First-time watercooling questions

[JudgmentJay]

Hello all,

I'm planning on doing my first watercooling build shortly after Ivy Bridge is available, and I had a couple questions. I've read most of the guides in the sticky above and have spent the last few days researching (on my company's dime, ha!), but some of the information seems a bit dated, and I'd like to confirm my thoughts with you all before I make any decisions.

The build is obviously a few months off, but here are a few important tidbids:

• I'm definitely interested in pushing the CPU past air cooling limitations, but I'm not going for anything super extreme.
• I will have two top-of-the-line graphic cards SLI'd. Not sure which two at this point. Again, I'd like to overclock them, but nothing too extreme.
• I'm leaning strongly towards a Little Devil PC-V8 case, but as it is overkill I'm up for suggestions on something smaller that will still accommodate the loop outlined below.

I was thinking of having a single loop with two XSPC RX480 radiators. The loop will consist of the reservoir, pump, 2x rads, CPU, NB/Mosfets, and 2x GPUs. My two primary questions are: 1. Are these two radiators sufficient to cool this loop, and 2. What pump would I need in order to ensure proper flow for such a lengthy loop? Something with sufficient flow but minimal noise would be awesome. Obviously the case can support two loops, but I'd like to keep the watercooling components to a minimum if at all possible.

Another question I have is is it even necessary to watercool the NB/Mosfets? The guides say no, and I remember concluding the same thing when I was researching for a build I ultimately ended up abandoning a few years ago, but it seems like many of the people in the galleries do.

I'm sure I have more questions, but that's all I can think of for now.

Thanks!

[Church]

Seeing you being @US, imho Caselabs cases are better choice then LD's, and unlike for those in europe, shipping won't cost arm & leg.
Two 4x120 rads? Sure, will be sufficient. I'd probably parallelize gpu-s & for pump would use something like single MCP35X.
BTW, there is no NB for lga1155. All of it's functions (pcie controller for video/ram controller) are within CPU. As for southbridge, it has very small TDP, after all it's almost plane jane usb/sata/lan/audio controller. So unless motherboard uses something like nf200, for sandy/ivy-bridge i'd cool only VRM on motherboard, though of course, for bling purpose one can use even full cover blocks for such boards.

[nuttcase21]

i agree with churchy. the little devil cases are over priced and look poor in my eye. then again i'm a biased caselabs owner. you'll get more case dollar for dollar if you buy a caselabs over a little devil. i absolutely love mine and there are an enormous amount of options to do pretty much whatever you want. i think dual 480 rads is overkill for your build (i have dual 480's in separate loops, 1 for triple 6970's, 1 for 980x cpu, full cover classy 4way board block. my dual loops is overkill) and i would know. i always over build my loops though to future proof them if i want to add more down the road. GL

[Church]

nuttcase21: biggest problem of caselabs is shipping price over pond. unless that gets solved, LD imho will stay best choice in europe (compared to eg. mountainmods/xspc), imho LD's biggest flaw - ugly radgrill pattern (i expect for expensive high end case to be perfect, including looks). i'd suggest to caselabs to open some daughter firm here to make/assemble/distribute locally to fix shipping pricing issue, but it's up to them to follow through that or not.

[JudgmentJay]

Thanks for the suggestions, guys. I definitely like the layout of the Caselabs TH-10 (or possibly just the T10 + RX360 Rads) case more than the LD V8, and it would end up being several hundred dollars cheaper so I guess I can't go wrong even if I'm actually increasing the case size. I'll just call it futureproofing! When it gets closer to build time I'll probably necro this thread or start a new one with a full part list just to get XS' seal of approval. So excited!

[matari]

Mosfet/chipset can be a pain in the ass to watercool. The stock heatsink can be difficult remove, and tubing routing is just plain old fun. The only good thing about removing the stock cooler is you get to see how craptastic of job the manufacturers did with a TIM. My last board, the south bridge portion of the cooler was glued to the chip (yes, no TIM was used).

[stren]

If you like the singlewide nature of the LD case, you can also look at the CaseLabs STH10 - it will handle 2x140.4 easily so you'll have plenty of room with 2x120.4

[JudgmentJay]

Wow it's already been 3 months since I posted this... anyway, the build is ~1 month away, and while I feel pretty confident about the components I thought I'd post them anyway to see what people thought.

