CryoBUG is Back

[mytekcontrols]

Mytekcontrols,

Lets trade some services or gas, I can cut the case accurate to .001"

I can cut < 1/2" aluminum plate and softer, I have not run steel nor do I have the bits for.

I have 3D MultiCam router
Kongsburg XL router
Checkmate King 120 laser cutter (cost a bit more than $1350 )

With DXF files on the flat panels it could be done in no time including printing of the face in color.

Fugger thanks for the offer, but my mind is already made up to proceed with my original plans. Time is of the essence, and I know from previous dealings with Front Panel Express, that there will be no problems.

Edit: Pretty impressive set-up you have! What do you use this all for?

[mytekcontrols]

Ok to put things in perspective, I thought you guys might be interested in what I perceive to be my competition.

Unlike the overclocking world, the vacuum coating system field has got to be one of the most expensive areas to enter. Probably ranking right up there with the medical diagnostic instrument business. Vacuum chambers can easily cost up into the multimillion dollar regime, and the accessories that go with are usually priced in multiples of $10k each.

Currently Brooks Automation sells what they call a Polycold PCC Compact Cooler (pictured below).

PCC_Compact_Cooler.png

This is as close as they have to what I am building. It goes for around $10,000 in it's stock configuration.

By the time I get done with my CryoBUG Demonstration Unit, I will have $2,000 invested. This is a pre-production concept unit, so costs are expected to be high as compared to actual production numbers, where better mass production techniques and quantity discounts will apply.

Without trying to toot my own horn, I think my unit including it's integral cold head, will look a bit nicer then the PCC's plain vanilla box-like look.

Basically this has to look extremely pro, with no resemblance to something I built in my garage (even though it will be). I suspect many of you on this forum have spent $2,000 in motherboards, CPU's, power supplies, memory, video cards, and a small chiller to allow you to overclock it for a few minutes or hours at a time. I simply choose to spend it on something I am hoping will make me some good money down the road.

Edit: I just re-read what I wrote in that last paragraph, and im afraid some might take it the wrong way. What I really meant to say was, we all are willing to put lots of money into our dreams and what we love. For some that's overclocking, and for others like myself it's getting down another 10 degrees C. Neither goal is better then the other, they are just different.

[Charles Wirth]

I work at a large format sign shop in Las Vegas, these are just some of the cool stuff we use.

I was just in SFO and met up with Stephen, we brought back the autocascade. We are getting power to where we want it and then firing it up, I see that it is still holding a charge so it should be good to go.

iirc it went down to -156c

[mytekcontrols]

I work at a large format sign shop in Las Vegas, these are just some of the cool stuff we use.)

I could definitely see your equipment being very useful in the sign business.

I was just in SFO and met up with Stephen, we brought back the autocascade. We are getting power to where we want it and then firing it up, I see that it is still holding a charge so it should be good to go.

iirc it went down to -156c

I think Stephen was one of the first people I talked to when I joined this forum many years ago. Is that the same autocascade that Cryotek modified and recharged?

Be kinda cool to put the CryoBUG next to that one and have a race down into the -150's. I'd be curious as to the end result

[michaelrw]

what are you thinking your completed production models will be retailing at? given the +/- $1000 case

[Buckeye]

I work at a large format sign shop in Las Vegas, these are just some of the cool stuff we use.

I was just in SFO and met up with Stephen, we brought back the autocascade. We are getting power to where we want it and then firing it up, I see that it is still holding a charge so it should be good to go.

iirc it went down to -156c

Autocascade ????

Do you have any pictures of this or links to info ?

[Dumo]

Autocascade ????

Do you have any pictures of this or links to info ?

Heres http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....3!&highlight=

[mytekcontrols]

what are you thinking your completed production models will be retailing at? given the +/- $1000 case

I most likely will not be producing any of these myself, but if I was to estimate what the MSRP would be, it would be in the $10k territory inclusive of the cold head. The model I am making is strictly a demonstration unit, to show an example of the technology in a professional form. If it were to go full production, there would likely be changes to make this even more profitable, such as a sheet metal formed enclosure with silk screening.

This first unit will be something that I can easily take with me when I approach prospective clients in need of something like this. The technology would be licensed for 3rd party manufacturing.

[Buckeye]

Heres http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/....3!&highlight=

WOW

Thanks for the link

[mytekcontrols]

Update: My enclosure should be arriving here about the middle of next week

I am both excited and a bit scared. Nothing like piecing together the real thing to see if I messed up somewhere

In the meantime I have begun laying out the basic compressor compartment piping in a virtual way. So far it looks pretty good, and although a bit tight, should work out alright (see top view drawing below).

CryoBUG_Piping.png
Note: HX Stack and connections to Cold Head not shown.

The weight distribution should work out fairly even, which is good, since I'll have a single swing up handle for picking this thing up and hauling it around. Total weight looks to be 45-50 lbs, so although not exactly lightweight it should be good for short distances, but I'd want a roll-around for the long distant moves (especially with my creaky old back).

