New to liquid cooling -- need suggestions - Money is no object :)

[jdb2]

Well, I've been using air cooling on my home-built systems since as far back as I can remember with the pinnacle now being a Thermalright Silver Arrow with 3 fans. Well, it's upgrade time, and every time I've upgraded I've told myself "next time I'm going to water cooling." Well, this time I am.

I have a $2000-$3000 system counting individual parts ( Actually $3800 as I just dropped ~$800 on a Corsair 32GB kit of 1.5v DDR3-1866 , this is also not counting the new motherboard I bought -- Asus Crosshair V Formula/Thunderbolt -- plus an AMD FX-8150 processor which adds up to $570 ) so money is no object. I plan on customizing a Mountain Mods case and setting up a custom water cooling system but I'm unsure what to buy in terms of the "best of the best."

Certainly I will be using a high end water block similar in quality to a Swiftech Apogee HD or XTL. Also, something along the lines of high end Eheim pump. For the radiator something along the lines of the highest end Black Ice, XSPC or perhaps an Aqua Computer Airplex. I have no idea of what brand and/or item to use for the reservoir. Also, I need advice on a full board ASUS Crosshair V Formula waterblock ( if one exists ) and the best waterblock for a GTX 580 ( I have 2 ).

So, if money is no object and price has no limit, what would you guys recommend for the ultimate water cooling component setup?

Thanks,

jdb2

[defect9]

what are your goals with watercooling this rig? specifically, what temp deltas are you hoping for, do you want any semblance of quiet, what sort of overclocks (if any) are you shooting for, etc, and any other goals you feel like mentioning.

do you understand that even going watercooling, your overclock potential isn't that much better than you'd get from a good air cooling setup?

[aerial]

Ultimate would be entire custom design, but if you just want to buy MM CYO model (just preconfigured), I would go for extended ascension (huge case, make sure you have room for it).
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/9615/lc:banana::banana::banana::banana:.jpg
I would use two 1080 (360x360) radiators, each with 4x180mm fans. Sure these fans are not as good as best 120mm, but to get to similar frontal area of radiators you would need 6 360 radiators, and at least 18 fans. Either setup is overkill, but the one with 180mm fans will be really quiet. All components in one simple loop, your water will have nearly ambient temperature no matter how many waterblocks you actually throw in. To properly mount these radiators, order 15mm vertical and horizontal spacing for vent holes on front and top panels.
This will not be even that expensive, relatively simple design, radiators are much cheaper than many smaller ones, you save on fans as well. This would be quiet performance monster. More expensive not always means better. Sure you can order 10 normal rads, put 50 fans into that setup, will cost lot more, but will be loud as hell too.

Also there is another alternative, what you mean by best setup. Is it only about huge case and performance, or exceptional build quality and design, then look for example for murdermod. It easily handles some regular sli setup, but is infinity times more refined than MM box.

[jdb2]

what are your goals with watercooling this rig? specifically, what temp deltas are you hoping for, do you want any semblance of quiet, what sort of overclocks (if any) are you shooting for, etc, and any other goals you feel like mentioning.

do you understand that even going watercooling, your overclock potential isn't that much better than you'd get from a good air cooling setup?

In terms of noise, 25dB or below would be nice. As for overclocking, I'm shooting for perhaps 5-5.5GHz for the processor. ( greater than 5GHz might only be achievable with a chiller ) Also, perhaps a 158Mhz overclock on both video cards' core clocks. ( eg. 797MHz -> 955Mhz) In addition, perhaps an overclock to 2000MHz on the RAM although I've heard that this ram can be pushed up to 2400MHz but I don't think that the processor's IMC could handle it.

I'd also like cooling on the chipset ( NB & SB ) plus the VRM ( eg. MOSFETs ) and my massive stack of hard drives.

jdb2

[jdb2]

I guess I just need to shop around at Performance-Pcs or FrozenCpu to get an idea of what's "high end" and what I really need for my specific needs. There's so much stuff on the market it's hard to sort out. I think I just need to familiarize myself with the various brands and terminology.

jdb2

EDIT : I admit that this post was a dumb question.

[jayhall0315]

This is Xtreme Systems and all, but how about sending a hundred bucks to a nearby children's orphanage or St Judes Children's Hospital, as a first step?