I'm going to be watercooling either a 3770k or 3930k... waiting on IB reviews to decide. Also 3 GTX680s and quite possibly the motherboard (If I go X79 it'll be a REIV). Anyway, here's what I've got:

CaseLabs T10 case (reverse ATX)
2 XSPC RX360 radiators in the top of the case + Scythe GT AP-15 fans
EK 250 reservoir
Swiftech MCP35X2 pump
EK Supreme HF CPU block (nickel)
EK's REIV full cover block (nickel)
EK's GTX680 blocks (nickel) + EK links and triple parallel bridge

Tubing is PrimoChill PrimoFlex PRO LRT 1/2" ID 3/4" OD and fittings are Bitspower compression fittings with an assortment of 45 and 90 degree rotary adapters. Also, a Koolance quick disconnect at the bottom of the loop for drainage.

Do you guys think 720mm of radiator space is enough to cool a 4.5-5.0ghz IB/SB-E, motherboard, and 3 GTX680 OC'd to their limit? I could easily add a 3rd 360mm radiator to the front intake of the case. Also, what are opinions on the EK link+bridge system as opposed to something like the Bitspower multi-link fittings + Crystal Link tubes? Aesthetically I like the fittings+tubes more, but the EK bridge seems sturdier and easier to work with.

For the loop order it'll be Res -> pump -> VRM -> CPU -> SB -> GPUs -> Rad1 -> Rad2 -> (Rad3) -> Res. Order doesn't really matter as long as your pump is after your reservoir, right? I won't hurt anything by running the water through all 3 radiators in a row?

Thanks!

[AVulgarPicture]

id recommend adding that extra 360mm rad if you can. its only going to help your temperatures.
i think if you're planning to get the most out of your motherboard, watercooling the VRM's can have a positive effect, as these can become hot when you're pushing the CPU, and particularly if you're planning heavy 24/7 overclocks. that and what matari said above has been the case for several boards ive owned, sometimes its a wonder if the boards have any cooling at all.

bridges like the EK are easier to install, but look much worse in my opinion. i also recommend parallel flow for multi card setups.
loop order wont make any difference no, and rads are generally very unrestrictive.

[Conumdrum]

Bit outdated but helps explain heaload and how to calculate your DT. You want to do this.

http://www.overclockers.com/guide-deltat-water-cooling/

Overclocking? Or voltage mods too? Folding? All these quuestions need answered.

3 120x3 rads no matter what for quiet operation.

[JudgmentJay]

Thanks for the input. I thought I had e-mail alerts turned on for this thread, but I guess not!

Adding the 3rd radiator is no big deal as I said, but now I'm a little concerned about flow. Will a MCP35X2 pump be enough for 3 radiators and 6 blocks (CPU, 2x Motherboard, 3x GPU)?

[gmat]

It will definitely be a bit struggling there. A 2nd pump would do you a lot of good, put them both on a PWM controller so you can tune down the speed / noise as needed. Better have too much and be able to tune down, than having not enough and the pump cavitating and zero flow..

[JudgmentJay]

Well the X2 is basically 2 pumps (with a PWM controller), right?

[gmat]

Yep i didnt read the "X2" part, sorry. It will be perfect for you.

[Leopold Butters]

Are you going to get tbe 4Gb model of the 680? I saw in another thread that galaxy is releasing one.

[JudgmentJay]

I decided I didn't want to wait. I ordered 3 2gb 680s. I'll replace them when having only 2gb of vram becomes an issue.

[JudgmentJay]

Soooo I spent all day (and night) yesterday building my loop... it was a nightmare to say the least. I think I made a mistake going with compression fittings instead of barbs. How the heck do people manage to screw those onto the tubes all the way? I destroyed my thumbs trying to do so.

Anyway, I finally finished, filled it, and turned it on... I had no less than 4 very small, very slow leaks (all in the CPU/mb block area) as well as a ton of air trapped in the loop. It sounded like a fountain or something with how much the water/air was sloshing around inside the radiators/reservoir.

I also forgot to install my quick disconnect, so I have no easy way to drain the loop.

Right now my plans are to drain the loop, put the stock cooler back on the motherboard (CPU area is too crowded), switch out the compression fittings to barbs, and install a quick disconnect at the bottom of the loop.

My 2 questions are:

1. How the heck should I drain the loop? Just get a bucket, yank a tube, and be ready for a mess?
2. How do I get the air out of my loop? I have 2 radiators on the top of the case, so it seems like that's going to be fairly difficult to accomplish. I tried the tipping the case, and I can hear the air inside the radiators, but it doesn't really seem to do anything. Is there something I can add to the loop to aid me? Is turning my case upside down a feasible solution?

