Kepler Nvidia GeForce GTX 780

[N19h7m4r3]

The 8800GTX was definitely a special case. Price vs Performance it was on top of the world even at the $600 price tag--especially when you consider that up until the 8800GT the midrange was pretty horrid during the first year of its lifespan. IMO it was probably the best gpu of the last decade (runner up being the 9800pro 128mb). It actually beat SLi/CF at the time at stock with plenty of room to spare, and is still able to play games (albeit not maxed out any more) over 5 years later. THAT is technically a good value no matter how you look at it.

I don't see myself paying for another ultra high-end card again though. Not with these weak 30% performance gains the companies are showing us.

The 8800GTX was the best and most expensive gpu I had ever bought.

It served me extremely well, and I do see myself needing a top end gpu again. Yet I can't bring myself to buy the current GTX580 3GB or 7970 3GB at their current price to performance increases.

As such I'm looking forward to the new kepler cards to see what they bring.

As I stated before I do think they'll give us some indication of the price of the high end versions.

If they are coming out in April that's no problem, I can wait and there's no real pressing need just yet to retire my current GPU.
I'll deal wit medium setting in some games.

[Olivon]

The 8800GTX was definitely a special case. Price vs Performance it was on top of the world even at the $600 price tag--especially when you consider that up until the 8800GT the midrange was pretty horrid during the first year of its lifespan. IMO it was probably the best gpu of the last decade (runner up being the 9800pro 128mb). It actually beat SLi/CF at the time at stock with plenty of room to spare, and is still able to play games (albeit not maxed out any more) over 5 years later. THAT is technically a good value no matter how you look at it.

I don't see myself paying for another ultra high-end card again though. Not with these weak 30% performance gains the companies are showing us.

You're right DilTech !

8800 chip is a reference but I tend to say no more. As a friend said, G80 90nm chip was 484 mm² and G71 was 194mm² on 90nm too. The exploit seems difficult to achieve again ...

[kgk]

I wouldn't call you a "penny pincher", you buy what you need at the price and performance level you find acceptable.

However this does not apply to the folks who consider spending $600 on a video card, this breed has a different set of standards and more power to them if it's worth it to them.

These are guys looking for performance first value second, to them the biggest value is in having maximum performance more so than price.

Hardware is a classic case of "to each his own", if it suits your needs and is within your budget who's to argue with them.

It wasn't that long ago really that I didn't bat an eye at buying a $600 8800gtx, at the time the performance was well worth it for me. Today it would take a helluva piece of hardware to get me excited enough to pony up $600 bones.

Wait what? Comparing the current situation to the 8800GTX/Ultra era is like comparing apples and bowling balls.

I am more than willing to pay $600 for a GPU. However for that price it better provide commensurate performance in the current market. The 7970 does not do that. Not at over $600. Not by a long shot.

It's also rather pointless to consider spending over $600 on a 28nm GPU (unless the upgrade is drastically needed) when competing products haven't even been released and it barely exceeds the performance of the previous generation. There is no earth-shattering leap in performance.

Leaping into the next gen (28nm) GPU high-end without waiting until both companies have their products competing on the market means a person is either in drastic need of an upgrade, prefers them for a practical reason (Eyefinity or Linux support), or they are simply an impatient rube. If NVIDIA had released first I'd be saying the exact same thing.

[highoctane]

Wait what? Comparing the current situation to the 8800GTX/Ultra era is like comparing apples and bowling balls.

I am more than willing to pay $600 for a GPU. However for that price it better provide commensurate performance in the current market. The 7970 does not do that. Not at over $600. Not by a long shot.

It's also rather pointless to consider spending over $600 on a 28nm GPU (unless the upgrade is drastically needed) when competing products haven't even been released and it barely exceeds the performance of the previous generation. There is no earth-shattering leap in performance.

Leaping into the next gen (28nm) GPU high-end without waiting until both companies have their products competing on the market means a person is either in drastic need of an upgrade, prefers them for a practical reason (Eyefinity or Linux support), or they are simply an impatient rube. If NVIDIA had released first I'd be saying the exact same thing.

Personally I am not willing to pay $600 for a video card, it's simply not something I need to spend that much on even if it offered 4x the performance, I have no use for 10x the performance for say $200.

It's only your perspective whether or not spending $600 on a particular 28nm video card is pointless. You cannot speak for the needs or wants of other people using your personal rational whether the competition has comparable product or not, that only suits your own rational.

I would imagine allot of people on this forum don't have a real practical need for the hardware they have, its the simple enjoyment of tinkering with the latest hardware and seeing what it can do.

I bet there are allot of folks on here that like to OC and bench hardware without much of a rational use outside of OC'ing and benching and dare I say not gaming.

[kgk]

Personally I am not willing to pay $600 for a video card, it's simply not something I need to spend that much on even if it offered 4x the performance, I have no use for 10x the performance for say $200.

I am not entirely sure what you are trying to convey in that sentence.

