Fake Koolance PMP-450?? Tim?

[headala]

Hi, guys and gal, I haven't been around a lot lately but I hope everyone is well.

My D5 has recently been failing lately (e.g., not starting or starting and then stopping a few minutes later). Thankfully, I have the whole thing set to shut down in that event, so nothing was damaged.

I needed a new pump quick. Usually I buy from the U.S. or Taiwan but in this case I needed to use the computer so I ordered a Koolance PMP-450 from an online shop here in China.

The pump arrived yesterday, and I was surprised by a few things. Maybe you guys can tell me if it's normal for a Koolance branded D5. My main concerns are:

box has a Koolance label over a Laing label
another label over a label on the pump body
tiny amount of machining chards (dunno if that's the correct term) in the outlet nozzle
back-plate different from my current Swiftech D5

Here are some pics:
Outer box:

P1040467 by headala, on Flickr

Outer label over a label (Photoshopped for visibility):

P1040468 by headala, on Flickr

Another shot of the outer box label:

P1040469 by headala, on Flickr

Opened box:

P1040470 by headala, on Flickr

Instructions (no mention of Koolance):

P1040471 by headala, on Flickr

Backplate of pump (my Swifty had radial 'veins' for reinforcement, this one is smooth):

P1040472 by headala, on Flickr

Side view:

P1040473 by headala, on Flickr

Closeup of Koolance label over another:

P1040474 by headala, on Flickr

Inside of top/volute:

P1040475 by headala, on Flickr

Impeller:

P1040476 by headala, on Flickr

So, is this thing a fake? If so, why go through the trouble of making professional labels, etc. and then be sloppy about alignment or not removing the old one? Or is this how Koolance normally is?

Help! I have a return window of only a few days.

[TJ Tom]

I always thought Laing didn't sell their own pumps but only sold to third party resellers who put their own label on it (except for industrial pumps), but I could be wrong though. Labels isn't something I would go by in this case. Open up the stator and look at the labels on that part, those should be Laing labels. If there are no Laing labels/serial numbers on the stator I would have my doubts. With China being a pro in counterfeiting pretty much anything and the fact that Laing does not produce their pumps in China makes it a bit fishy.

You could also hook it up and see how it performs. How much did you pay for it?

Edit:

Taking a second look at the pictures and labels I would never take it for a genuine Koolance pump. But that doesn't mean it's not a genuine Laing D5 inside.

[headala]

I always thought Laing didn't sell their own pumps but only sold to third party resellers who put their own label on it (except for industrial pumps), but I could be wrong though. Labels isn't something I would go by in this case. Open up the stator and look at the labels on that part, those should be Laing labels. If there are no Laing labels/serial numbers on the stator I would have my doubts. With China being a pro in counterfeiting pretty much anything and the fact that Laing does not produce their pumps in China makes it a bit fishy.

You could also hook it up and see how it performs. How much did you pay for it?

Edit:

Taking a second look at the pictures and labels I would never take it for a genuine Koolance pump. But that doesn't mean it's not a genuine Laing D5 inside.

This has been my experience, too.

I paid 580 CNY for it (about $93). What I don't understand is why would you make a fake Koolance pump out of a genuine Laing pump?

Anyway, looked inside. Says "D5 v1.51" in one place and then "A-00-075-163" in another. There is a place where it said LAING in outline letters, but that's covered by a sticker with a number on it (see this sticker over something Laing thing again??!).

Anyone else have an idea?

[TJ TRICHEESE]

Just looks like a normal D5 to me... Dunno the difference between a normal one and the koolance one tho

[TJ Tom]

The reason I think it's not a real Koolance pump is because there are only 2 wires to power the pump and a wire to read out the speed is not present. A genuine Koolance pump comes with 3 wires as the picture below confirmes. Also, Koolance is, based on what I have seen, a very high quality manufacturer that would not use black and white labels and put them on the way they did in this case. I would expect a nice Koolance label/seal and not some label over another label.

But I do think it's a real D5 just because it looks like a real D5 to me. It has all the bells and whistles a genuine D5 has, including the logo's, serial numbers and warnings. Ofcourse this does not mean it's a real D5 but it does make it either real or a very good fake.

See the difference between the OP's pump and the real one? But then again, my hamburger at McDonalds never looks the way it does on the posters...

What I don't understand is why would you make a fake Koolance pump out of a genuine Laing pump?