Now, with the unlimited remaining money you have, you can get something that does an excellent job like:

CPU - XSPC Raystorm or Swiftech Apogee HD
Board - You dont need a board block, unless you truly wish to flush the money down the toilet, only for bling. It does not get that hot
RAM - See board
GPUs - Two decent full cover blocks from EK or Swiftech should be great
Pump - One or two Swiftech 655/D5/Koolance 450
Tubing - Good ole Masterkleer works awesome and resists stains. The sweet spot is 7/16 inch inner diameter or 3/8 ID. The 1/2 inch by 3/4 OD stuff is hard to route in a case.
Radiators - Two or three XSPC RX 360s or 480s. (In a MM case, you can mount these easily, say two for the CPU and one for the GPUs)
Fans -Scythe S-Flex E models (less electronic squeal than the highly touted Gentle Typhoons)
Reservoirs - Regular tube reservoir mounted internally. Do not purchase a Koolance 452 or 402 dual reservoir unless you which to harm yourself mentally.

If you really like low temps and low noise, run the cpu on one loop and the gpus on another loop with fans set at about 1000 rpms. Very cool and very quiet.

[defect9]

I guess I just need to shop around at Performance-Pcs or FrozenCpu to get an idea of what's "high end" and what I really need for my specific needs. There's so much stuff on the market it's hard to sort out. I think I just need to familiarize myself with the various brands and terminology.

you'd be better off looking at tests and comparisons instead of looking at manufacturer numbers.

http://skinneelabs.com/
http://martinsliquidlab.org/
the stickies

spend a couple of weeks digging in and asking questions before buying anything.

[NaeKuh]

I can make your "no limit" turn into OMFG WTF NO WAY!?!?!?!? in a matter of seconds., just from bitspower fittings.

its best you set a budget on lc... typically if u want a monster setup, u should start at 700 dollars just for the LC part.

[Panthols]

Hmmm, extreme if money was no object...
3 loops, cpu, gpu's and board/ram
Lets go for a tested pump with redundancy - 6 DDC Pumps with dual tops - $600
Lets go with shiny res's - 3 FrozenQ Helix res's (different colors for each loop) - $300
Hmm, a 4 x 120 rad for each loop - 3 XSPC RX480's - $390
CPU block of choice - $80
Ram block - $70
Mb block - $120+
Full cover GPU blocks, SLI/Crossfire right? - $300+
12 san ace fans - $240+

Okay, we're up to $2100... since you have such an extreme setup, you'll probably want to get some nice bitspower fittings and some other bling, so lets put a $500+ budget for fittings, tubing and dye/fluid (if you don't want distilled + silver)

We can probably find some more cool stuff if money really isn't an object....

[NaeKuh]

Hmmm, extreme if money was no object...
3 loops, cpu, gpu's and board/ram
Lets go for a tested pump with redundancy - 6 DDC Pumps with dual tops - $600
Lets go with shiny res's - 3 FrozenQ Helix res's (different colors for each loop) - $300
Hmm, a 4 x 120 rad for each loop - 3 XSPC RX480's - $390
CPU block of choice - $80
Ram block - $70
Mb block - $120+
Full cover GPU blocks, SLI/Crossfire right? - $300+
12 san ace fans - $240+

lulz.... are u reading one of the monster lc project worklogs?

or is this your dream setup?

[Panthols]

lulz.... are u reading one of the monster lc project worklogs?

or is this your dream setup?

Nah, that was just something I figured would well for him if he had an unlimited budget...

My planned setup is something much more extravagant but I haven't had the time. Maybe when I finish med school and residency I'll consider actually building it, but who knows how things will be in 6 years. For now it's just throwing everything into my old Mountain Mods cube (origional w/ non-removable front and back) and doing quick and dirty installs. I just don't want to drop that kind of money on the system I want when I'll be able to spend one or two hours a week messing with it.

[neonatas]

Pffft i laugh at 2100 dollars for cooling, if watercooling is your main hobby you will just like me, spend alot more on it.

Actually, your question should be something else. If the money isnt a problem. Where can i find somebody who can advise me, mod for me and build for me the ultimate rig?

Or if you want to do it yourself, just start buying and testing and enjoy the full glory of getting what you want and spend loads of money (road i took, its fun)

ps.: dont forget to buy all the tools required for making such a case! You will spend alot more on this then on your actual cooling or pc in the long run
ps2.: If you take the long ass road, which is the fun road if this is your hobby, it will take years to find what you want. Nobody can give you a list on a forum and make you happy with it. The choise in IT is always 0 or 1. Pick one and have fun!

