Swiftech® introduces new Lok-Seal™ brand of compression fittings

[squick3n]

I have all types of fittings and the O-rings are not visible. Granted, if I used an O-ring that did not come with it then the possibility of an issue could arise. I also never had an issue with a fitting scratching the surface, regardless of brand. It sounds like you are over tightening the fittings. Most fittings only need to be hand tightened, so the use of tools is unnecessary, however, using a tool to twist it a little further after hand tightening shouldn't hurt, I just think it's unnecessary. By the way, I have Koolance, BP, Enzotech, Monsoon, EK, Swiftech, Promochill and Danger Den fittings, from barbs to compression fittings.

I certainly am not an expert or even close, but I just don't see how you wouldn't see the o-ring on the DD and enzotech barbs. There's no way to fit the entire o-rings in the grooves. I took these just now. All hand tightened only. Only the Koolance fitting is flush, as it's o-ring seals within the groove. Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I just can't see a way where that Enzotech o-ring isn't visible

[meanmoe]

Maybe I'm doing it wrong, but I just can't see a way where that Enzotech o-ring isn't visible

I agree... I'm staring at a few myself.

[gabe]

I have all types of fittings and the O-rings are not visible. Granted, if I used an O-ring that did not come with it then the possibility of an issue could arise. I also never had an issue with a fitting scratching the surface, regardless of brand. It sounds like you are over tightening the fittings. Most fittings only need to be hand tightened, so the use of tools is unnecessary, however, using a tool to twist it a little further after hand tightening shouldn't hurt, I just think it's unnecessary. By the way, I have Koolance, BP, Enzotech, Monsoon, EK, Swiftech, Promochill and Danger Den fittings, from barbs to compression fittings.

"Most fittings only need to be hand tightened"

Please take the time to read my white paper; at least the first 4 pages... I have to categorically disagree with your statement.

[PaganII]

Great product. The folks that restore antique motorcycles use wrenches with plastic inserts to prevent marring the cadmium, parkerized or chrome finish on bolts/nuts if anyone needs something like that. I just tape the inside of an open end wrench. I guess Gabe has a reason for requiring 2 different wrench sizes to tighten the fitting and the collar?

Edit: Well looks like the largest plastic inserts available are 15mm, 9/16"

[gabe]

Great product. The folks that restore antique motorcycles use wrenches with plastic inserts to prevent marring the cadmium, parkerized or chrome finish on bolts/nuts if anyone needs something like that. I just tape the inside of an open end wrench. I guess Gabe has a reason for requiring 2 different wrench sizes to tighten the fitting and the collar?

"reason for requiring 2 different wrench sizes to tighten the fitting and the collar?" - of course: the size of the barb is dictated by the size of the tubing, which in turn dictates the size of the thread for the collar which in turn dictates the size of the Hex. The overall diameter of the Hex equals the diameter of the collar. But the normal distance between flats cannot be, because there is not enough material in the collar (due to threads). To have identical distance between flats on both Hex and Collar would require increasing the size of the Hex, which is terribly inelegant. So you can call this a concession to cosmetics.

[Utnorris]

Ok, so let me clarify, I am not opposed to tools being used on fittings. I have used them before, but not to the extent that it digs into the surface of the block. I tightened up some Enzotech 45 degree angle barbs last night with a wrench because for whatever reason the tubing kept twisting and loosening them up. As far the O-ring goes, I will re-check my various fittings and see which ones have the O-rings visible, but I do not recall seeing any before. Maybe it's one of those things where you do not notice till someone points it out to you.

[Kayin]

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bisishmuadbp.html No, like that. Lots of people are starting to use them to hardline systems with copper, I'm just going the extra mile to 316 stainless. I'd honestly rather buy American than I would anything else. With our economy in shambles, it just makes sense to buy from Americans if you can.

