Swiftech® introduces new Lok-Seal™ brand of compression fittings

[RCG_Bex]

Nice. Barbs that won't destroy my hands :P

[rge]

Lots of love to swiftech for making pretty looking fittings(and all of there other great product). But please stop with the horse .

If that piece of paper was true in any sence, i would have experience daily leakage or something silly.
I always hand tighten my fittings (feser,koolance,bp) and bend my tubes like they naturally bend, if you dont do that, yes they will/might loosen the fittings, but if your such a big idiot, you deserve nothing less.

Swiftech is basically advertising that they invented something new, its not 1995 where we all go teflon on our fittings. And since its 2012, who the uses tools to tighten a fitting? Install blocks and fittings and tubing on components before you put your hardware in your case, and its done.

This hobby requires some common sence, and a big fat wallet. If you dont have both, your not ready for it. <--- that should be the entire manual!

Ive been watercooling for 9 years, and I have always, and will always use a wrench for about a 1/8 to 1/4 turn past hand tight (as do many others). Although I only leak test for 10 mins, because I know Im not going to have a leak, so not every body does the same thing in watercooling, imagine that. I can grab tubing and twist and loosen a hand tightened fitting, and with $6K worth of hardware, I can take a few seconds and tighten the fitting 1/8-1/4 past hand tight, but again, to each their own. Not to mention making tight bends for aesthetic reasons which will put some torque on fitting. Also, with 13 compression fittings in my current build, after modding case and hands/fingers sore or testing where switching components frequently, I use wrench to even screw down tubing side to spare the skin on my fingers.

I never worried about my bitspower leaking either, because I tightened those the same way, and have the marred finish after many years to show for it. I am glad someone made a fitting that can be easily wrench tightened for those that do so, with less risk to marring finish, not to mention more control over fitting coming apart or off the block when unscrewing, because with BP its a crapshoot.

[gabe]

If that piece of paper was true in any sence, i would have experience daily leakage or something silly.
I always hand tighten my fittings (feser,koolance,bp) and bend my tubes like they naturally bend, if you dont do that, yes they will/might loosen the fittings, but if your such a big idiot, you deserve nothing less.

Swiftech is basically advertising that they invented something new, its not 1995 where we all go teflon on our fittings. And since its 2012, who the uses tools to tighten a fitting? Install blocks and fittings and tubing on components before you put your hardware in your case, and its done.

"If that piece of paper was true in any sence": I strongly object to this sentence, the inferences being that I am either lying or misrepresenting things. I reported my experience as is. Do you really think I made it up? FYI, the number of people who have read this paper and concurred with my experience is astonishing. I'm getting feed-back from several forums with ppl saying yes, it happened to me. The fact that it didn't happen to you doesn't mean that what I say is untrue. I am talking about odds. That means it happens to some ppl and it doesn't happen to others. But the odds that it happens should be as small as possible.

"yes they will/might loosen the fittings": so at least my statement about this was true, wasn'it?

"Swiftech is basically advertising that they invented something new": That statement is because I repeatedly explain in the WP that other industries use hexes to fasten their fittings. If I observed this from others how could I be claiming that I reinvented the wheel? You sound deliberately negative, and I truly don't understand why.

"who the uses tools to tighten a fitting": I had a PM with Utnorris where I compared tightening your fittings by hand akin to tightening the bolts on your wheels by hand. Even if it's admitedly a bit of a parabole, what I mean is why take chances, even if it works? Forums are full of ppl who developped leaks that way. I am saying the odds are not good. when something is wrong with a product, consumers claim to want zero defect. Why not applying the same principle here?

"Install blocks and fittings and tubing on components before you put your hardware in your case": this is the only statement you make that I fully agree with (spelled out as "recommended" on every product page of the Lok-Seal fittings btw)

Kayin, use push-in's from Mcmaster or MSC. Push-in's are far safer than those stupid BP crystal link ends as they actually offer both an o-ring and a grasping ring (in most cases, the ring material is SS). Mcmaster has Delrin (black) from John Guest and nickel plated brass from Legris and MSC carries nickel plated brass from both Legris and Norgren.

