Introduction of Mayhems Biocide Extreme.

[Sparky]

@matari this is better than any silver you add into you system.

I have a loop that is over a year old with nothing but distilled and a silver coil, and the water is still perfectly clear. Given this, I think the bar is set fairly high

[andressergio]

I have a loop that is over a year old with nothing but distilled and a silver coil, and the water is still perfectly clear. Given this, I think the bar is set fairly high

+1 for that im not even using the coil just distilled and silver coated barbs form Bitspower

[mlwood37]

@Aquatuning i think steve has shipped.

@DarthBeavis Aurora is not a dye is a coolant, Biocide Extreme is a replacement for current biocides in the market place. It works really well with our dyes.

@Sparky Good for you.

[Utnorris]

Hey all, The reason we have the "low order" fee of $10 dollars for orders under $75 dollars is because shipping a package to the USA from Germany is not cheap on average we are spending $45 dollars per package! But to provide our goods and services to you we heavily subsidise the shipment cost so to get a rare item from halfway around the world in 24-48 hours from placing your fully traceable order with the highest cost of postage being $16-18 dollars MAX and without the worry of customs hold ups or fees I don't think that's too bad

Granted if you did not like the idea of this fee then you could maybe arrange a group buy.

@ Mlwood37 - we have orders in with you so hurry up and ship it :P

Don't get me wrong, I understand the shipping, it's just on something this small it would be better if I could order here in the states. I have ordered stuff from you guys before and you ship quick and at a reasonable rate. However for something like this it doesn't make sense for me. One these days I will get to try out Mayhem dyes, just not today.

[CrazyNutz]

I'd be very cautious with this one. Mess up and make your coolant too acidic (below 7.0ph) and it will eat your wc parts.

You want your coolant to be neutral (7.0) or in a slight basic range to prevent corrosion.

Here are the effects of a bad Ph:
Acidic: < 7.0ph corrosion WILL occur (not the galvanic type) i.e. material will start to deteriorate/desolve.
basic/alkaline: > 7.0ph scaling can occur if some kind of particles are in the water (i.e. plasticiser, dye, calcium, etc..)


Most users do not have Ph testers to know if they are making their coolant too acidic with this product, and a lot of people will over use because they have a mindset of more = more protection.

[mlwood37]

There is advise on the bottle how ever in water cooling and like many things in life there is only so much we can do and to educate like you have done is better than any thing else.

If people do not want to listen or read then why are they in water cooling in the first place. We all have to start some were though .

[Kayin]

A real cheap and yet rather accurate way to test PH would be freshwater aquarium dip strips. You can get a pH reading in the tenths on accuracy in seconds. I use them here in the lab a fair bit.

[Martinm210]

Great work! Really interesting notes and thoughts regarding PH and possible effects.

It would be really cool to see what the conductivity and PH is in a simple long term test such as:
1) in the bottle before dumping into the system
2)3 hours after running in a normal loop
3)24 hrs after
4)3 days
5)7 days
6)2 weeks
7)1 month
8)2 months
9)4 months...

You could then plot conductivity and PH relative to time and identify upper and lower limits on a nice graph (yeah I know I'm overly visual). Getting down to the "X" lower limit, add some recommended (Drops/liter) of your product, and continue testing to see those effects over that same time scale. You could also identify at what point conductivity is too high for corrosion (3 months, 6 months, 1 year?) etc..

You could even develop a "Mayhem's WC Water Quality Kit" with PH strips and a nice user manual to explain how to manage the water quality, etc.

Anyhow, just some ideas that I think would be really cool. There are all sorts of similar "Test/Maintenance" type kits for aquariums and pools, why not for water cooling? Just might be the solution to preventing build up and/or minimizing corrosion.

[Kayin]

Shouldn't be too difficult to set something like that up. In addition a buffer for water that's too acidic should be available, because there is unfortunately no way to get one simple standard out there-all purified water is not created equal.

[mlwood37]

@Martinm210 that is a really good idea how ever like you say these kits are all ready available on the market and test strips can be got for less than £1 by users them self. We have been asked in the past to do such a small cheap kit but really haven't had the time to do it so we normally just send some of our own test strips for free to them. PH buffers from local aquarium shops are about £10 and they can all so be gotten from good garden centres (gardeners are seriously mental over PH levels / Chemical make up in liquids for there plants).

I do hold logs of all out tests how ever they have never been publicly shown due to people may think they are bias. We are employing a well know company in the UK who deals with GlaxoSmithKline, M3 ect to run independent tests on all our fluids so that we can publicly post the information for all to see. This is happening over the next few months. The test are being run over 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 3 month periods up to 1 year (hence its going to take some time).

Purified water is a pain to test as we got samples from Asda, Morrison's, Local car shops, Chemists, on-line shops ect and found none of them to be the same PH / TDS / PPM levels. I dont know what they are like over in the USA but in the UK there doesn't seem to be a set standard as such.

