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Thread: 360 Radiator Shootout Begins!..

  1. #1
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    [Martinsliquidlab.org]360 Radiator Shootout Work In Progress



    Test Bench
    The test bench is fully enclosed to reduce environment circulation errors and also better simulate the installation in a case where some additional air restriction is present. In addition the lines are all insulated to more closely represent dissipation by the radiator only. This does result in lower dissipation numbers, but the important part is relative data. Do not take the watts dissipated as absolute, additional losses will occur in the test loop through tubing and blocks and many many other places.



    Results So Far
    I will update as I get more done.

    Detailed Reviews:

    XSPC RS360
    XSPC RX360
    Swiftech MCR320-QP
    Swiftech MCR320-XP
    Hardware Labs SR-1 360
    Hardware Labs GTX 360
    Alphacool NexXxos Xtreme III Rev 2
    Alphacool NexXxos UT60 360
    Phobya G-Changer 360 V2
    Alphacool Nexxxos XT45 360
    EK-Coolstream RAD XT (360)
    EK-Coolstream RAD XTX (360)
    Alphacool Nexxxos ST30 360
    Coolgate Single Row Acrylic 360
    Coolgate Single Row HD 360
    Aquacomputer AMS Copper 360

    Summary Performance Charts

    Restriction
    This represent relative restriction compared to CPU blocks and the rads themselves. While flow rate is a relatively minor consideration in most installations, it is something to consider in multiple radiator installations.


    Thermal Performance
    This represents thermal performance using 40% PWM pumping power (approx. 1.5GPM +-) and using Titan Kukri fans in push. The less restrictive rads naturally get slightly higher flow rates as you would expect in an actual loop and the fans used are average in CFM/RPM for most 25mm fans. Using fans like Gentle Typhoon AP-15 or Delta 38mm fans would adjust the RPM axis numbers by as much as 400RPM (IE 2200RPM Titan = 1800RPM GT15)


    Conclusion

    Well.. 16 radiators done and as usual with most watercooling, the differences between radiators is also very small. When only 6 watts separates the top 11 radiators at 600RPM, testing error alone does become a problem. On the little bit of error checking I’ve done on a few radiators I am seeing in the neighborhood of 2-3 watt error present in my trendline results. You should also consider the scale of those 6 watts when a very small thing like switching out your pump from a D5 to DDC could likely get you that 6 watts reduction in heat.

    With that I would say generally the thermal performance differences are relatively small, but there are some generalities:

    • Copper Tubes are better than Brass Tubes
    • Thicker multiple row radiators generally can be tuned for a broader range of RPMs and have lower restriction than single row radiators
    • Thicker radiators can perform better than thinner radiators, but the difference is not more than 5-10% typically and mostly for medium to higher speeds.
    • Flat tubed radiators perform better than round tubed radiators
    • Slim 30mm radiators can be tuned to perform extremely well in specific areas, but generally that means loosing more in the opposite area (ie a high speed tuned slim radiator won’t perform well at slow speeds)
    • Build quality does vary and here you do get what you pay for.
    • In performance, you don’t get what you pay for.


    Best Bang for the Buck Thermal Performance (Value or Benefit/Cost)
    I’ve always been one for emphasizing value, and with results this tight, the lower the cost the more bang for the buck. The XSPC RS360 being the lowest price rad holds a very high benefit/cost across the board. While not quite as cheap in price, the Swiftech MCR320XP gets high marks for being more value oriented and maintaining awesome performance in the mid/high speed ranges. The Alphacool ST30 is similar in being an amazing value rad, but optimized for slower speed fans.
    • Slow Speed Value = Alphacool ST30
    • All Around Value = XSPC RS360
    • High Speed Value = Swiftech MCR320-XP


    Top Thermal Performance ($ is no object)
    • Slow Speed Performance = Alphacool ST30, HWlabs SR-1, and the neighboring top 6 are all really really close.
    • All Around Performance = Alphacool UT60 & EK XTX are both really good all around performers
    • High Speed Performance = Swiftehc MCR320-XP, Alphacool UT60, and the EK XTX are all great higher speed performers


    Lowest Restriction ($ is no object)
    Pretty much a four way tie with the Phobya G-Changer V2, XSPC RS360, Alphacool UT60, and EK Coolstream XTX. The more rows of tubes wider the tubes, the lower the restriction.

