Kepler Nvidia GeForce GTX 780

[boxleitnerb]

Nvidia will have a dual GK104 card, too. This time it's likely going to win due to lower TDP.
It's an interesting situation. Who will do the next step? And if you know that the other one is doing it, will it be too late for you?

[Kristoferr]

I would like to see dual GPU on 7870 base, which has extremely impressive perf per watt ratio and its way smaller gpu than GTX680. Seing that its 256bit mem controller is really enough to keep up, i dont see any reason why not go for it.
Maybe they can even push clocks up more than Ghz per core.

[The Jesus]

I would like to see dual GPU on 7870 base, which has extremely impressive perf per watt ratio and its way smaller gpu than GTX680. Seing that its 256bit mem controller is really enough to keep up, i dont see any reason why not go for it.
Maybe they can even push clocks up more than Ghz per core.

They did it last series with 6870 X2, I'm sure one of the partners will make it this time.

[Pantsu]

I find the notion of holding back cards or AMD having the ability to somehow react to a considerably faster card with anything but price adjustments silly. These cards take close to a year to get from tape out to being available in stores. Adjustments you can make after tape out are fairly small unless you're willing to spend a quarter or two and take it for a new spin. If we entertain the thought that GK100 was to be at some point and was cancelled afterwards, and a replacement GK110 was taped out in January like Charlie claimed, we'll be lucky if it launches this year. Nvidia named GK104 GTX 680 which should be indication enough that no faster single GPU is coming any time soon.

[Russian]

I find the notion of holding back cards or AMD having the ability to somehow react to a considerably faster card with anything but price adjustments silly. These cards take close to a year to get from tape out to being available in stores. Adjustments you can make after tape out are fairly small unless you're willing to spend a quarter or two and take it for a new spin. If we entertain the thought that GK100 was to be at some point and was cancelled afterwards, and a replacement GK110 was taped out in January like Charlie claimed, we'll be lucky if it launches this year. Nvidia named GK104 GTX 680 which should be indication enough that no faster single GPU is coming any time soon.

Not a big fan of believing anything charlie says, especially when the topic is NVDA.

[DilTech]

I find the notion of holding back cards or AMD having the ability to somehow react to a considerably faster card with anything but price adjustments silly. These cards take close to a year to get from tape out to being available in stores. Adjustments you can make after tape out are fairly small unless you're willing to spend a quarter or two and take it for a new spin. If we entertain the thought that GK100 was to be at some point and was cancelled afterwards, and a replacement GK110 was taped out in January like Charlie claimed, we'll be lucky if it launches this year. Nvidia named GK104 GTX 680 which should be indication enough that no faster single GPU is coming any time soon.

You're assuming chips weren't being prepped along side one another... No one ever said the design was cancelled. It just vanished from talks after AMD showed off their 7970.

Also, they don't take a year from tape out unless the design ends up needing a lot of work. A solid example is that the NVidia G80 taped out in July of 2006 and launched in November of the same year. Taking a full year means a LOT of mistakes were made, requiring a few respins to fix the problems.

Finally, realistically AMD's answer will be the 7990 (likely a 7970x2). This won't require a new chip.

Either way, this wouldn't be the first time either company has released a card and trumped it shortly after... The x1800xt had what, 2 months to shine before AMD dropped the x1900?

Nvidia will have a dual GK104 card, too. This time it's likely going to win due to lower TDP.
It's an interesting situation. Who will do the next step? And if you know that the other one is doing it, will it be too late for you?

Personally, I hope they get on with the show sooner than later. Last thing I want to see is the obvious price gouging we have presently going on right now. Highest price single gpu we've seen out of AMD since...well...the x1900xt.

[Pantsu]

I wouldn't call any other rumors about GK110 any more believable.

[tajoh111]

It's not like releasing a gk110 wouldn't be nice for Nvidia. It just that considering the circumstances, releasing gk110 later doesn't hurt them that much and releasing it later can be good for them or perhaps both companies even for the long term. With AMD raising prices of graphics cards across the board, and Nvidia can do one of two things, price gk104 aggressively and call it gtx 660 and price it accordingly. This in turn would set off a price war which would be less profitable for both companies. Or do what is rumored and follow AMD pricing/performance, call it the gtx 680 and price it as such. This would also allows the company to raise the price of the rest of their lineup and ease people into paying 100 dollars more for gk110 when it does come out in the future.