Most of the KF-50 (vacuum flange)/Cold Head assembly is made out of stainless steel. So this all by itself represents just a tad over 3 lbs. But having this weight plus the weight of the copper HX's, tends to counteract the nearly 15 lbs of compressor weight on the opposite side.

The thermowell has it's copper tip buried in the Copper Cold Head, and when I slide in a thermocouple probe, should yield a fairly accurate representation of the actual Cold Head temperature.

[mytekcontrols]

Here are some pics of the Cold Head that will be used on the CryoBUG...

Back Side View: Cold Head showing final cap tube coiled around suction return tube (SST tube is thermowell)
DSC00444.jpg

Mount Rear View: Mounting flange with liquid line bonded to inner wall (condensation prevention)
DSC00446.jpg

Mount Top View: Mounting flange...
DSC00448.jpg

Both pieces assembled but not welded as of yet
DSC00449.jpg

This Cold Head is being modified to suit my application. It was originally set-up with a teed dual KF-50 vacuum flange and 1/2" Parker CPI coupled In & Out lines. All of this has been removed, and made ready to interface to the AutoC HX stack and accept the Conflat half nipple flange for attachment to my unit. I still need to get the two pieces welded together, but I will hold off on this until I am certain that nothing I silver soldered leaks (because it would be hell to try and rebraze down inside the 2" SST tube).

Luckily I was able to get the basic Cold Head for free, so my costs will only be for the Conflat half nipple and the welding. This particular Cold Head was designed by the first manufacturer I intend to approach to see if they would be interested in using the CryoBUG technology.

About the liquid line aspect...
Even though there is a thermal isolation aspect to the In and Out connections, it is not 100% effective, and if left unchecked would result in condensation and possibly some ice forming on the 2" SST tubing. So although the interior will be polyurethane foam insulated, there is still a pretty good certainty that this will happen. By running the room temperature liquid line around the inside of the SST tube, this tendency to get cold should be minimized considerably (at least that is the hope).

Edit: Although this Cold Head will probably work just fine, I have been thinking of better, simpler ways to build one from scratch utilizing a different thermal isolation strategy.

[mytekcontrols]

My Front Panel Express Order Arrived
DSC00451.jpg

Inner Box for HX Stack assembled
DSC00456.jpg

Fan panel/condenser shelf in place
DSC00458.jpg

Almost done
DSC00473.jpg

Rear View w/Cold Head attached (still needs to be welded, green tape holding it together)
DSC00468.jpg

Front View showing control panel
DSC00469.jpg

And the most amazing part? Everything fit together perfectly (now I can stop holding my breath).

I'll need to do some disassembling as I now prepare to build the innards.

I did get the Cold Head welded yesterday to the mounting flange by one of the guys I do Polycold service work for. His name is also Mike (Mike Mullen co-owner M&T Systems), and I've gotta say he is an excellent stainless steel welder (see below). Best part of all he didn't charge me a thing. BTW, that weld was done nearly on top of an existing one.

DSC00478.jpg

I have been real lucky with this aspect of the project. The main Cold Head I got for free, machining the cut tube true was done by Randy's Design & Machine with a donation of his time, and Mike welded the two pieces together also for free. So my only cost was purchasing the Conflat half nipple, which cost me $75 w/shipping. If I had to come up with all of this from scratch, it would have easily been up in the $600-$800 range or more. I am real appreciative for everyone that contributed to this project.

Edit: I just found out the other day that the Cold Head as originally configured, cost nearly $1,500. Kind of puts things in a new light.

Now on to building another HX Stack and installing all the refrigeration parts of the system (I want to leave my breadboard prototype alone).

[Patrickclouds]

looks very impressive. excellent work

what is the use of the steel pipe on the cold head?

you wrote that you soldered the liquid line to prevent condensation. which temperature has your liquid line? is it the liquid line behind the air heat exchanger?

[Buckeye]

Very nice looking unit Michael.
You do wonderful looking brazing work !

[mytekcontrols]

looks very impressive. excellent work

what is the use of the steel pipe on the cold head?

you wrote that you soldered the liquid line to prevent condensation. which temperature has your liquid line? is it the liquid line behind the air heat exchanger?

On the original application for the Cold Head, it had two 1/2" o.d. feed and return lines are within a 2" SST KF-50 flanged Tee. The inside of this Tee was in a vacuum to create vacuum jacketed lines for insulation from the outside world (there was also a super insulation sleeving around the 1/2" tubes). The vacuum in the lines was produced and isolated from the vacuum on the Cold Head side which was much lower in pressure. In an attempt to prevent conduction where the 1/2" tubes passed through the isolation barrier of the Cold Head, slightly larger thin wall tubes surround the 1/2" tubes and have a drilled cap welded to both the larger thin wall tube and the 1/2" tube that passes through it (you can sort of see part of this in the photo). The inside of these larger tubes also shared the vacuum of the line side.