    Best Build Quality
    • Hardware Labs GTX & SR1
    • Aquacomputers AMS
    • Several other close runners up.


    Most Feature Rich
    • Alphacool UT60,XT45,ST30 & Phobya G-Changer for having that screw protector feature. Also extra ports and bleed screw on the UT60.
    • Aquacomputers AMS for the modularity features.


    Most Unique
    • Aquacomputers AMS for it’s solder free and round tube construction and bare copper core
    • Coolgate Copper Radiators for their copper plating finish and the Acrylic for it’s clear end tanks.


    In the end there is no one size fits all, but there are plenty of very good options and they all perform very closely to one another. To say one wipes the floor with another is simply false when typically we’re talking single digit percentage differences and at most 20-30% difference. Don’t expect that you can upgrade any one core size and see dramatic measurable improvements, you have to consider the finer details and want a change in areas outside of performance.

    Cheers!
    Martin
    Last edited by Martinm210; 05-13-2012 at 09:58 AM.

  2. #2
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    /drooooooool

    got some swifties in there?
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    So you're saying I could use my own pee as coolant?

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    Have to ask if you have the aquacomputer ones in as well, as a lot of people including me would love to know how the new design works.

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    Quote Originally Posted by defect9 View Post
    /drooooooool

    got some swifties in there?
    Yep, got the QP and XP 320s in there..

    Quote Originally Posted by mav2000 View Post
    Have to ask if you have the aquacomputer ones in as well, as a lot of people including me would love to know how the new design works.
    Not yet, but the AMS is one I had planned on requesting after getting through these. I just need to catch up as well as finishing my Aquaero 5 XT review now that I got my new board. My only rule is that is has to be a production radiator (no more prototype testing for me), and it must be a standard 360 length with 15mm fan spacing (No 420 cores with 360 shrouding, etc). Over width and built in shrouds are ok.
    Last edited by Martinm210; 02-22-2012 at 09:02 PM.

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    That testing platform is pretty impressive. One of very few "professional" stations to test rads properly.
    Btw is it possible some time in the future to test a 180mm radiators? They are becoming more and more popular, but so far zero tests available. Comparision between 360/420 rads and 2x180 (same length) would probably solve most of the questions (a 560 vs 3x180).
    Last edited by aerial; 02-22-2012 at 11:50 PM.

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    how about adding the classic thermochill PA120.3 rads to the mix? I'm sure many people are still sporting them and would like to know who they hold up against the latest and the greatest
    Sig is under construction

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    Good luck Marti! Lots a work to do, lots of rads ) And i think results be very interesting
    p.s. it be great to see coolgate and ek in roundup.
    Last edited by Shteud; 02-23-2012 at 01:00 AM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by anzial View Post
    how about adding the classic thermochill PA120.3 rads to the mix? I'm sure many people are still sporting them and would like to know who they hold up against the latest and the greatest
    i was just think this as i have got 4 thermochill pa120.3 ready to go in my build.

    waiting on the finding's

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    Quote Originally Posted by anzial View Post
    how about adding the classic thermochill PA120.3 rads to the mix? I'm sure many people are still sporting them and would like to know who they hold up against the latest and the greatest
    Come to think of it is Thermochill out of business? I've not seen a single Thermochill radiator in any of the builds in the last 6-8 months, what's up with that?
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    I am really interested in the aquacomputer AMS. The thing that woudl be most fascinating about the AMS would be as follows:

    Comparing the copper version to the alu version along with a standard 360mm radiator.

    Assuming the AMS is better than other 360s like users who own them claim is it because of:

    The quad pass
    Unpainted copper (comparing alu to copper is a good test of this)
    or the width (146mm)

    Then doing some sort of assessment to see whether the increase in thermal performance justifies lost flow.

    Also as Ariel said reviewing some 180mm and 200mm rads would be interesting as well (even though it is clearly apples to oranges but that is sort of the idea).