[jdb2]

Hmmm, extreme if money was no object...
3 loops, cpu, gpu's and board/ram
Lets go for a tested pump with redundancy - 6 DDC Pumps with dual tops - $600
Lets go with shiny res's - 3 FrozenQ Helix res's (different colors for each loop) - $300
Hmm, a 4 x 120 rad for each loop - 3 XSPC RX480's - $390
CPU block of choice - $80
Ram block - $70
Mb block - $120+
Full cover GPU blocks, SLI/Crossfire right? - $300+
12 san ace fans - $240+

Okay, we're up to $2100... since you have such an extreme setup, you'll probably want to get some nice bitspower fittings and some other bling, so lets put a $500+ budget for fittings, tubing and dye/fluid (if you don't want distilled + silver)

We can probably find some more cool stuff if money really isn't an object....

OK. Well, that's a little too extreme for me :P . I should have phrased this post as a hypothetical question because I plan on building in steps in hopes of reaching my "ultimate" goal.

I've already decided on a case, namely a Mountain Mods Extended Ascension. I want the radiator(s) to fit at the top of the case so I need advice as whether to purchase a MO-RA3, 3x XSPC RX360s, or 3x Aqua Computer Airplex triples.
I haven't seen a review with all three radiators together which is why I'm asking.

I'd be getting a Swiftech Apogee HD waterblock for the cpu -- I'm not dealing with the video cards or MB/ram at first.

For the pump, I was going to go for a high end Eheim or derivative because of the high flow rates. ( eg. 1200 l/h ) But the Laing DDC pumps are "frictionless" so would it be better to use one of those due to the noise?


Right now, I'm looking at perhaps a $1000 budget with the aim of sustaining a 5+GHz overclock on my CPU. ( FX-8150 ) Do you have any other suggestions relating to the above?


Thanks,

jdb2

[jdb2]

Pffft i laugh at 2100 dollars for cooling, if watercooling is your main hobby you will just like me, spend alot more on it.

Actually, your question should be something else. If the money isnt a problem. Where can i find somebody who can advise me, mod for me and build for me the ultimate rig?

Or if you want to do it yourself, just start buying and testing and enjoy the full glory of getting what you want and spend loads of money (road i took, its fun)

ps.: dont forget to buy all the tools required for making such a case! You will spend alot more on this then on your actual cooling or pc in the long run
ps2.: If you take the long ass road, which is the fun road if this is your hobby, it will take years to find what you want. Nobody can give you a list on a forum and make you happy with it. The choise in IT is always 0 or 1. Pick one and have fun!

The problem is that I'm a perfectionist. Up to now I've been able to determine, with great confidence, what components are the "best" or at least the "best for me/my-budget." With water cooling there's so much to choose from that I'm suffering from a kind of mental overload. Hence the reason for my original impulse driven post.

jdb2

[jdb2]

Maybe I should just stick with my current air cooling setup. I'm in over my head. Oh well. :/

jdb2

[Panthols]

Don't worry about being in over your head, that's what the forums are for. Just be a little specific about your budget next time . I'd recommend going with a basic setup and expanding from there.

If you start with a CPU only loop, just go with one 120 x 3 radiator for now and plan to possibly expand from there later. There will be a decent investment at first but it will allow you to get your feet wet (hopefully not literally) and decide if you really want to pursue this hobby.

Swiftech Apogee HD - $75
Swiftech MCR320 - $65
EK DDC Pump top with res & pump - $145
15' Masterkleer tubing - $10
Basic fittings (non-compression) - $20
3 Yate Loon 120mm fans - $15

Total - $330

You will get great temps with almost no noise. This won't look as amazing as some of the builds you see but it is a good starting point. As far as pumps go, it's pressure over flow as long as you stay over 1 gpm, this is why the Eheim pumps aren't too common anymore. Just start off small and build on that, if you encounter any problems there are tons of great people here to help. Just remember to have fun with it!

Edit: The thing to remember, is a lot of people here might say which rad is best or which cpu block, but your looking at most 1-2c difference between blocks. Rads don't really matter as long as you don't go beyond their cooling capacity and everything else is just personal preference. So look around, read the stickies and consider our advice, but if you can't decide on a component just pick which one you think looks best. If you take a build that was only the best performing components vs the best looking, you'd be lucky to find a 3 - 4c difference.

[Waterlogged]

Maybe I should just stick with my current air cooling setup. I'm in over my head. Oh well. :/

jdb2

Every single one us felt very similar to how you do now when we started as well, stick with it and it'll get easier with time, patience and research.

[defect9]

yeah, like waterlogged says, we all been there. It took me 2 years of off-and-on research before I was willing to take the plunge.

