Keep your Sandy Bridge!

[QuadDamage]

Maybe Intel decided to cripple Ivy because they have so many SB they need to sell first.

Intel didn't cripple IB on purpose. They are simply testing waters with the new 22nm/tri-gate uarch and so far it doesn't look all that great TBF, the fact that they're already on E1 stepping says it all really. With that said, the Ivy brings nothing new to the table 24/7 performance wise and the 2400 ram support is a bit of a joke considering any benefits from using high frequency memory running at crappy timings are next to none.

However, it is going to be a decent sub-zero benching chip for sure. 6 Gees+ Ivy paired with some of the finest 3000Mhz+ elite memory will smash many records.

[v0dka]

Intel didn't cripple IB on purpose. They are simply testing waters with the new 22nm/tri-gate uarch and so far it doesn't look all that great TBF, the fact that they're already on E1 stepping says it all really. With that said, the Ivy brings nothing new to the table 24/7 performance wise and the 2400 ram support is a bit of a joke considering any benefits from using high frequency memory running at crappy timings are next to none.

However, it is going to be a decent sub-zero benching chip for sure. 6 Gees+ Ivy paired with some of the finest 3000Mhz+ elite memory will smash many records.

I thought it would have been clear that my remark wasn't serious.

[herderien]

are you sure?

on a clock to clock basis yes, or was it irony ? ^^

[QuadDamage]

I thought it would have been clear that my remark wasn't serious.

To you, maybe.

[PatRaceTin]

Look like many reviewer playing 3770K / 3570K

I will wait for them

[hersounds]

NEW DATA ADDED

Why is Ivy Bridge HOT, power hunger and bad clocker? - immatured 22nm process ...

Maybe you know, Ivy Bridge are around the corner. Maybe you knows too, they are worst clocker then Sandy Bridge. We know why ...

As you know, Intel is with the 22nm production late. Production is not good, and there are big problems with the chips. The original "on paper" concept of 22nm chip with Tri-gate transistors is extremely low supply voltage. But, with current revisions Intel can not keep voltage in planned values. This is a problem. The chips have a higher voltage than planned, broadly comparable with Sandy Bridge. And that's wrong.

Tri-gate transistor needs to switch to a lower voltage. But for a correct recognition of the I/O status needs more current than planar transistor. Three-gate area is greater than one-gate and the current is several times higher than in Sandy Bridge chips. When Intel reach a planned low voltage, everything will be fine. Lower voltage means acceptable currents, less leakage and a great consumption. Unfortunately, it does not meet the current "E1" revision.

Current 22nm chips have high voltage, higher than they should have. The values are similar to Sandy Bridge chips. Properly should be the default voltage below 1V and it is not now. But Ivy Bridge needs a lower voltage, at the same voltage as Sandy Bridge consumption and temperature is significantly higher due to higher currents in the chip.

Basic Ivy Bridge idle voltage is above 1V, higher than Sandy Bridge. The load voltage is lower than that of Sandy Bridge and consumption is lower, but temperatures are higher. If the Ivy Bridge voltage increases, consumption and temperatures extremely jumps up. This problem can be solved only by improving the production, so maybe its time for another revision. Indeed it may be a potential problem in laptops with the highest third-generation Core i7 models.

In the desktop this problem occur with less overclocking than Sandy Bridge and significantly higher power consumption and temperatures. If you have a nice 5GHz + Sandy Bridge, keep it for now. Ivy Bridge ends with overclocking on the air somewhere around 4.6 to 4.7 GHz. But slightly lower overclocking then Sandies compensates higher performance per clock, so it is not a major problem.

Source:OBR

[Nelly]

Well sounds about right... http://forums.aria.co.uk/showthread.php/100021-3rd-GEN-Intel-CPU-Semi-Stable-Testing-*Preview*-56K-WARNING

Hi Guys,

First things first, this is a preview only and does not contain any comparison benchmarks of either Intel' or AMDs latest crop of CPUs.

This is only initial testing to gauge an idea of what the CPU could possibly do. Stability testing done for a short amount of time only - semi-stable.

This is the first Retail E1 Stepping 9 3rd GEN CPU I have tested. This is not an ES E0 Stepping 8. There will be differences between Retail and ES.

Test Setup:
Intel 3rd GEN i5-3XXXK 3.40GHz (Turbo frequency 3800MHz) Processor
MSI Z77A-GD55 Z77 Motherboard
GeiL EVO CORSA 4GB (2x2GB) DDR3 2133MHz 10-11-11-30 1.5v @ stock
Corsair H100 Water-Cooling CPU Cooler @ medium fan speed
Microsoft Windows 7 Premium 64-Bit SP1

Overclocking Test Summary - LinX 0.6.4 (5 passes):
4.20GHz semi-stable - 1.1v - PASS *TEMPS OK*
4.30GHz semi-stable - 1.1v - PASS **TEMPS OK*
4.40GHz semi-stable - 1.13v - PASS *TEMPS OK*
4.50GHz semi-stable - 1.17v - PASS *TEMPS OK*
4.60GHz semi-stable - 1.23v - PASS *TEMPS WARNING*