    EDIT: also just noticed martin are you using those titan kukri fans that look like GT ripoffs!? ... are they any good!?
    Last edited by c.ruel; 02-23-2012 at 06:22 AM.

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    EK Coolstream in there? Skinnee has a nice review of it but having another wouldn't be a bad thing...

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    Quote Originally Posted by anzial View Post
    how about adding the classic thermochill PA120.3 rads to the mix? I'm sure many people are still sporting them and would like to know who they hold up against the latest and the greatest
    Quote Originally Posted by Shteud View Post
    Good luck Marti! Lots a work to do, lots of rads ) And i think results be very interesting
    p.s. it be great to see coolgate and ek in roundup.
    Quote Originally Posted by schizo View Post
    i was just think this as i have got 4 thermochill pa120.3 ready to go in my build.

    waiting on the finding's
    Quote Originally Posted by c.ruel View Post
    I am really interested in the aquacomputer AMS. The thing that woudl be most fascinating about the AMS would be as follows:

    Comparing the copper version to the alu version along with a standard 360mm radiator.

    Assuming the AMS is better than other 360s like users who own them claim is it because of:

    The quad pass
    Unpainted copper (comparing alu to copper is a good test of this)
    or the width (146mm)

    Then doing some sort of assessment to see whether the increase in thermal performance justifies lost flow.

    Also as Ariel said reviewing some 180mm and 200mm rads would be interesting as well (even though it is clearly apples to oranges but that is sort of the idea).

    EDIT: also just noticed martin are you using those titan kukri fans that look like GT ripoffs!? ... are they any good!?
    Quote Originally Posted by Polizei View Post
    EK Coolstream in there? Skinnee has a nice review of it but having another wouldn't be a bad thing...
    Thanks!

    Yes, I bought the Titan's because 1) They were in stock, 2)Have a larger RPM range 3)Relatively cheap. Haven't tested in any detail, but I don't think they are quite up to GT noise quality, perhaps better than average though using my subjective ear. More importantly for radiator testing though is getting a representative CFM/RPM and having something with good wide range. The Titan's undervolt to 500 and can overvolt to nearly 2400RPM. Hard to find a fan that can do that. The GT15's would be a little limiting at the top end and I didn't want to test with two sets of fans. I will test with push and with push + pull though.

    I've had test suggestions for and have the following wish list I will start looking for as I near the end of this first 11 batch:
    -Aqua Computers AMS Copper and/or Aluminum fin
    -Thermochill 15mm PA
    -EK Coolstream and/or XTX?
    -Koolance 20FPI and/or 30FPI copper?

    But sorry, no old PAs. No longer in production and not fitting the 15mm rad spacing template I have set up.

    I'm figuring roughly one radiator per weekend as a conservative time frame, so I'll be at this a good 3+ months or more.
    Last edited by Martinm210; 02-23-2012 at 06:56 AM.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Polizei View Post
    EK Coolstream in there? Skinnee has a nice review of it but having another wouldn't be a bad thing...
    He said he is considering some of them as an addition later on.
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    as always, the dedicated few gives us their time to review the many choices to inform the community...

    Martin, thanks for your dedication and efforts!
    much appreciated!

    but we really have to talk bro...
    give me the specs on a 560 test bed and i'll do the woodwork for you!
    can i tempt you with...

    baltic birch?
    hand finished with tung oil?

    hahaha...

    good luck and looking forward to your review.
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    Get the adderall ready for a MLL information overload! Can't wait to see the new rad tester in action.
    Last edited by Annoyingmouse; 02-23-2012 at 08:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Martinm210 View Post
    I'm all excited about switching to radiators...been a long time.

    Going to be busy for a while...hehe
    That's an impressive assortment of radiators to go through... certainly a fun project

    Quote Originally Posted by kinghong1970 View Post
    give me the specs on a 560 test bed and i'll do the woodwork for you!
    can i tempt you with...

    baltic birch?
    hand finished with tung oil?
    Mmmm.... that sounds yummy.
    I'm doing science and I'm still alive...