It's only your perspective whether or not spending $600 on a particular 28nm video card is pointless. You cannot speak for the needs or wants of other people using your personal rational whether the competition has comparable product or not, that only suits your own rational.

Which is why I discussed uses other than my own and made sure to clarify that my perceived shortcomings of the card are within my usage parameters.

I would imagine allot of people on this forum don't have a real practical need for the hardware they have, its the simple enjoyment of tinkering with the latest hardware and seeing what it can do.

Hence my stating an exception to the fact that this is "Xtreme Systems"

I bet there are allot of folks on here that like to OC and bench hardware without much of a rational use outside of OC'ing and benching and dare I say not gaming.

Which is why I kept my points of discussion to the main use of these cards: gaming (and made notable exception to the fact that this is XS). This is the news section, hence my discussing the relevance of the card to the general public (the main consumers of these cards). There are entire sub-forums here for Benchmarking and Competitions if you prefer that.

My point was that the card is clearly overpriced for what it is. I get the feeling you seem more intent on nitpicking or picking a fight.

[highoctane]

My point was that the card is clearly overpriced for what it is. I get the feeling you seem more intent on nitpicking or picking a fight.

You've got the wrong feeling then...

I agree it's overpriced as well, at least in regards to what I'm willing to pay but I know its well worth it to others. Obviously this is where our positions diverge.

[kgk]

You've got the wrong feeling then...

I agree it's overpriced as well, at least in regards to what I'm willing to pay but I know its well worth it to others. Obviously this is where our positions diverge.

Agreed. I apologize if I offended you.

[aussie-revhead]

Yes it's expensive, worth it to some and not to others. It's way too much for me but I love benching new gear so I bought one on release, benched it, felt the power, smashed my PB's and sold it again before initial prices dropped. I realise now, with the Kepler delays that I could have benched it a bit longer but I'm happy to wait and buy again when Kepler finally sees daylight, if it doesn't meet the hype I will buy another 7970 instead and water cool it.

[kjeldoran]

I think the 7970 is at a good price since it offers more performance than the gtx580. However, I wouldn't purchase it because it is not something I need. I buy mid-ranged cards and upgrade when I feel I need more performance. The most expensive card I ever bought was a radeon 9700 pro for $300 and its performance was leaps and bounds above any card I owned prior to its release. It was well worth it.


I am excited for the 7870 and Nvidia's mid-ranged offering. I could see myself purchasing one of these two cards in the future if I decide to move to 2560x1440.

[Lanek]

at the same time, the 9700pro ( Maya edition for me ) was a legend.... and still is a legend ...

I have kill 1 9700Pro and 2x 9800 ( no protection on OC at this time, if you was go too high, you was kill them, if you was seen an artefact when benching, the card was dead )

[Andrea deluxe]

megaofftopic.....

[N19h7m4r3]

I am excited for the 7870 and Nvidia's mid-ranged offering. I could see myself purchasing one of these two cards in the future if I decide to move to 2560x1440.

Surely if you want a 7870 you might as well buy a 6970, as the 7870 will essentially be the same for performance. There will probably jsut be difference in power consumption.

Similar to the 5870 vs the 6870. Where the 5870 was still a tad faster.

[kjeldoran]

Surely if you want a 7870 you might as well buy a 6970, as the 7870 will essentially be the same for performance. There will probably jsut be difference in power consumption.

Similar to the 5870 vs the 6870. Where the 5870 was still a tad faster.

Possibly, but given GCN I think it would be a better investment. However, I wait for reviews to decide what is the best choice. I do not have a brand preference.

[N19h7m4r3]

Possibly, but given GCN I think it would be a better investment. However, I wait for reviews to decide what is the best choice. I do not have a brand preference.

That's the best option alright. Wait and see what happens then buy what suits you best.

[SubZero.it]

Anyone more versed in Italian care to translate? that last part?

Translate it to marketing strategies again.
But ok..only time will tell.

[GoldenTiger]

From h...

Unread Today, 01:06 PM
Kyle_Bennett HardOCP Editor-in-Chief, 14.8 Years

Status: Kyle_Bennett is online now
I think NVIDIA put a bunch of disinformation out here very recently as to clocks and prices and such. Not sure what is going on yet. But we hear from China that GPU have been delivered in very small quantities and building should be moving forward very soon. So things are rolling and getting much much closer.

Take it for what it's worth.

[STEvil]

at the same time, the 9700pro ( Maya edition for me ) was a legend.... and still is a legend ...

I have kill 1 9700Pro and 2x 9800 ( no protection on OC at this time, if you was go too high, you was kill them, if you was seen an artefact when benching, the card was dead )

I saw plenty of artifacts, never killed a card during benching.

[Elfear]

Leaping into the next gen (28nm) GPU high-end without waiting until both companies have their products competing on the market means a person is either in drastic need of an upgrade, prefers them for a practical reason (Eyefinity or Linux support), or they are simply an impatient rube. If NVIDIA had released first I'd be saying the exact same thing.