[gabe]

http://www.sidewindercomputers.com/bisishmuadbp.html No, like that. Lots of people are starting to use them to hardline systems with copper, I'm just going the extra mile to 316 stainless. I'd honestly rather buy American than I would anything else. With our economy in shambles, it just makes sense to buy from Americans if you can.

The link you posted is for BRass, not stainless, and this is a BP fitting, Made in Asia. You sure about your link ?

[Kayin]

Yup. My tubing is stainless, not my fittings. I wanted ones made like that but from the US. Every time I order from BP direct, it takes over a month to get here. But a fitting like that, with the two o-rings in it can be used with the appropriate diameter hard tubing to give a very clean appearance (no clamps, or huge compression nuts) and there are some people out there using them for 6 months or longer, so some people are thinking it's a good idea to take a cue from their builds and hardline our own. No plasticizer leach that way.

[gabe]

Yup. My tubing is stainless, not my fittings. I wanted ones made like that but from the US. Every time I order from BP direct, it takes over a month to get here. But a fitting like that, with the two o-rings in it can be used with the appropriate diameter hard tubing to give a very clean appearance (no clamps, or huge compression nuts) and there are some people out there using them for 6 months or longer, so some people are thinking it's a good idea to take a cue from their builds and hardline our own. No plasticizer leach that way.

I see. So you use this simply as a link between two pieces of straight tube butt to butt, right? How do you prevent the tubing from coming apart?

[Kayin]

Best anyone's been able to tell, it's simply the o-rings providing the compression on the tube. http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=226781 This thread is where a lot of us got the idea for it, but I'd rather get away from soft tubes and the inherent issues of plasticizers, clouding, kinking, and collapsing. As the idea for these fittings has been shown here (and I think there are some other builds doing it-nhenhophach comes to mind) they seem to hold just fine.

I could always mount them in a vise and drill them for 3 M3 setscrews. Fit them between the two o-rings, so if it pinches a touch it'll still contain the leaks.

I could use the plastic ones Swiftech used to use, but they're rather bulky compared to the BP option, making sure I can't use many blocks, etc-including many of Swiftech's own blocks. There's also Legris, but I can't get anybody to answer me on fitting sizes there. Nor asking people who have used them. So I settled on those by simple default. I know Koolance makes hard tubing fittings, at $9 a fitting. These are $3.50 or so. Simple economics. I thought about filling acrylic tubing with sand and trying to bend it. Kind of like how I bent tubes for my custom trumpet, or all the repairs I did on instruments in college. I've got a lot of time spent with hard tubing, and I've come to like it a lot more than soft tubing. Far fewer issues.

[Utnorris]

Interesting thought on using hard lines. My only issue is that due to them being hard lines is it is harder to remove a block without fully disassembling the hard line, which means draining the system. Quick disconnects and soft tubing allow you to remove a block without draining the entire system, which saves time. Quite honestly, I find that while you can get by on the bare basics, i.e. barbs, having adapters and such serve their purpose of making water cooling easier to setup and maintain. I would rather use hard lines, like I use to in between my GPU's, but setting up the CPU block with hard lines seems more of a PITA and strictly for looks than practicality reasons. I agree that using soft tubing runs it's own issues such as leaching, but you can always to neoprene which I do not believe leaches or a higher end food grade tubing that should minimize leaching. I have always liked builds with hard lines since they look clean and uncluttered, but then I think about how often i pull my system apart to swap gear and it does not make sense for me to use them.

On a side note to Gabe, do the regular black Swiftech barbs use the same plating process as the new compression fittings?

[gabe]

On a side note to Gabe, do the regular black Swiftech barbs use the same plating process as the new compression fittings?

It's not plating its paint. Yes we do use the same vendor, and the process is the same.

[Utnorris]

In the white paper it stated that using a tool will contribute in greatly reducing wear and scratches on the black painted versions of the fittings. Do you guys have a best practice method to aid in this? This is one thing I did not like about BP's or Enzotech, whenever a tool was used, whether it was a pair of pliers or an actual wrench, I still managed to scratch the finish, which defeats the point of getting black fittings only to see brass scratches on them after installation.