LinX 0.6.4 Testing Screenshots:

4.20GHz semi-stable - 1.1v - PASS *TEMPS OK*


4.30GHz semi-stable - 1.1v - PASS **TEMPS OK*


4.40GHz semi-stable - 1.13v - PASS *TEMPS OK*


4.50GHz semi-stable - 1.17v - PASS *TEMPS OK*


4.60GHz semi-stable - 1.23v - PASS *TEMPS WARNING*


LinX Analysis:
Quite surprised about the lack of voltage needed for the same Overclocks as Sandy Bridge "K" SKUs. What I wasn't expecting was the temperatures. If you try and put more than 1.3v (on this particular CPU), temps seems to skyrocket. However thinking about it, 22nm, smaller die size and a lot of voltage would seem to suggest high temps. I just wasn't expecting to see that with just 1.25-1.3v.

OCCT 4.2.0 Testing:
As LinX is a killer when it comes down to torchering the CPU under load, many people choose not to use this application while looking for stability. You won't find any other application that pushes a CPU so hard as LinX which is why some people prefer to use Prime95 or OCCT to measure stability as 95% of people will never push their CPUs so hard like LinX does. OCCT for example gives a better "real-world" scenario when it comes to load stability testing.

As I was hitting the top end temperatures with LinX, I couldn't push anymore without causing harm to the CPU. Below is a better real-world experience with load testing & temperatures under OCCT.

Overclocking Test Summary - OCCT 4.2.0 (15 minutes):
4.50GHz semi-stable - 1.22v - PASS *TEMPS OK*
4.60GHz semi-stable - 1.22v - PASS **TEMPS OK*


OCCT 4.2.0 Testing Screenshots:

4.50GHz semi-stable - 1.22v - PASS *TEMPS OK*



4.60GHz semi-stable - 1.22v - PASS*TEMPS OK*


OCCT 4.2.0 Analysis:
A lot better this time around with regards to temps under load. LinX usually adds a good 10-15C over Prime95 and OCCT so this was expected. However after this initial testing, it does appear in these early stages that 4.60GHz (multi wise) is the max stable OC of this particular chip. I did try for 4.7 & 4.8GHz but the chip was found to be unstable within the first 10 minutes of OCCT. Increasing some of the voltage settings within the BIOS did not help stabilize the higher OCs and temps skyrocketed again.

General Short Summary:
In short, these 3rd GEN Intel CPUs are a world away from Sandy Bridge Overclocking. You can't simply chuck in 1.3 - 1.35v and look for early stability indications like with Sandy Bridge. Doing so and you'll find yourself hitting between 90-100C (under LinX). Low voltage seems to be the key here along with a very decent cooling setup. Regarding cooling, I'm going to have to suggest to those guys Overclocking on air to be careful or stick with Sandy Bridge if your CPU is capable of a decent stable 4.7-4.80GHz OC on air cooling.

Those people who have a sub £35 air cooler may need to stick to a low OC or invest in a better cooling method. You'll notice I was using the top end Corsair H100 and if those are the temps I was getting, you will struggle of a regular air cooler. You will need to look at getting a H100 or H80, or a top end air cooling solution like the be quiet Dark Rock Pro or Noctua NH-D14.

For now I can only really suggest the 3rd GEN CPUs to serious Overclockers using high-end cooling methods like Phase, DICE or LN2. Those with decent custom WC loops will also benefit from these CPUs.

I not trying to put you off these 3rd GEN CPUs as I have benchmarked this and it's a nice (albeit small) improvement over Sandy Bridge, but you will need some better cooling for high OCs.

[v0dka]

To you, maybe.

Why would I have added a at the end of a clearly absurd statement? You seem as serious as your avatar. Maybe try to relax a bit.

[iboomalot]

For your 24/7 build and you are aware of energy costs, i would consider ivy...

LMAO u are kidding ???

at 12 cents a kilowatt at 100% load 24hr-365days = less than $30 for the year.

even the Ivy CPU at 0 watts the savings is only $163 a year.

[RPGWiZaRD]

This may sound silly but how can we know for sure that the temperature readings are correct? Any1 inserted a small probe yet or something? :P Because voltage wise there would still be a headroom if temperature readings are excluded and the voltage increase needed for 100MHz higher clock doesn't go out of hand either (fairly linear increase), usually if temps gets out of hands it should at least be noticable in the voltage scaling.

Just my 0.20, would be pretty funny if it turned out to be an issue with the internal temp probes / software as of today in combination of a new arch etc.

[Manicdan]

This may sound silly but how can we know for sure that the temperature readings are correct? Any1 inserted a small probe yet or something? :P Because voltage wise there would still be a headroom if temperature readings are excluded and the voltage increase needed for 100MHz higher clock doesn't go out of hand either (fairly linear increase), usually if temps gets out of hands it should at least be noticable in the voltage scaling.

Just my 0.20, would be pretty funny if it turned out to be an issue with the internal temp probes / software as of today in combination of a new arch etc.

this is a good point.
looking at how 1.23v brings temps to 90C on a corsair H100 sounds like this thing is pushing 200W of TDP, which comes to 250w from the wall, (or in better terms, as bad as an OCed BD)

to test this easily, just put SB and Ivy on the same heatsink and fan speed, and measure the temps of the fins or heatpipes, or water, or whatever heat dissipation unit is used on both.