Overall I'm pretty depressed about the entire situation. Any help would be appreciated.

[JudgmentJay]

One more thing. When the pump is off, the reservoir is filled to the top, but when the pump is going the reservoir goes down to about half full which creates a waterfall, which I would assume just adds more air to the loop. As soon as I turn the pump off the reservoir fills back up to full. Is this normal?

[Conumdrum]

Rads at the top means hours of tilting, pinching hoses, learning how to bump the pump to have the big air bubbles stop at the res.

Your res is doing that because of the air trapped in the rad.

Bleeding a loop can be a real pain in the butt, it's all on how the loop is built and how much stuff you got in there. Could be a few days with you working the air out when you have time.

Draining the loop? Yep, pull a hose, tip the case so water pours out the open side, have lots of towels and a few bowls etc.

Welcome to watercooling! It gets easier, really does.

Ohh, post a pic of your layout, maybe you got something wonky.

[JudgmentJay]

Thanks for the reply. I'll post pics when I get home... hopefully you or someone can provide some advice for bleeding my loop once you see it.

[PiLsY]

You dont have to screw comp fittings all the way down. Just enough to hold the tube on. Im with you on the destroyed thumbs, thats why I switched back to barbs.

With a case like that you need at least 2 people for initial bleeding. You need to tip, tilt and turn as much air out as possible via the res filling as you go. Dont use the pump until youre down to the last bit.

You could also build your loop from the bottom up filling as you go, you'll need plenty of paper towels though.

Need pics to advise properly as every layout is different

[gmat]

How the heck do people manage to screw those onto the tubes all the way? I destroyed my thumbs trying to do so.

You dont because you must NOT screw them all the way (although they tend to get rough on the skin anyway: use gloves...). Just hand tighten them until it's reasonably tight. Give a slight yank on the tube to check it's well in place: it wont go off by itself then.

Anyway, I finally finished, filled it, and turned it on... I had no less than 4 very small, very slow leaks

Possibly over tightened barbs.. Check that Swiftech post about barbs it's a good example o-rings dont have to be squished flat (actually it makes things worse..).

1. How the heck should I drain the loop? Just get a bucket, yank a tube, and be ready for a mess?

Yep. Next time think of it Get a T and a shut off valve (ball valve) or just a QD and see how it makes life a lot easier !

2. How do I get the air out of my loop? I have 2 radiators on the top of the case, so it seems like that's going to be fairly difficult to accomplish.

That's why i usually dislike radiators on top.. GL tipping over the case but that means the pump ingesting air from the res, really not fun.
Ideally if your rads are to be on top no matter what, you should put them just after the pump outlet in the loop, so they benefit from the overpressure and chase air bubbles a bit more easier.

BTW the res level going down with the pump on = air in your loop. It will still do that a bit if you're not using hard lines as soft tubes tend to inflate just a bit...

[JudgmentJay]

You dont have to screw comp fittings all the way down. Just enough to hold the tube on.

You dont because you must NOT screw them all the way (although they tend to get rough on the skin anyway: use gloves...). Just hand tighten them until it's reasonably tight. Give a slight yank on the tube to check it's well in place: it wont go off by itself then.

Possibly over tightened barbs.. Check that Swiftech post about barbs it's a good example o-rings dont have to be squished flat (actually it makes things worse..).

Yikes. In all my research I didn't come across this. That probably is the cause of my leaks, because i tried to tighten everything as much as possible (within reason). I don't know why I assumed that compression fittings were supposed to be tightened all the way. You know what they say about assuming.

Could you point me to the Swiftech post you mention? I'm not seeing it.

Thanks, and I'll have pics up in about 4-5 hours.

[JudgmentJay]

I know there are radiators with ports on both sides, such as the Alphacool UT60. Could the top ports of those be used for bleeding? You'd think that radiators would be easier to bleed since it seems to be such a common issue... I mean flipping the case is cool and all, but it seems like there should be an easier way.

[PiLsY]

Yeah you can use those to attach a fillport.

Honestly the whole fill/bleed thing is only difficult the first few times. You'll work out the shortcuts for your loop in no time. First time took me an hour and a half with my loop (which is just as complicated as yours), now I can do it in 20.