Releasing a gk110 right now, if it was available, would make a $550 gk104 not make any sense. Considering gk110 is mass produced and this is the consumer market, i think the max price of such a high end is 650 to 700 dollars. If the die of gk110 is 60% bigger, i would expect gk 110 to be 30-50% faster. With such a performance delta, gk104 would have a hard time justifying its 550 dollar price. Also with GK110 taking the gtx 680 name, gk104 would be stuck with the gtx 660 name and there is no way this card could be sold at $550.

If Gk104 was dramatically slower than the 7970, they would need gk110 to come out much sooner, similar to how AMD needed a successor to the 2900 xt as soon as possible. The high price of the 7xxx and/or relatively small performance jump over last generations high end has giving Nvidia so much flexibility this generation on their release schedule and pricing. Look at the price/performance of their old last generation cards compared to AMD's new cards and you will see this. Beside the gtx 580, both companies last generation have hardly needed much for price cuts. Old stock doesn't need dramatic price drops to sell and Nvidia can thank AMD for this. A GK110 doesn't need to come out right now because AMD has shown Nvidia, people will pay 550 for the performance level of the 7970.

[LordEC911]

Let's be honest... right now, AMD's biggest limitation in putting out a dual-GPU card is that they'd have to significantly dial down the clock speeds in order to hit 300w. Their biggest enemies are heat and power consumption, sounds really familiar actually. lol

Or they could just play with the voltage a bit...

[DilTech]

Or they could just play with the voltage a bit...

Exactly. AMD can easily lower the default voltage without too much hassle. Considering the clocks people get out of the 7970 on stock voltage, dropping it down shouldn't be too much trouble.

[Rollo]

So Dimi and Rollo both think there is nothing else in the works?
Nvidia just decided to turn it's back on the Tesla/Quadro market after all the work they have done over the years?

What an amazing analysis on the market.

Actually I said there's always other parts in the works, and don't doubt there are more powerful Kepler chips in process.

What I said is:
A. Given the state of the market, it could make good sense to launch what might have been the 2nd or 3rd tier chip first to take advantage of better margins as it would certainly be cheaper to produce and still reportedly beats the competition.
B. Could be the bigger chip isn't able to be brought to market profitably now due to yield issues.
C. It doesn't make much sense to endlessly debate unreleased rumored products, because we can't buy them.

I think that is pretty "good analysis".

[Rollo]

Sitting on your cards for too long leaves them smelling like crap. Blowing out old stock is fine. Rolling out new parts is fine, but dont do it too long or you might end up with a case of self-inflicted butt-hurt.

I'm glad none of you guys are handling my money.

And yet NVIDIA is the only successful company in the graphics industry. Every other one (save Matrox) has ended up sold out to another company. (or bankrupt)

They seem to know something about profitable operation.

[trinibwoy]

If there is a GK110 then in the unlikely event it's even ready now yields would be far below GK104. It would be rather stupid to sell a large low yielding chip into the consumer segment when you can get the same price for a much smaller higher yielding die.

AMD did nVidia a huge favor with Southern Islands pricing. Both companies win.

[Pantsu]

AMD did nVidia a huge favor with Southern Islands pricing. Both companies win.

What's interesting though is how AMD will react to GTX 680. Let's say it's 10-20% faster than 7970 and costs 549$ like the leaks indicate. AMD has the bigger chip and more vRAM on its card, so competing with price will be more expensive for them. Yet if Nvidia can duplicate the success of GK104 in the lower end too, AMD is in a lot of trouble. The only hope of AMD is that Nvidia won't respond to price cuts and will simply milk GK104 for all its worth.

[SubZero.it]

Why couldn't Nvidia just call the GK110 a 690 and the dual GK104 a 685 and dual GK110 695? The naming structure isn't holy and unchangeable...

I expect the 7990 to be about $749 as a minimum, more than likely $799. The 6990 was what, like $649 or something? When the GK104 actually hits retail, it'll go one of three ways:

1. It will perform roughly the same as 7970 (at same clocks, not stock with turbo to win. The people that buy $500+ video cards are overclocking, unless they're just rich kids) and AMD will drop prices ~$25 to lure anyone on the fence waiting for Kepler.
or
2. It will beat the 7970 and be priced at $549, then AMD will drop the price $50 and push the 7990 out ASAP.
or
3. It will be beaten by the 7970 and be priced at $499. AMD will either keep their price points or lower them slightly just to put the squeeze on Nvidia for once.

Those sound like the logical outcomes to me. Opinions?

You missed the most believable one. 680 is on par/a little less performer and priced considerably less.