Not sure why but, I see Gabe going full circle on fittings.

"John Guest and nickel plated brass from Legris ": Yes these are very safe :-)

"I see Gabe going full circle on fittings": Not sure I understand the joke, but I think I recall you asking me for fittings, no?

I'm very much a fan of Swiftech, but I gotta say that this whitepaper reads a lot like propaganda and scare tactics.
The contents of it might be true, I wouldn't know as I'm no expert, but the way it's presented seems to suggest that there's some pandemic of leaky fittings and that I'm basically playing Russian roulette with my computer unless I use your fittings.
Now, I built my first WC loop 8 months ago and it's been running 24/7 since then using BP compression fittings without a single leak and no maintenance, and all it took for me to achieve that outcome was to do my research and read a proper guide on how to install everything.

"I gotta say that this whitepaper reads a lot like propaganda and scare tactics"
Part one describes problems, and problems can be scary. If you choose to read this as scare tactics, I can't help it. But the problems do remain. Part two presents our solution to the stated problems. If you choose to read it as propaganda, a word that typically characterizes authoritarian governments, and carries a very bad connotation, I am not sure it applies, but I can't help how you judge things. But when you say that I make it sound like you are playing russian roulette when tightening your fittings by hand, then I have to agree. I had a fitting loosen and spring a leak after more than a year.. and btw, it wasn't even a compression fitting. It was a barb.. with a hex! I just didn't tighten it enough with the &**^ wrench. When this happens, hard realities do sink in believe me; following the same line of thought, when I imagine so many ppl installing so many fittings by hand, I can't help but to shiver.

So no, you are wrong. It's not just about using our fittings, it's about doing the job right. If ppl tighten their KL, BP etc with a pair of pliers, then no problem. it's just a pain to do, and it damages the fitting in the process. If you can't agree to that, your'e just not being honest with yourself.

Ive been watercooling for 9 years, and I have always, and will always use a wrench for about a 1/8 to 1/4 turn past hand tight (as do many others). Although I only leak test for 10 mins, because I know Im not going to have a leak, so not every body does the same thing in watercooling, imagine that. I can grab tubing and twist and loosen a hand tightened fitting, and with $6K worth of hardware, I can take a few seconds and tighten the fitting 1/8-1/4 past hand tight, but again, to each their own. Not to mention making tight bends for aesthetic reasons which will put some torque on fitting. Also, with 13 compression fittings in my current build, after modding case and hands/fingers sore or testing where switching components frequently, I use wrench to even screw down tubing side to spare the skin on my fingers.

I never worried about my bitspower leaking either, because I tightened those the same way, and have the marred finish after many years to show for it. I am glad someone made a fitting that can be easily wrench tightened for those that do so, with less risk to marring finish, not to mention more control over fitting coming apart or off the block when unscrewing, because with BP its a crapshoot.

Thank you. I rest my case. I didn't reinvent the wheel with our fittings. I tried to make them safer to use. That's all.

[Kayin]

I don't see this is either alarmist or propaganda. I've got a whole bucket of fittings here that bear scars that attest to the veracity of those claims. The simple change of flats would make a world of difference, but hard chrome survives on my socket set-I have no reason to think that it wouldn't hold up on these. That was my whole point in wishing they were what I needed for my build.

It was John Guest fittings that Swiftech used back in the day, right?

[MengNa]

"I gotta say that this whitepaper reads a lot like propaganda and scare tactics"
Part one describes problems, and problems can be scary. If you choose to read this as scare tactics, I can't help it. But the problems do remain. Part two presents our solution to the stated problems. If you choose to read it as propaganda, a word that typically characterizes authoritarian governments, and carries a very bad connotation, I am not sure it applies, but I can't help how you judge things. But when you say that I make it sound like you are playing russian roulette when tightening your fittings by hand, then I have to agree. I had a fitting loosen and spring a leak after more than a year.. and btw, it wasn't even a compression fitting. It was a barb.. with a hex! I just didn't tighten it enough with the &**^ wrench. When this happens, hard realities do sink in believe me; following the same line of thought, when I imagine so many ppl installing so many fittings by hand, I can't help but to shiver.

