Pitcairn is a really good chip
Pitcairn is a really good chip
See, I don't agree with that. As it stands the HD 7870 will completely cut the HD 7950's sales off at the knees. If they had made the HD 7870's price any lower, they would have also had to reduce the price of the HD 7950 and HD 7970. I think $350 is good for that card but that isn't to say that AMD didn't leave themselves with a bit of wiggle room for when NVIDIA drops their cards.
350$ for 212mm^2 die is expensive.
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I think it is wafer availability at this point. A chip this small has to have pretty decent yields. 28nm is less problematic than 40nm, so yields should be better this generation. I think Apple is likely gobbling up as much wafers as they can with the new ipad and this leaves little else for everyone else. And most of these companies also have a mobile game they need to focus on so this dilutes the wafer for desktop parts further. TSMC is producing is very small amount of 28nm chips at the moment.
I think the 7970 although appears to be selling well, I think the installed base is being inflated from this, generally from lack of cards being made. If you look at the steam hardware survey, they are not even on the list yet. From the past, new cards usually take a month to get on the list but they aren't on there.
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Sorry in advance for the thread-crap but let me get this straight.... the HD7870 is only marginally better than a GTX570, which is only marginally (within 10%) of a now 2 year old GTX480 and that is being heralded as the kingdom-come of video cards?
Have I missed something or does this seem like a really ty card to me? What happened to 50% per gen?
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I mean to work with, not with new problems popping up in general as the process gets smaller. Both companies have said 28nm is easier to work with and yields are better than 40nm.
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I read on different article the actual MSRP given is just the one transmit from Sapphire and other partners, and will allready be possibly a little bit lower at full availability. one can confirm ?
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Lol 3-5% slower in relative performance of a GTX580 ( 1920x1080, 2560x1600, AA etc ), faster in some case, slower in some ( of some few fps ( 1 fps in some, 3-4 in other ) .. this card is midrange...
most AIB cards are overclocked ( 5-10% ), the boost should put the 580 behind...
Last edited by Lanek; 03-05-2012 at 02:22 PM.
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That was during the time when there was a lowend too. Now the low end is disappearing, the death blow will be dealt when Ivy Bridge and Trinity are out. The old midrange becomes the new low end. But prices won't change, they will possibly go up even further to fuel R&D. The rules are changing, get used to it, that's how it will look like from now on.
Last edited by DarthShader; 03-05-2012 at 02:05 PM.
Simply going by the published marketshare the manufactures may want folks to think like that but the reality was out of ~68 million discrete video cards sold only 3 million units sold where priced at $300+. The 7850 is getting closer the the meat and potatoes of the midrange.
If you look at performance per mm2 sure things look excellent but its also on 28nm, there should be improvements per mm2 over competing 40nm in this regard.
Offering part at $350 that performs in the ball park of last generation hardware for the same price takes away allot of the luster of the 7870, price performance wise it's back to the future. That is unless you are focused on performance per mm2 on 28nm and power consumption but the raw price performance ratio is old school, the consumer didn't really gain here.
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$500+ is not mid range, and I expect a mid-range card to be a good 50% per gen than last one, or atleast ffs the same increase coming off the die shrink. In this occasion we have neither
I paid $600 for a pair of GTX470s at launch, which is the same price of the HD7870s and 2 years later are for all intensive purposes are equal (10% better which is erased by my overclocking)... really?
Exactly; what does this perf per watt do exactly? On a desktop? Nothing. The wattage difference isn't enough to even justify the ROI on buying a card simply for the sake of saving energy. Its a lose-lose no matter how you slice it. Unless Kepler is significantly better I see these last 2 years being a total bust for GFX parts. I have never kept a video card more than 15 months and here I am going on almost 24 with no real reason to buy something else.... wtf happened?
Last edited by Sentential; 03-05-2012 at 02:33 PM.
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That was last year. I am talking about this year and the years to come. How many of those 68M were cards for like 100$-120$ or less? When Kaveri comes with a lower clocked 7750 inside and Haswell with rumoured 40CUs, who is going to buy such cards? Who is even going to produce them?
A 7870 is close to being 50% faster than a 6870. And for intensive purposes a good 40% faster than one of your GTX470, which is going to grow as VRAM limit kicks in. Where do you take your data from??
Consoles, APUs, physics being a mean b!tch for lower node processes... get used to it, it won't get better anymore, only worse.I have never kept a video card more than 15 months and here I am going on almost 24 with no real reason to buy something else.... wtf happened?
This is the point a lot of people are missing I think. We are almost to the point where for the typical computer there will be no need for a discrete GPU. The only exception I can immediately think of are the cases where you want to drive multiple monitors and that alone is a connectivity issue, not a resource issue. Within a generation or two NVIDIA and AMD discrete GPUs will be solely for gamers and GPGPU compute users.
One can only hope that the AMD GPU division gets a cut of all the APU sales so as to continue R&D on the discrete GPUs that drive the integrated GPUs forward.
^^ yeah it all seems to be pointing out to that type of market strategy (form OEM makers this is the better choice).
Also in regard to people saying that $300 is not mid-range, this largely depends on so many factors I wouldn't even know where to begin. But if a company's mid range products can compete with a rival's (last gen higher end) this don't mean prices will be like those from mid-range, specially when needing to clear out old stock.
The crazy thing is that 7870 OCed comes very close to 7970 or even can beat it in some cases... Sure you can OC 7970 too,but the point is price difference which is quite big.
Last edited by Lanek; 03-05-2012 at 05:13 PM.
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yeah that's insane, 7870 is sure to be the GTX460 of AMD, good price point and plenty of OC headroom.
for its die size, the engineers have done wonders with Pitcairn, hopefully this success can be homogeneous on upcoming products (maybe Tenerife if it actually exists)
LoL. Engineers are now suppose to break the laws of physics to make a GPU just for you?
7870 is a good 30-40% faster than a 6870 on average...
And by $600 you mean +$700 for your pair of GTX470s.
FYI- Your GTX470 is around 6870/560Ti performance.
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Every genocide that was committed during the 20th century has been preceded by the disarmament of the target population. Once the government outlaws your guns your life becomes a luxury afforded to you by the state. You become a tool to benefit the state. Should you cease to benefit the state or even worse become an annoyance or even a hindrance to the state then your life becomes more trouble than it is worth.
Once the government outlaws your guns your life is forfeit. You're already dead, it's just a question of when they are going to get around to you.
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