[Cuthalu]

AMD has the bigger chip and more vRAM on its card, so competing with price will be more expensive for them. Yet if Nvidia can duplicate the success of GK104 in the lower end too, AMD is in a lot of trouble.

Just like they were in huge problems with the original launch prices of 3xxx-, 4xxx-, 5xxx-, and 6xxx-series? There's plenty of room for the price to go down.

[Jamesrt2004]

What's interesting though is how AMD will react to GTX 680. Let's say it's 10-20% faster than 7970 and costs 549$ like the leaks indicate. AMD has the bigger chip and more vRAM on its card, so competing with price will be more expensive for them. Yet if Nvidia can duplicate the success of GK104 in the lower end too, AMD is in a lot of trouble. The only hope of AMD is that Nvidia won't respond to price cuts and will simply milk GK104 for all its worth.

10-20%? i see them trading blows with 5/10% swinging either way really. Wont be a price war for a while! But I believe both companies have a fairly large room to manoeuvre on price this time

[LordEC911]

Actually I said there's always other parts in the works, and don't doubt there are more powerful Kepler chips in process.

What I said is:
A. Given the state of the market, it could make good sense to launch what might have been the 2nd or 3rd tier chip first to take advantage of better margins as it would certainly be cheaper to produce and still reportedly beats the competition.
B. Could be the bigger chip isn't able to be brought to market profitably now due to yield issues.
C. It doesn't make much sense to endlessly debate unreleased rumored products, because we can't buy them.

I think that is pretty "good analysis".

A. Good sense, yes. It's the only option at this point in time.
B. Or it isn't ready...
C. Says the person debating an "unreleased rumored product that we can't buy."

That isn't much of an analysis.

PS- This convo reminds me that I should start a betting pool...

[Pantsu]

10-20%? i see them trading blows with 5/10% swinging either way really. Wont be a price war for a while! But I believe both companies have a fairly large room to manoeuvre on price this time

My estimation was for 3DMark and 1920x1080 4xAA performance when there's no need for the extra bandwidth grunt 7970 has. You can already see which cases those would be based on 7870 performance. No doubt 7970 willl be faster in those games and 30" and eyefinity resolutions, unless Nvidia really has some sort of trick up their sleeves for Surround. Compute goes for AMD too, but does a gamer really care?

If AMD drops prices, Nvidia can always do the same, and it will most likely be much easier for them, at least after they get production quantities in order. My guess is AMD will have to drop their prices 50$ or so and Nvidia simply won't have to since demand will exceed any supply they might have, given their warnings of low 28 nm production quantities. AMD can probably match the GTX 680 with OC 7970 cards like the MSI Lightning, but we'll just have to see how Nvidia cards will OC in turn.

[Levish]

Just like they were in huge problems with the original launch prices of 3xxx-, 4xxx-, 5xxx-, and 6xxx-series? There's plenty of room for the price to go down.

+1 I could easily see the 7950 &7970 dropping to 350 & 400 respectively, possibly with lower vram models

[snoid_zero]

looks like nVidia's mid-range line-up will be occupied by GTX 570 & 580
Amazon now repriced it's ASUS GTX570 DirectCU II to $299.99

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...00_i00_details

[marten_larsson]

I find it hilarious that people claim AMD can't compete with Nvidia because now, for the first time since RV770/GT200 Nvidia has the better perf/mm² and perf/W if leaks are believable. Nvidia managed to compete with AMD "only" by throwing a whole lot of die area and transistors on the chips. AMD has been doing this with CPUs for a long time, they will probably be able to do it on the graphics market as well.

[N19h7m4r3]

Here's something from OCUK

First benchies from the guy in the shop with one.

(For comparison I get 48 at these same settings, my 480 runs ~580 speed, his CPU is an I3 but even so I am underwhelmed)

Unforturnately the cpu and res is a disappointed pairing.

EDIT:
Here's what a user at overclock.net posted using his 7970

[SKYMTL]

Are these cards not PCI-E 3.0?

You have to remember that most modern GPUs downshift their PCI-E lanes when at idle in order to save power. If you leave it idle long enough, you'll actually see the HD 7000-series actually transition into PCI-E 1.0 mode.

[Rattle]

He's running 32bit, not sure if that matters.

I just ran heaven at his settings with 2500k @ 4.4

FPS 59.8
Score 1507

MIN 12.7
MAX 157.1

7970 @ 1000/1425

GTX 680 looks to be at least as fast as 7970