AMD BullDozer "NaySayer" Thread

[m411b]

Figured we needed one since we still have so many NaySayers out there. Maybe if we get this started y'all will stick here and leave all the people alone who feel as though progress is being made.

Tired of folks that don't have the hardware running their mouths like they're resident experts!

Carry on..

[STEvil]

naysayer

[m411b]

naysayer

LOL! Thanks, fixed..

Just had to vent a little, sorry.

[BeepBeep2]

Here m411b, I'll start off with a quote responding to what you were angry about...
You will see that 6100 (even 8150) offers lesser or equal performance in most games while moderate performance increases in select games over Phenom II X4.

I'm not sure how you got your 100% FPS boost as the 6100 has only 33% more cores over your old CPU and each core is significantly slower.

Mind you, I just copied and pasted from the thread where it belonged...you tricked a guy into buying a new (expensive in his country) CPU in which case some of his games may run slower.

Here is a crapload of charts comparing gaming performance: not handpicked, just the gaming part of BD (6100 or 8150) reviews.
http://www.guru3d.com/article/amd-fx...ance-review/10

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...x,3043-18.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...x,3043-19.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/...x,3043-20.html

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4955/t...x8150-tested/8

http://www.techspot.com/review/452-a...us/page10.html

Even 8150 (non OC and OC) vs 1100T (non OC vs OC) in this review:
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...fx-8150/9.html
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...x-8150/10.html
http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Ha...x-8150/11.html

Why weren't we just smart and told this guy to keep his quad core?

I'll have an 8120 or 8150 as soon as they are back in stock, been saving up for one

[freeloader]

I had a Crosshair V and 8120. I sold the 8120 and went back to a 1090T. I'll wait for future versions of BD to see how AMD can tweak it for more IPC.

[BeepBeep2]

I just bought an 8150, 8120's all out of stock. Hoping to put it on LN2 this winter, but money is tight. I really only want it to play with the IMC and overclock something new.

I'll make sure to run tests between 8150 @ max OC and 1100T at 4.2

[Vicey]

I think Bulldozer looked good on paper and it's a smart design in reality too but the problem is it relies too heavily on software developers to optimise their software to get the best performance out of these processors. We have seen time and time again that this is a losing bet.

I'm a developer myself and although I try to optimise as much as I can I'm not going to optimise my software for one very specific architecture of processor. If I'm writing any optimisation it has to be beneficial to at-least 30% of the processors being sold today otherwise I'm just wasting my time.

And this is coming from someone that actually knows about Bulldozer and the changes it has made. Just think about all the developers out there that have no idea what bulldozer even is and simply don't know that some of their customers are not having the best performance possible because of what AMD is now shipping. I'd say the greater majority will be those developers.

I find it hard just to fathom in what universe AMD thought bulldozer would work in the real world. Intel whilst not really innovating core design is sticking to what works. Raise the performance of each core and only share the resources that make sense the things that don't keep as individual parts that each core has a complete copy of. If they keep doing this they will always be faster than AMD in the real world because not enough developers will be optimising for AMD's approach.

I've been an AMD fan in the past I had an A64 3200+, A64 3500+, A64 3800+ X2, A64 5000+ X2, A64 5200 X2. But Intel has been releasing hit after hit every new architecture is bringing around 10 to 22% performance increases per core and AMD while trying new innovative ideas just aren't increasing performance for the apps we already know and love. They need to go back to designing chips how they used to be in my opinion.

A healthy and competitive AMD is good for the market I don't want them failing to live up to their past reputation but something needs to change because Bulldozer isn't the golden chalice.

[Sentential]

Hey guys I got an exclusive clip of Piledriver in action, straight from dresden! Honest!

http://www.epicfail.com/2010/07/31/bulldozer-fail/

[FlanK3r]

Piledriver looks now not so "bad"...FX is not bad too, thinking more about FX performance, price etc....

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/846-...ray-v-ray.html

all test here are from practice, not integrated or syntetic benchmarks example.

[BeepBeep2]

Piledriver looks now not so "bad"...FX is not bad too, thinking more about FX performance, price etc....

http://www.hardware.fr/articles/846-...ray-v-ray.html

all test here are from practice, not integrated or syntetic benchmarks example.

While it's nice to see that 8150 can match or beat 1100T (by a margin of 10% or less) in 7-Zip, WinRAR, and x264, Bibble, you have to realize...it is on a much smaller node, has 25% more "cores", uses a slight amount more power and the die size is significantly bigger if you ignore the 32nm process...