Anyway the thermal isolation wasn't 100% effective, so some conduction from the 1/2" tubing to the KF-50 flange and 2" SST tubing occurs. Enough so that condensation forms and even a slight amount of ice. What I did was bond part of my liquid line coming from the air cooled condenser to the inside of the 2" SST tube. Then I foam insulated the interior so that the evaporator feed and return do not see this. essentially the foam insulation is between the two.

The Cold Head side will still be in a vacuum, where a copper shield (as they call it) will be bolted to the cold head. This shield surrounds the inside of a small chamber where hard disk platters are coated. The purpose of all of this is to freeze out the water vapor in the chamber, what is commonly referred to as water vapor cryopumping. The vacuum is low enough, that it requires at least -130C to keep the water frozen.

Lastly I have replaced a vacuum on the line side with polyurethane foam insulation.

I don't know if any of this makes sense, or if it really answers your questions, but it is a difficult thing to describe.

[mytekcontrols]

Very nice looking unit Michael.
You do wonderful looking brazing work !

I can't take credit for the brazing on the Cold Head. That was done by a process called oven brazing, something that someone else already did before I got my hands on it.

However I did do the silver solder work bonding the tubing inside the 2" SST tube, and the copper feed and return connections. So if you are referring to those, then I thank you very much for the compliment.

[Patrickclouds]

thanks for explanation
I know that it is a difficult subject. I sometimes looked for cold heads on ebay but they often use helium compressors.

i thought you've sandblasted it after brazing

PhilippF was the one who did oven brazed evpas:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...n-brazed-Evaps

[mytekcontrols]

i thought you've sandblasted it after brazing

PhilippF was the one who did oven brazed evpas:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...n-brazed-Evaps

Yep you caught me, I did bead blast it. Not that it looked horrible before, because the silver solder flux does do a pretty good job at keeping it reasonably clean.

Thanks for the link. Pretty cool that he was able to do this process himself.

Yep most of the Cold Heads you'll find usually come with a lot of unneeded baggage.

[mytekcontrols]

Here's a look at where I am at today...

CryoBUG_Assy_in_Process.jpg

It's been holding 275 psi of pressure for 24 hours thus far, and passed the TIF sniffer test. I still have the wiring to do, thermocouples, and then I'll button up the HX housing for foaming (spray-in Polyurethane foam insulation).

Foaming gets done prior to installing the horizontal air condenser, which resides above the HX box. So I've got to make absolutely sure nothing leaks!

The suction vibration eliminator has been heat shrinked to seal out moisture, as well as insulated with armaflex. And as can be seen, I still have a small portion of the suction line left to insulate.

Pressure switches hang below the gauges. For such a small system these are optional (the original R-410a window AC unit that I pulled the compressor and air condenser out of didn't have any safeties besides the overload, and it runs higher pressures then my CryoBUG). But I think it's good insurance to have them.

[plasmatique]

MAGNIFICENT! What a beautiful work!

[mytekcontrols]

I finished the assembly today, put her on a pump until it got down to 78 microns, threw in some reclaimed gases, and fired it up.

CryoBUG_Ice.jpg

I really have no idea what the test charge precisely consisted of, and it certainly wasn't what I will be putting in later on, but it did cool down quick and started leveling off around -80 C (I do know that there was NO Argon and very little R14). It was just nice to see that everything appeared to be functioning correctly.

CryoBUG_initial_test.jpg

The temperature in Red = the Cold Head thermocouple, and Green = the set point temperature for relay closure on the remote (let's the customer know when the unit has cooled down).

When I first started her up, and after about a minute, the suction dropped down to just under 5 psi and caused a low pressure shutdown. It was cool to see a red LED light up on the compressor symbol (indicating the location of the fault), and the power switch LED flashing in red. Essentially it let me know that the controller was doing it's job. I simply added a bit more ethane and started it back up.

In a few days I'll post a video showing the foam insulation process for the heat exchangers.

[n00b 0f l337]

Very nicely done Michael.
I look forward to seeing the foaming shenanigans.
I see a handle on the top, what's the total unit weight?

[mytekcontrols]

Very nicely done Michael.
I look forward to seeing the foaming shenanigans.
I see a handle on the top, what's the total unit weight?

Thanks Adam, and also plasmatique for your earlier compliment.

The weight of the unit is just under 50 lbs. The handle in case you were wondering, is designed to hold up to 150 lbs. It's very well built, kinda like the Mercedes of handles.

In order to make sure that the top panel doesn't bend, there is a large support rod that passes through the condenser connecting the handle directly to the bottom via the HX housing. Of course this also required a slight mod to the air cooled condenser, since a tube passed directly in the spot where the support rod needed to go through. Basically I deactivated one pass, or better said, I bypassed it.

[mytekcontrols]

Here's the video I shot today showing the CryoBUG HX Stack insulation process done with professional equipment...

[kang-China]

yes ,you machine is very nice ,
but ,i think somthing is not very well with ,your this machine.

for example,your ref is no Ar and ,a little 14
so that the temp at last ,i thank is not very low ,

what do you thank.