For the exact reason you bought it. Cause you thought it was a Koolance pump, people tend to pay more for a brand they know.

[Evantaur]

doesn't koolance products get shipped in a black box that says KOOLANCE on it

[Martinm210]

Looks like a Laing D5 vario, but the labels and lack of RPM wire and the inclusion of the Laing manual don't look familiar. The box and pump look like Laing's stuff. I'm not sure what is going on with Laing though, website is down and I think they merged with someone else.

[headala]

Looks like a Laing D5 vario, but the labels and lack of RPM wire and the inclusion of the Laing manual don't look familiar. The box and pump look like Laing's stuff. I'm not sure what is going on with Laing though, website is down and I think they merged with someone else.

LOL how's it going Martin? That sounds great.

TBH, Koolance wouldn't have been my first choice of brand. I'm fine buying a straight-up Laing D5 but this was what I could find.

Has anyone ever bought one of these? Does the box look the same or is it black like Evantaur said?

[bds71]

sounds to me like someone got hold of some "discounted" parts and built the pump and threw some stickers on it. ever been to NYC? those "200$" boutique sunglasses can be bought for about 7$ at a street vender. they charged you the full price for your pump, but i doubt they paid anywhere NEAR what koolance would have to pay to get you the same part. is it genuine (all the right parts)? probably. did it come from koolance? i highly doubt it.

[TJ Tom]

They merged with ITT 2 or 3 years ago? The manual and box look like they're from Laing. The parts story of bds71 could be true But I just think it's a fake Koolance pump with a genuine D5 inside. I'd just use it, if it's quiet and has enough head it's ok. And if it also lasts 5 years you know it was a real D5.

[Koolance]

The reseller wasn't mentioned, but we only warrant our products if they've been purchased from an official dealer listed on our website. That said, our PMP-450/450S are typically reshipped using the Laing box. So, this looks similar except someone made another label to cover the ITT/Laing white box label (we don't do that). Also, it's older stock without the tach. We started shipping PMP-450 with tach lead in Sept, 2010.

Tim

[TeslaNick]

Edit: In response to how Koolance products are shipped:

Having bought a ton of Koolance products in the last month or so, I can say that the components that did come in boxes have arrived in plain brown cardboard boxes with a sticker indicating what was in them. I believe the exception was the CPU-370 which did come in a black (IIRC), Koolance-branded paperboard box. The PMP-400s I bought came in plastic resealable bags.

[NaeKuh]

TBH, Koolance wouldn't have been my first choice of brand. I'm fine buying a straight-up Laing D5 but this was what I could find.

koolance is the only LC company that gives u warrenty if u open the pump so u obviously have no idea WTF ur talking about. A pmp-450 is a D5.

Swiftech says u should use pinesol to clean ur pumps and not open it.. u open any swiftech pump u void your warrenty.
Laing direct is the same... you can not open any pump unscrew any of the factory screws, or use any aftermarket product in lue with it, or you void your warrenty.

Koolance says as long as you bought it from an authorized vendor, and u dont have your dog chew on the pump housing... should it break, they will RMA it even if u open it up for cleaning...

So sorry, i will always buy a koolance pump because im allowed to open it.... use aftermarket tops on it... and do whatever to it except user fault damage, and still keep my warrenty.

[ryan92084]

just a bit hostile there naekuh

[NKrader]

just a bit hostile there naekuh

only always, at least it gets the job done

[Martinm210]

Howdy..

Naekuh..too much coffee lately..?..

[headala]

sounds to me like someone got hold of some "discounted" parts and built the pump and threw some stickers on it. ever been to NYC? those "200$" boutique sunglasses can be bought for about 7$ at a street vender. they charged you the full price for your pump, but i doubt they paid anywhere NEAR what koolance would have to pay to get you the same part. is it genuine (all the right parts)? probably. did it come from koolance? i highly doubt it.

Yeah, that's what I'm thinking they did. I might see if I can squeeze some refund out of them.

They merged with ITT 2 or 3 years ago? The manual and box look like they're from Laing. The parts story of bds71 could be true But I just think it's a fake Koolance pump with a genuine D5 inside. I'd just use it, if it's quiet and has enough head it's ok. And if it also lasts 5 years you know it was a real D5.

That's good to know about them merging with ITT. My current D5 has been in service for 6-7 years!