So no, you are wrong. It's not just about using our fittings, it's about doing the job right. If ppl tighten their KL, BP etc with a pair of pliers, then no problem. it's just a pain to do, and it damages the fitting in the process. If you can't agree to that, your'e just not being honest with yourself.

Gabe, I wasn't disputing the validity of your claims, and I do in general agree with the information in the whitepaper. It's just that, to *me*, the way the information is phrased and presented reads like scare tactics. I can't change how I perceive things...
And honestly, even with your new fittings all this water cooling stuff is still playing Russian roulette, as even a perfectly installed fitting can spring a leak. Even the pre-sealed kits from the likes of Corsair have some chance of leaks, however small. I do however appreciate the fact that you're trying to help people minimize that risk.

[wez]

IMO, tool tightened barbs = bad in this day and age with so much delrin parts.

Most people got enough common sense not to over tightening, but considering how LC is moving more into the mainstream, its bound to happen. Just a week ago some guy complained that his GPU where overheating, even when he had "watercooling". He had a waterblock, but nothing else...

[Romir]

I appreciated the white paper because I discovered some of my fittings leaked when using an Iwaki pump. Since then I've become paranoid about blindly buying new fittings. Knowing Swiftech has put all types of function first, over style, will get them sales from me.

[Marcusk]

How much should you turn them on a plexi block? I heard plexi cracks easiely.

[gabe]

IMO, tool tightened barbs = bad in this day and age with so much delrin parts.

Most people got enough common sense not to over tightening, but considering how LC is moving more into the mainstream, its bound to happen. Just a week ago some guy complained that his GPU where overheating, even when he had "watercooling". He had a waterblock, but nothing else...

I had a somewhat heated private discussion with one of the mods at OCAU, who was really concerned about this. My answer was this:

1. Educate people by providing as much information as possible for proper use. The following drawing was born out of this discussion:


2. What about those who don't read the instructions, what if they crack their block?
And my answer was this: what costs more? a fried graphics card and/or motherboard because of a leak, or a cracked water-block ?

I think that once a guy cracks a waterblock, next time around he will either not buy our fitting, or pay attention. Life is full of costly mistakes. The trick is to reduce their cost.

How much should you turn them on a plexi block? I heard plexi cracks easiely.

see above :-) - You 'll be safe at 1/4 turn :-)

[Waterlogged]

"I see Gabe going full circle on fittings": Not sure I understand the joke, but I think I recall you asking me for fittings, no?

Can't honestly say I did or didn't as I truly don't recall. I will say that if I did ask Swiftech to make fittings, they would have been the push-in variety as that is what I used for a very long time. I've since switched to Koolance barbs and am quite happy with them, never really bought into the whole compression fad. I remember well the days when DD Hi flows barbs ruled the market and I also curse those same fittings because they were/are an extremely poor excuse for properly designed fittings (no captive o-ring) because they were one of the first steps (and likely one of the more important steps with the switch from 9/16-18 threads to the Euro "G" standard) to the evolution to the current day fittings. They are easily capable of doing everything you mention in your white paper and I shudder at the thought of all the hardware they killed over the years they were used.

I do know I've been pestering you for further info on the 140 rads and my last few posts on the subject have been completely ignored by you and Stephen. I was originally told somewhere around end of March/April and here we are now mid April and not a peep more has been said

...and the joke was in relation to your old MCW500x and MCW600x era blocks that used push-ins of one manner or another.

[zeroibis]

I have always used mini channel locks to install compression fittings. This applies to the install to the block and the tube. Although with a tube I actually use a second clamp so that I do not risk turning the fitting any more while I am tightening the tube on. As for over tightening I have always just gone by how it feels. I just keep going until the amount of force that I am using needs to be increased at which point I examine the link and then stop and that has been my universal method for screwing everything.

As for the discussion on leak testing I do this and bleeding before installation. I run the stuff out of the system and try to get every bubble out. I have it run for about 12 hours and then put it in the system and then top it off.