@Kayin if your willing to run such tests you self i can supply with what you need with out any problems. No cost to your self OFC as you will be helping the community as a whole .

[Martinm210]

What sort of PH would you recommend for WC?
Also is any suggestions for maximum conductivity or TDS numbers to watch for?

I'm a meter freak, so I went ahead and ordered some new toys on fleabay...Are these any good?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/370231303870...#ht_803wt_1297
http://www.ebay.com/itm/280349451704...ht_1558wt_1064

I'm just curious to better understand water quality and think it may be the culprit behind many of our problems. I was a bit shocked when I found my radiator corroded through the other day from water sitting in it a year, and figure there must be some good fun science within..

Thanks!
Martin

[mlwood37]

Me personally suggest 7 to 8 Ph how ever other ppl have differing opinions. conductivity well that's really not that important but a lot of ppl like non conductive fluids. I know our Ultra pure is at 0.1 to 0.5 PPM but like most know once its in a loop it starts to sky rocket with in 1 week or so. I have seen them go from 0.5 to 400+ with in a matter of days.

As for meters i personally recommend HM digital equipment for middle of the range testing.

http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/com100.html this for PPM / TDS as its very good
http://www.tdsmeter.com/products/ph200.html this for TDS

The cheap ones i found are not very accurate and need calibrating all the time. They seem to lose sink a lot which is no good for me as i have to test hourly. I have all so got several in-line meters running how ever the price of them was £400+.

I saw your post about stagnant water and i believe my self a lot of the problems now a days is about water quality. You came to some really good conclusions on it. I would love to be able to type up a post like you did how ever dyslexia gets in the way .

[Martinm210]

Awesome! I got lucky and ordered that same HM meter for conductivity...
I didn't order the same PH meter, but it had .01PH resolution, so I figured what the heck..should be good enough for my tinkering/educational needs.
Thanks!
Martin

[mlwood37]

Martin dont forget to order some calibration solution.

PH meter will need 3 for accuracy PH 5 / 7 / 10
The TDS meter get 240 PPM

with out these you cannot calibrate it.

All so you can make your own TDS / PPM liquid. i did a post over at bit tech and on here once -> http://forums.bit-tech.net/showthread.php?t=212354

[Kayin]

All right, I'll look at running some tests for you guys. Mick, shoot me a PM and let me know what I need for these setups. Let me know what tests you want and I'll see how quickly I can put it together.

I'm in the midst of building a dedicated underground lab, but I'll gladly run some of these-I'm betting I know what I'll find, but it'll be educational at any rate.

[Martinm210]

The PH meter comes with one PH7 calibration solution, but I didn't have anything for the PPM. I think I could get that table salt trick a try...thanks!

[mlwood37]

Martin if you would like some biocide as well just let me know. Ill also send you some buffers as well.

Kayin ill sort some stuff out tonight for you. just send me your address and ill ship it across.

[Martinm210]

I have already tested copper sulfate long term for two years with great success, so I have no doubt your copper sulfate product will work well. What I haven't tried is the citrict acid piece which I am interested in trying after I get my next corrosion blocker test done. I plan to do a long term test next on a low toxicity corrosion blocker based coolant and see how that goes.

I really need to figure out ways to accelerate corrosion and algae growth in a dish to do these coolant type tests, but I am not quite sure the best methods to do that yet. Need to read up on the net still. For now I only have one long term test loop I can use to do 6mo tests and already booked for the next round.

[wez]

I'll make some citric acid and try out together with silver, and see what happens. Might switch out the tubing for fresh ones as well.

[Petra]

This obversely is for the purists out there whom like to keep there system running with out Premixed coolants how ever with the added bonus of Citric Acid and is a small advance on PH Nuke.

I'll just leave this here...

[mlwood37]

Cool .. that's good to know is there any other ingredients in there as we have two others as well. Just haven't said about them yet. Some thing we just have to keep quiet about.

[Petra]

Cool .. that's good to know is there any other ingredients in there as we have two others as well. Just haven't said about them yet. Some thing we just have to keep quiet about.

That's something that I can no longer discuss, as the two biocides I developed were part of the sale of PTS to Sidewinder. All I can do is point out publicly available information...

[mlwood37]

not a problem and i understand . hope fully ours is different enough that were not crossing each other.

[Petra]

hope fully ours is different enough that were not crossing each other.

Eh, that would be between you and Gary--like I've said before, I don't really have anything to do with PTS/Sidewinder anymore. I posted merely because an assumption you were making about Nuke -Cu was incorrect and there was publicly available information that I could present as support. Nevermind that a simple search of my past posts on XS would have also shown evidence of Nuke -Cu containing citric acid.

[mlwood37]

yeh we didn't know you have it in tbh. never though of looking it up before we started working on it. How ever like i say this should be different and like with our past conversation the naming is kept different so ppl dont get mixed up.