Won't it be the same story when Kepler arrives? "But wait! AMD's refresh is coming soon so don't buy until you've had a chance to compare!" It's the perpetual waiting game. If the next-gen is really only a few weeks away, than I can see waiting a bit but we heard the "but wait" argument since Dec 22 and if Kepler arrives the end of March (pure speculation) it will have been three months. I wouldn't call someone a rube just because they don't want to wait months on end for the competition to arrive.

[phantomferrari]

Won't it be the same story when Kepler arrives? "But wait! AMD's refresh is coming soon so don't buy until you've had a chance to compare!" It's the perpetual waiting game. If the next-gen is really only a few weeks away, than I can see waiting a bit but we heard the "but wait" argument since Dec 22 and if Kepler arrives the end of March (pure speculation) it will have been three months. I wouldn't call someone a rube just because they don't want to wait months on end for the competition to arrive.

it is true that amd's refresh (8000 series?) wont be too far off when nvidia releases kepler but it will simply be that, a refresh. the 7000 series is a brand new architecture, kepler is a brand new architecture. since they are both brand new architectures and not refreshes i do agree people should wait to see who has a better leg to stand on.

[kuroikenshi]

ouroboros (the serpent eating its own tail) here clearly reflected in this paradigm of ever-waiting for the next best product... you wait forever and then end up buying something mid to low end..

lets wait a few weeks, its almost here, and once its here... wait a few weeks more, that new one its almost here....

*facepalm* just buy one already and quit crying!

[spursindonesia]

ouroboros (the serpent eating its own tail) here clearly reflected in this paradigm of ever-waiting for the next best product... you wait forever and then end up buying something mid to low end..

lets wait a few weeks, its almost here, and once its here... wait a few weeks more, that new one its almost here....

*facepalm* just buy one already and quit crying!

Quoted for the truth !! +1

[tajoh111]

ouroboros (the serpent eating its own tail) here clearly reflected in this paradigm of ever-waiting for the next best product... you wait forever and then end up buying something mid to low end..

lets wait a few weeks, its almost here, and once its here... wait a few weeks more, that new one its almost here....

*facepalm* just buy one already and quit crying!

People just want to save money which means buying in competition conditions. They might not even go with the gk104, they just want a price drop and/or more performance for the dollar. If you go back to the original 79xx thread, the very lowest people had for performance expectations was 30% faster than the gtx 580. This was considered to be on the more negative side. Most were expecting 50% faster, some were expecting upwards of 70 and 80 percent. In addition, with the pricing, people were not expecting the card to be this expensive(the 7970). When consumers settle on price and performance when expectations are clearly not met, we are basically doing exactly what a company wants to make as much money as possible. It is why companies like apple are so rich or let EA sports get away with releasing the same title every year at the same cost.

Unless a product sets a high bar, in which a competing product is not likely to be much better, something like the 9700 pro or gtx 8800, I don't see the harm in waiting. The only harm is if a particular game won't run on the hardware you have, a problem which people on this board really don't encounter.

[Olivon]

PHK has posted informations regarding GTX 680, 6+8 pins or 2X6 pins (670), 225W TDP :





http://bbs.expreview.com/thread-49708-1-1.html

http://bbs.expreview.com/thread-49706-1-1.html

http://bbs.expreview.com/thread-49707-1-1.html

via http://www.chiphell.com/thread-372315-1-1.html

[kuroikenshi]

People just want to save money which means buying in competition conditions. They might not even go with the gk104, they just want a price drop and/or more performance for the dollar. If you go back to the original 79xx thread, the very lowest people had for performance expectations was 30% faster than the gtx 580. This was considered to be on the more negative side. Most were expecting 50% faster, some were expecting upwards of 70 and 80 percent. In addition, with the pricing, people were not expecting the card to be this expensive(the 7970). When consumers settle on price and performance when expectations are clearly not met, we are basically doing exactly what a company wants to make as much money as possible. It is why companies like apple are so rich or let EA sports get away with releasing the same title every year at the same cost.

Unless a product sets a high bar, in which a competing product is not likely to be much better, something like the 9700 pro or gtx 8800, I don't see the harm in waiting. The only harm is if a particular game won't run on the hardware you have, a problem which people on this board really don't encounter.

this is true for some, but I have seen so many people waiting for high end and buying mid-range that although I can agree with your statement, it clearly does not include all of those who "are waiting"

@Olivon, thanks for those pics man, really appreciate it, now tickle me pink... I have never seen that way of putting 6 x 2 pin config. I hope its functional, because its downright ugly (regardless of the maker)

[Olivon]

GK104-Based Products Arriving March 23 - TPU

Expreview cited sources in the AIC (add-in card) vendors in pinning the launch of GeForce Kepler 104 (GK104) based products to March 23. The products launched are expected to be NVIDIA's first in its next-generation.