The reseller wasn't mentioned, but we only warrant our products if they've been purchased from an official dealer listed on our website. That said, our PMP-450/450S are typically reshipped using the Laing box. So, this looks similar except someone made another label to cover the ITT/Laing white box label (we don't do that). Also, it's older stock without the tach. We started shipping PMP-450 with tach lead in Sept, 2010.

Tim

Tim, thank you very, very much for responding. That's exactly the kind of info I was looking for. Just to clarify, when I said "Koolance wouldn't have been my first choice", I meant that statement literally in that I tend to go with a company I have more history or relationship with...Bitspower because I know Vincent or Swiftech because I've enjoyed a lot of their parts in the past. No specific beef with Koolance though.

Edit: In response to how Koolance products are shipped:

Having bought a ton of Koolance products in the last month or so, I can say that the components that did come in boxes have arrived in plain brown cardboard boxes with a sticker indicating what was in them. I believe the exception was the CPU-370 which did come in a black (IIRC), Koolance-branded paperboard box. The PMP-400s I bought came in plastic resealable bags.

Thanks, Nick!

koolance is the only LC company that gives u warrenty if u open the pump so u obviously have no idea WTF ur talking about. A pmp-450 is a D5.

Swiftech says u should use pinesol to clean ur pumps and not open it.. u open any swiftech pump u void your warrenty.
Laing direct is the same... you can not open any pump unscrew any of the factory screws, or use any aftermarket product in lue with it, or you void your warrenty.

Koolance says as long as you bought it from an authorized vendor, and u dont have your dog chew on the pump housing... should it break, they will RMA it even if u open it up for cleaning...

So sorry, i will always buy a koolance pump because im allowed to open it.... use aftermarket tops on it... and do whatever to it except user fault damage, and still keep my warrenty.

Hi, NaeKuh, thanks for your thoughts and experience. I wasn't aware of the difference in service; that's good to know for the future.

just a bit hostile there naekuh

only always, at least it gets the job done

Naekuh..too much coffee lately..?..

No worries, guys. I personally try to take a more graceful tone in my posts...it typically is more effective but also takes more intellectual power. Maybe others won't or aren't capable of going that route. To each his own.

[TJ Tom]

No worries, guys. I personally try to take a more graceful tone in my posts...it typically is more effective but also takes more intellectual power. Maybe others won't or aren't capable of going that route. To each his own.

Hehe, +1

Some people here are just so Xtreme they forget there's a life beyond watercooling I know Koolance has a great warranty but I also prefer the D5 or DDC's so I gues I don't know WTF i'm talking about. Are you going to use the pump or return it to the shop?

[Church]

All kudos to Koolance's state regarding RMA. Only problem with Koolance's pump selection though - swiftech is only one selling pwm ddc.

[headala]

Interesting. I talked to the seller today. He was very understanding about my reservations (and I made sure I didn't directly accuse him of something). He says that he gets his Koolance stuff directly from Koolance Korea, and does not alter the box, etc. He actually seems to know his stuff and quite a bit about the industry. He is faxing me the invoice from Koolance Korea for the pump tonight and says that I am welcome to email his contact person there to confirm that he bought the good through them.

So, I feel a little better but "I'll believe it when I see it". I'm also going to hook up the pump tonight and see about the output, etc.

Thank you all for your help and advice!

[Section8]

I love Koolance products. I have used and own many of their products. I have never seen a pump look like that before with the white label pasted over another label though.

[CrazyNutz]

It looks 100% like a D5, the box looks 100% like a laing D5 box. The sticker that was peeled off looks like the original Laing sticker.

Based on this I would say its a real Laing D5. However I do think its a counterfeit Koolance branding. They probably got a super good deal on the pumps since they do not have the tach wire.

[NaeKuh]

Howdy..

Naekuh..too much coffee lately..?..

actually im going though withdrawl...

doctor told me i am intaking too much caffine and its not going well with me, and told me to lay off.

So yeah... im a bit grumpy... :\

But its mostly because people vendor bash without solid reasons... because company X is just company X.
Well if u have a problem with Company X, then state a real reason... dont just bash company X.

[TJ Tom]

actually im going though withdrawl...

doctor told me i am intaking too much caffine and its not going well with me, and told me to lay off.

So yeah... im a bit grumpy... :\

But its mostly because people vendor bash without solid reasons... because company X is just company X.
Well if u have a problem with Company X, then state a real reason... dont just bash company X.

Where did anyone bash a vendor... open your eyes next time you rage against a random person who has some questions. Koolance has only been referred to as a quality manufacturer.