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    i wonder if this will hold true lol


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    Quote Originally Posted by Petra View Post
    Mmmm.... that sounds yummy.
    DUDE! my wife committed the ultimate sin!!! she took my collection of PTS pens and used it... found the last one under the carpet inside her soccer mom van... with cheerios!!! with Cheerios!!!

    got any to spare?

    "The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times challenge and controversy."
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    Really nice bench Martin, looking forward to the results. And I second or third? suggestion of Aqua Computers AMS Copper and Aluminum fin if you can get ahold of them after reviewing those. Interested since one reviewer had the copper one significantly outperforming others. Interested to see if results are repeatable or not, especially on your new bench. And if its quad pass that helps that much or material/construction...guess others could start making quad pass if so.

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    Id quite lie to see how the 2x180 magicool works running with 3x120mm fans and a small shroud, could be interesting to see if you can get significantly better performance from the same length but with a wider core. Would be good to get some data as the wider core might be a better way to add more suface area whist reducing airflow restriction in comparrason to the double thick 60mm rads which have to drop FPI significantly to keep from choking the flow of lowspeed fans.

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    G r e a t !!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Petra View Post
    That's an impressive assortment of radiators to go through... certainly a fun project
    Thanks! I'll let you know if the fun continues when I'm done with #11.. Some times I don't know what I ask for...lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Hondacity View Post

    i wonder if this will hold true lol
    What is the K360?

    Quote Originally Posted by kinghong1970 View Post
    as always, the dedicated few gives us their time to review the many choices to inform the community...

    Martin, thanks for your dedication and efforts!
    much appreciated!

    but we really have to talk bro...
    give me the specs on a 560 test bed and i'll do the woodwork for you!
    can i tempt you with...

    baltic birch?
    hand finished with tung oil?

    hahaha...

    good luck and looking forward to your review.
    This actually should handle 560's as a maximum size from what I measured should just barely fit..I'm just not doing any 560 tests right now. I'm actually a bit more partial to liking quads myself, but I picked the 360s since there are more models out there with 360 options and my intent was to compare models more than anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by rge View Post
    Really nice bench Martin, looking forward to the results. And I second or third? suggestion of Aqua Computers AMS Copper and Aluminum fin if you can get ahold of them after reviewing those. Interested since one reviewer had the copper one significantly outperforming others. Interested to see if results are repeatable or not, especially on your new bench. And if its quad pass that helps that much or material/construction...guess others could start making quad pass if so.
    Got the AMS as #1 on the wish list to request after I get these done..

    Quote Originally Posted by SuperSilent View Post
    Id quite lie to see how the 2x180 magicool works running with 3x120mm fans and a small shroud, could be interesting to see if you can get significantly better performance from the same length but with a wider core. Would be good to get some data as the wider core might be a better way to add more suface area whist reducing airflow restriction in comparrason to the double thick 60mm rads which have to drop FPI significantly to keep from choking the flow of lowspeed fans.
    Yeah, curious about those too, but I won't be testing anything but 15mm spacing 360's until this round is done.

    Guess I better get busy working on these this weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kinghong1970 View Post
    DUDE! my wife committed the ultimate sin!!! she took my collection of PTS pens and used it... found the last one under the carpet inside her soccer mom van... with cheerios!!! with Cheerios!!!

    got any to spare?

    Unfortunately, this is all that remains of the once massive cache of PTS pens (and the collection is nowhere near complete... I'm missing pretty much all of the older pens, two colors of the solid-color frost pens, and one color of the last series of logo pens):

    I'm doing science and I'm still alive...

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    I miss my Petra pens too...but I think I really miss the hand written notes even more...

    I've seen a few others attempt the pen thing, but have yet to see the note. I'm also seeing more gummy bears and candy variations lately, but they are never very soft and gummy by the time I get them. I would suggest "Peanut M&Ms", a mechanical pencil, and hand written note
    Last edited by Martinm210; 02-23-2012 at 08:40 PM.

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    had i known... i would have placed my last order of 8 x 140mm yates... one fan at a time...

    hmm... baltic birch PTS pen case? since you have couple of repeats... lol

    sorry Martin.. .i won't derail your thread again.
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