[gabe]

In the white paper it stated that using a tool will contribute in greatly reducing wear and scratches on the black painted versions of the fittings. Do you guys have a best practice method to aid in this? This is one thing I did not like about BP's or Enzotech, whenever a tool was used, whether it was a pair of pliers or an actual wrench, I still managed to scratch the finish, which defeats the point of getting black fittings only to see brass scratches on them after installation.

Pliers: there is very little surface for the jaws to grab onto the circular surface. So you'll rip the skin of the fitting.
Wrench: you can't use a wrench with a circular fitting, the wrench has nothing to grab onto. I think you must be thinking of another tool.

It's all in the amount of surface that the tool can grab. With a wrench, you grab two opposite surfaces, so the tool has plenty of leverage. Best practice (with an adjustable wrench) is to make it snug to the surfaces of the hex.

In the images below, you can clearly see how the adjustable range is snuggly adjusted to two opposite faces. No chances of ripping then.

[Sparky]

Another thing you can do to help prevent nicks from the wrench is to wrap the jaws in some electrical tape. Usually 1 layer is enough. It adds just enough cushion to not scratch up anything.

[gabe]

Another thing you can do to help prevent nicks from the wrench is to wrap the jaws in some electrical tape. Usually 1 layer is enough. It adds just enough cushion to not scratch up anything.

Excerpt from white paper, page 3 of 9:

".. Experienced/careful users know better of course. But in the vast majority of cases, the only tool available to them to tighten their compression fittings properly are a pair of pliers. Unfortunately, using steel pliers on soft brass irrevocably damages the nice knurled surface finish of the fitting, and when each fitting may cost up to $10 each, frustration understandably runs high! It in turn compels our experienced users to wrap the plier’s jaws with some sort of protection such as tape or fabric. After fastening (or loosening) a few fittings though, the tape or fabric often wears out, leaving bare metal against bare metal, and damage occurs again. With black fittings in particular, the black Sharpie pen for touch-ups has now become another essential tool among experienced liquid cooled computer builders!.."

:-)

[Sparky]

I meant use the tape on a wrench, not pliers. Pliers on fittings is a bad idea because of scratching. I would never recommend using a set of pliers, tape or not.

Plus I would always check the condition of the tape after each fitting is tightened just to be safe.

[gabe]

I meant use the tape on a wrench, not pliers. Pliers on fittings is a bad idea because of scratching. I would never recommend using a set of pliers, tape or not.

Plus I would always check the condition of the tape after each fitting is tightened just to be safe.

Ahh, so you mean protecting the wrench when using our Lok-Seal fittings, then. You can if you want, but there is no need really. If the tool is snug with the fitting, it doesn't damage it.

[Kayin]

Since I don't pull my system apart all that often, I don't need quick disconnects. I have lots of PCs around here (since I still build a bit for others) that may only get pulled apart every two years for upgrading. Or, if they get clogged with plasticizer. It's been a major thorn in my side.

And as for those blasted fittings, they make builds look like trash. Honestly, they make people lazy with tubing routing. I started when we were all using hardware store tubing, and I remember people doing things like boiling tubing with a stiffening rod in it to form it to shape. Now we don't give a rip what the bends are, let's just stick X fitting on it. It's lazy routing. It's become a fight to see who can spend more in fittings. But, then again, watercooling has more become a place to show off how much money you have than anything about cooling for the most part. I'm looking for a solution that is for the most part bulletproof. If I can just figure out, like Gabe said, how the tubing stays in those fittings, I won't have to worry about stuff growing in my tubes (no access to light,) plasticizer coming out of my tubing and clogging a block, no kinks, no collapsed tubing, just the freedom to game on the PC in peace. System doesn't have a window either. I'm not doing stainless for the looks, I'm doing it for the nonreactivity. Swiftech's chrome plating would come in real handy there, but like I said, no more soft tubing for me. I have such incredibly limited space anyway that I need the tight routing that hard lines can give. Of course, that's what I get for modifying an OEM case. But it's more fun that way.

