" such as resistors, MOSFETs, various ICs/controllers, inductors and capacitors.

Okay...just checking.

...okay, I said "most" if not all...the word "software" is rather useless unless you just want to try and find another irrelevant flaw in my replies to start more bickering/bitter emotions/child-like behavior (which you have also exhibited)/name calling.

Well...you said that you've said all this before. I don't think that you've quite explained it in that way, which I actually UNDERSTAND.

Sometimes, I've noticed, that if although you have to take a long roundabout way of explaining things because of all of the analogies that you would have to use to get the point across. But, I'm sure that if you presented the straight-on explanation, you might lose your audience as well (hence the utilization of the analogies). Once your target audience can understand the basics with the analogies, it makes it a lot easier to move to other, more "advanced" stuff because you can always refer back to the ultra-simplified model/representation. (Just periodically remind them that it is an ultra simplified model, and that the reality is a little (or a lot) more complicated than that.)

Thanks, I'm not an English major, I am a junior in High School taking a mixture of college and high school courses, dual enrolled.

Neither was I. Until my senior year of high school, but that was more of a fluke accident that I ended up being an English and English lit major. (My other course was calculus.) But I've always found it important to be well versed and educated in the English vernacular for two reasons: 1) if you DO end up going into a technical field - it'll break the stereotype. (Oh...it's quite amusing when people assume that just cuz you're a technical engineer that you know LITTLE if ANYTHING about the arts. But when you're arguing the merits of John Keats; people are surprised by that. And there's a certain air of "respect" for breaking the stereotype and having been reasonably well read. (Despite I hate reading.) and 2) having a full vernacular means that you have a vast array of words to choose from in your communiqué. Like I said, if I don't write it - that's my fault. If I write it and you don't read it, that's your fault. (And if someone then asks me the same question again, I WILL quote myself and how I have already previously stated/answered the question.)

Measured with an oscilloscope that can update at a high rate, fast enough to see the overshoot. I'm sure you know, the built in monitoring of these motherboards updates rather sluggishly, so do digital/analog multimeters.

Well...sometimes the METHOD of monitoring also matters. There's a whole science of sensors and how they work.

(It was quite interesting when I was doing my undergrad thesis and sampling at 10 kHz. You can see the sensor's "heartbeat".)

No, that stuff wasn't new at all. I do edit my posts, but most of the time it is rather quick. You really should look back to make sure you've seen all of it; and you are really quick to jump on my claims. It doesn't take much longer and otherwise you would have had to wait longer for a reply anyway.

I start responding once I get the email notification.

Your personal attacks are a bit more vulgar and extensive than mine have been.

I like how you asked if I could (paraphrasing) "come up with any thoughts of my own"...is that supposed to be an attack on my youth? I said it because you were throwing a fit, not because I wasn't able to come up with a more vicious and/or different retort.

Yes, that's after I've longggg avoiding them. But since you don't seem to get it (plus, I mean...some of the you say, that's just there for the taking really.)

EDIT:
Why?

Yes, I was not clear in that, you were polite enough to ask without making sure you pointed out that is shows how stupid I am, and I corrected myself/explained further. The argument you brought up (that I asked you not to try again) in regards to "LLC" was after you knew what it was, used the acronym the same way I did yourself, and was after I explained to you how Load-Line Calibration worked... I'm not sure if you just pretended to not know, or genuinely forgot about it Monday morning.

well..considering that I'm at work monday morning and away from the system. But as I've pointed out, the OCing started before LLC was mentioned. And even then, I had asked about LLC RIGHT after it was mentioned.

So the point was that all in retrospect. And it was also an attempt to answer why I have a 1.42 V Vcore.

And as I've also stated before, telling somebody that you have a Vcore of 1.38 but neglect to mention that it's at load (either because you assume that that person knows or because it some kind of "industry standard" - which is still an assumption that that person knows that) is a bad practice.

When you're already being told explicitly that I don't know about OCing and then you make gross assumptions like these, that just makes you look dumb. (You know how the saying goes.) Furthermore, as I've also pointed out - since you can't set the Vcore@load AND that the Vcore fluctuates depending on the given load - if I'm going into the BIOS - and you're telling me 1.38, I'm going to be typing in "1.38" where it says "CPU Vcore".

It's VERY simple. Don't think like how you'd think (or how you'd OC). Think like how THAT person will think/will OC. (Because thinking like how you think presumes/assumes that that person knows what you know, which is not always the case. And in this particular case, I TOLD you that that wasn't the case already. Multiple times. And yet you still persisted with it.)

And I can't, for the life of me, figure out why you would do something like that?

That'd be like telling someone who can barely reach the gas pedal to push harder.

And I've pointed that out to you on a number of occasions too, so it wasn't a one-time thing either.

[Buckeye]

WoW interesting thread, but it seems it just goes on and on with you guys attacking each other over and over. I did read through a lot of this before and its pretty much walls of text with some good points and then nothing but attacks.

Also this thread alone has generated way to many reported posts so lets lock her up and then maybe you guys can go find something else to do for awhile.