[bds71]

personally, i like the Swiftech MCP 35x pump. for a CPU only loop, it's got more than enough pressure/flow - and it even comes with a decent res/top as well as being PWM. just my 2cp.

as far as being in over your head - sometimes you just gotta take that leap into the deep end, and learn to swim as you go. eventually, you'll figure out for yourself what you want and how you want to get there.

[Alexandr0s]

lulz.... are u reading one of the monster lc project worklogs?

or is this your dream setup?

I think he's reading the specs of one of your systems?

[Eeeaugheeeaugh!]

So, if money is no object and price has no limit, what would you guys recommend for the ultimate water cooling component setup?

So....I'll just say it: If money is no object, what the heck are you doing with an 8150? And why advertise you have gobs of money while seeking help from a community populated with people who've worked very hard on their passions...many of whom are repressed into frugality by this nasty little recession we're in?

My point? I think you'll get more attention on this site without flashing your cash around...this isn't a strip club after all (insert club music unn-shh-unn-shh). I can bench press 400+ lbs, but I don't go :banana::banana::banana:ging around in a "smedium" t-shirt with flashing neon statistics, rubbing people's noses in it. A little modesty will take you much farther here IMO.

Now...ahem...if what you say is true, here's my recommendation:

1. Case: You need a big one. MM makes some killer cases, but the options can be a bit overwhelming to a noob. Have you seen the The Little Devil LD PC-V8 HPTX? It is huge, attractive, and can accommodate your needs, all while containing 3 very large radiators. I have some experience with this one. The red is more a of a maroon color / not the Crayola red of your ASUS components...so I'd stick to black of I were you. If you get the case first, it will be much easier to see what it is that you need. Get your hardware mounted, start measuring / planning. There is only so much you can prospect from the website's pictures.

2. Your 8150 (I'm an AMD fan BTW) is currently getting its rear end handed to it by even the i52500k. Not a good choice if money is no object. If the $ is there, get either the Intel i7-3960x, or the i7-3930k (Both are futureproof with the LGA 2011 socket / Ivy Bridge ready along with pcie 3.0 among other bleeding edge developments). Of course, there is always the EVGA SR-2...if you want to run dual CPUs...this is all up to you.

3. Next step...figure out which motherboard supports your needs, but ensure someone is making waterblocks for it. Check EK's website...they announce manufacturing plans from time to time.

4. Your PSU needs some beef...and it had better be a really good quality one...your 1K is not up to the task....recommend 1300w minimum.

5. GFX Cards: Same as the motherboard, see if there are waterblocks available for them. If I were you, I'd wait for the pcie 3.0 AMD 7xxx or Nvidia 6xx to hit retail first. Since $ is no object...go quad SLI with whichever card is the most expensive. If you're BSing or are actually economically minded, do your research first and check to see how they scale. For instance...there are plenty of situations where 3x GTX 580s are actually detrimental to performance. Tri SLI is a waste of $. Up to you.

6. Pumps, fittings, radiators, tubing, reservior, fan & pump controller: This is where you can go absolutely nuts with the options out there. There is NO definitive path here...you must choose what you want. Look at it as being fun, but realize there are many, MANY options. For you, I'd run a single loop with two 655 pumps for redundancy. For your fittings & tubing , the appearance is whatever you want, but the best flow / volume is going to be (Tubing) 1/2" ID 3/4" OD, and (Fittings) G 1/4. You can use either barbed fittings or compression fittings...the compressions are by far the most expensive and best-looking. When you order a compression fitting, make sure it is for your 1/2" ID / 3/4" OD tubing. I personally cut through the BS and use only Tygon lab tubing (Get around 20 feet or so).

7. I'm out of time...When you get everything together, post a worklog and keep soliciting people for help. Just be sure to return the favor once you've harvested some free hard-earned knowledge from this place.

Good luck, and happy spending

Josh

[NaeKuh]

yeah... op... the moment u came in with money is no object, that tend to set yourself up for a bullzeye...

typically unless u have post count like mine... and u known to splurg big time... a project which says money is no limit is tended to get hit by the fire squad.

OP as i have said.. we can and will scare ya on the price for a topic header like this... the best thing to do is set a finite budget... assume u may exceed it by 25%... that is typically a good point....

[Nigel]

25%? Come on, most of us have gone to 100%+ of our original budgets. My budget was 1500 and I think I've spent that on my pump case and radiator.

[OC Maximus]

So, if money is no object and price has no limit then why go AMD?

Just sayin....

[3lfk1ng]

^hahaha. /Agree