[Waterlogged]

Kayin, use push-in's from Mcmaster or MSC. Push-in's are far safer than those stupid BP crystal link ends as they actually offer both an o-ring and a grasping ring (in most cases, the ring material is SS). Mcmaster has Delrin (black) from John Guest and nickel plated brass from Legris and MSC carries nickel plated brass from both Legris and Norgren.

Not sure why but, I see Gabe going full circle on fittings.

[neonatas]

Lots of love to swiftech for making pretty looking fittings(and all of there other great product). But please stop with the horse .

If that piece of paper was true in any sence, i would have experience daily leakage or something silly.
I always hand tighten my fittings (feser,koolance,bp) and bend my tubes like they naturally bend, if you dont do that, yes they will/might loosen the fittings, but if your such a big idiot, you deserve nothing less.

Swiftech is basically advertising that they invented something new, its not 1995 where we all go teflon on our fittings. And since its 2012, who the uses tools to tighten a fitting? Install blocks and fittings and tubing on components before you put your hardware in your case, and its done.

This hobby requires some common sence, and a big fat wallet. If you dont have both, your not ready for it. <--- that should be the entire manual!

[Kayin]

So can I. Thanks for the recommendation. At least those have a positive grip on the tube. Now to find the right sizes, but that's far better than what I was looking at.

[Waterlogged]

Lots of love to swiftech for making pretty looking fittings(and all of there other great product). But please stop with the horse .

If that piece of paper was true in any sence, i would have experience daily leakage or something silly.
I always hand tighten my fittings (feser,koolance,bp) and bend my tubes like they naturally bend, if you dont do that, yes they will/might loosen the fittings, but if your such a big idiot, you deserve nothing less.

Swiftech is basically advertising that they invented something new, its not 1995 where we all go teflon on our fittings. And since its 2012, who the uses tools to tighten a fitting? Install blocks and fittings and tubing on components before you put your hardware in your case, and its done.

This hobby requires some common sence, and a big fat wallet. If you dont have both, your not ready for it. <--- that should be the entire manual!

I've been water cooling since early 2003 and after I joined Danger Den's forum in late '04, it didn't take me very long to come to the conclusion that I should never under estimate the depth of stupidity of ppl who think they can figure out water cooling. I think if they were willing to step forward and actually admit it, the number of folks that use tools on their fittings would astound you.

So can I. Thanks for the recommendation. At least those have a positive grip on the tube. Now to find the right sizes, but that's far better than what I was looking at.

NP, I still have a bunch of my old 12mm Legris and 10mm JG fittings laying around here, been think about using them again. What would be sweet is a QDC version of a push-in.

[MengNa]

I'm very much a fan of Swiftech, but I gotta say that this whitepaper reads a lot like propaganda and scare tactics.
The contents of it might be true, I wouldn't know as I'm no expert, but the way it's presented seems to suggest that there's some pandemic of leaky fittings and that I'm basically playing Russian roulette with my computer unless I use your fittings.
Now, I built my first WC loop 8 months ago and it's been running 24/7 since then using BP compression fittings without a single leak and no maintenance, and all it took for me to achieve that outcome was to do my research and read a proper guide on how to install everything.
Now here's a bit of a conundrum; the kind of people who would buy these fittings specifically because of the claims in the whitepaper are the same people who would likely know how to properly install any other kind of fitting, and the people who need these fittings because they don't know how to install other fittings properly would most likely not have any knowledge of your fittings and their supposed advantages. Kind of a catch 22 huh?
Anyway, I wish Swiftech all the best with your new products, and I'm personally looking forward to the Maelstrom reservoir. Edit: Also waiting for the 140mm rads, so hurry up please