[Leeghoofd]

it's very noticeable in voltage scaling, needing a big bump to get 100Mhz more... if it starts to throttle think the temps are too high Or BSOD & locks up, and voltage doesn't help to stabilise... sorry to shatter your dreams... there will be very few 5Ghz daily CPU unless advanced watercooled ( and that's not an H100 ) and/or new steppings increase the OC potential. Though never forget the efficiency of the new architecture... it's not all about raw Mhz... Even If it drew as much watts as BD, at least the performance is worlds apart :p

[Boulard83]

After reading all this thread ... im not sure im goind for an Ivy or an SB on my next "little" build ...

Going to cool with a Notcua on a P8Z77 M Pro inside a fractal Define Mini .... 4.2ghz is what i aim for 24/7 and seems to ben EZ on a IVY but what about clocking/benching session ... I was able to clock a 2600k over 5ghz with this noctua cooler ....

Lunch date is near and im waiting for more retail reviews.....

[rintamarotta]

I will be getting one of those Ivy's for 24/7 use. Cooled by Phase Change ofc.
Temps wont be problem or power usage.

[solofly]

im not sure im goind for an Ivy or an SB on my next "little" build ...

I'm still going IB cause I want PCIe 3.0 where SB isnt capable of it...

[Boulard83]

I'm still going IB cause I want PCIe 3.0 where SB isnt capable of it...

I dont think ill go multi GPU on this one. Xingle 2.0 X16 is way enough for something like a GTX680 or even a dual gpu GTX690 ( or anything they name it ).

Im going mATX and Mini tower with insulation foam for a good little rig. Im not gaming that much anymore and this 3930K is sleeping on my desk


Edit : An Asus Z77 mPro seems to be a good choice for me. But my main question as about the CPU .... waiting for Ivy or getting a 2550k ..

[Halk]

I just want to check my understand is correct on this explanation. Essentially at stock IB is more efficient than SB, a touch faster clock for clock and uses less power. However when you go past a mild overclock the efficiency fades and by the time you're at 4.5Ghz you're drinking more power than SB, and the smaller, more compact CPU is struggling with the heat.

So IB is still a fair choice for moderate folks who aren't likely to go beyond a 1 Ghz overclock, and who may run it at stock for a year or two until something arrives that actually taxes it?

[Boulard83]

I just want to check my understand is correct on this explanation. Essentially at stock IB is more efficient than SB, a touch faster clock for clock and uses less power. However when you go past a mild overclock the efficiency fades and by the time you're at 4.5Ghz you're drinking more power than SB, and the smaller, more compact CPU is struggling with the heat.

So IB is still a fair choice for moderate folks who aren't likely to go beyond a 1 Ghz overclock, and who may run it at stock for a year or two until something arrives that actually taxes it?

This seems exact. My tipical 24/7 oc is around 4.2 to 4.4ghz but i like to bench sometime and being stuck at 4.6-4.8ghz with a high end air is bad VS a 2500/2600K that can reach 5ghz on air. Even Water dont seems to really help with IB, you need exotic cooling to get more mhz.

[Halk]

Thanks Boulard. While what's being said here is really just guesswork at this stage.. it does have a real ring of truth to it. Everything Intel has done about delays etc would seem to fit with this. I had read this and taken a step back about IB, but it seems while it does affect the typical XS use of it, for us tired old codgers who don't really have an interest in extreme stuff any more it's still suitable. I may consider waiting for new stepping, but I think I'm going to go ahead with it.

[sin0822]

My 2600k does 5.2ghz max valid, and a few hundred mhz lower for max prime95, with the same cooling my 3rd gen does better on both accounts. luck of the draw I guess, I am sure you will see better retails.

[Boulard83]

My 2600k does 5.2ghz max valid, and a few hundred mhz lower for max prime95, with the same cooling my 3rd gen does better on both accounts. luck of the draw I guess, I am sure you will see better retails.

On air ?

[sin0822]

yes on a spire eclipse 2.

[Dumo]

yes on a spire eclipse 2.

Thats the cooler I just bought @ MC tonite, its on sale for $18....Nice buid

Spent an hour to decide which air cooler I should get for Ivy, all look the same. Lol

[sixfootduo]

I picked up a new in the box "Cooler Express 2011 Phase Change" Unit off Craigslist a few weeks ago for $300. The guy never got a chance to use it he said before he moved to Apple. I've always wanted one. The price was a bit expensive but I knew I could overclock like hell with one of these. Looks like if I do pick up the IB, with the heat issues everyone is talking about, this Cooler Express Phase Change should help maintain 5Ghz+ speeds. I currently have a SB running at 4.9Ghz for over a year now. Not sure I'm going to see much different between the two different speeds.

[labs23]

Intel cuts IB's price before launching them, if true then its an admission of something(more reason to keep your SB?).
http://vr-zone.com/articles/intel-cu...nch/15557.html