I don't want to have to buy Bibble to convert my RAW images from my Nikon D5100 to JPEG...Nikon ViewNX does that perfectly fine for me now. (I use GIMP to edit photos, which is 30% slower on FX)... If I bought FX and it is slower in ViewNX, why should I have to switch to Bibble to get my performance back? O_o

I'm sorry to say that Fritz Chess is pretty synthetic...most of the world does not use 3dsMax, and I don't know many people that encode video all day with x264. Most photographers I know as well don't even shoot RAW like I do so the Bibble RAW convert test is pointless...

I do use 7-Zip though, I'm glad FX brings a performance benefit for that
I use FilZip for my RARs...

And gaming performance:
That's probably the 10th review I've read where gaming performance is lesser or does not give an increase over X6...sometimes losing to X4. :/
"Buy new games to solve the problem" isn't really a solution there.

Overall that review shows a 2.1% performance decrease in 3D, 9.7% increase in workstation applications. The CPU also costs ~30% more...
That isn't exactly acceptable, considering all tests but 3D utilize all cores and the majority of windows applications unfortunately do not...

[repman]

I really don't know why people speak badly about BD





http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum...or-review.html

[Zeus]

If it was for performance this FX8120 i have right now would have gone straight out of the window. See the compare charts against I7 and even I5 and there is only one conclusion: FX performance is downright pathetic.

The bright side is that this platform is fun to tweak and play with and on top of that it is pretty darn stable for 24/7 usage, even if it isn't really stable. It is much more forgiving than Phenom II.

5GHz+ is fun, if only Thuban could do that and the IMC on Bulldozer is fantastic, we've all seen what it's capable of. But who needs that much bandwidth if the cpu is not capable of utilizing all that?

Thuban on 32nm process with bulldozer IMC and two extra cores is what i would like to have seen. (I know, safe your comments)

Bottomline: If you have a 890 board and a good Thuban, stick with it.

[BeepBeep2]

If it was for performance this FX8120 i have right now would have gone straight out of the window. See the compare charts against I7 and even I5 and there is only one conclusion: FX performance is downright pathetic.

The bright side is that this platform is fun to tweak and play with and on top of that it is pretty darn stable for 24/7 usage, even if it isn't really stable. It is much more forgiving than Phenom II.

5GHz+ is fun, if only Thuban could do that and the IMC on Bulldozer is fantastic, we've all seen what it's capable of. But who needs that much bandwidth if the cpu is not capable of utilizing all that?

Thuban on 32nm process with bulldozer IMC and two extra cores is what i would like to have seen. (I know, safe your comments)

Bottomline: If you have a 890 board and a good Thuban, stick with it.

Woah, that's what I said...

I got attacked in PM, so watch out

Back to charts in the post above yours...
8150 running at 3.6, 2500/2600K's running at 3.3/3.4...

Think about when you OC both to 4.8 or so.

[FlanK3r]

Beep: of course, its about point of view. 3DsMax is one of the most used 3D software. I confess, I have 3Ds MAX cracked version. But still are here people, who used legacy 3DsMAX products. Of course, Intel CPUs are ussually better, but for more cost. Me, as end-user dont care much die size (again, in size to size is Zambezi not much effective). For you is not much good upgrade to FX 81xx. But for some users is it good choice, depends at actually PC or what this users do at FX.

[mR Yellow]

Now i'm wondering if i should get the 8120 or rather get a 1100T or 1090T. Prices are almost the same here in SA. Give or take a $10.

[FlanK3r]

take 8120...the best choice will be still waiitng 2 months and than take 8120...U will see some difference in power consumption and OC...

[mR Yellow]

take 8120...the best choice will be still waiitng 2 months and than take 8120...U will see some difference in power consumption and OC...

Yup, i'm gonna go for the 8120 (1055T will go to my wife) and have some fun. I can't wait for 2 months for a new stepping...it might even take longer than that.
My H100 arrived today. Hopefully the CPUs will be in on Friday

[EniGmA1987]

Figured we needed one since we still have so many NaySayers out there. Maybe if we get this started y'all will stick here and leave all the people alone who feel as though progress is being made.

Tired of folks that don't have the hardware running their mouths like they're resident experts!

Carry on..

*points to sig*

Do you REALLY think the Bulldozer processors are good? Cause I have one and even I dont think so. I have no delusions about that, I bought it for fun overclocking and learning to tweak the new architecture. My old 2600k was MUCH better in performance.

[keithlm]

I'm a developer myself and although I try to optimise as much as I can I'm not going to optimise my software for one very specific architecture of processor.

Most developers allow the compiler to do almost all optimization; nobody really optimizes for specific hardware except for operating system developers. (Especially since most applications aren't allowed to touch the raw hardware level and the developer must go through the OS.)

[Vicey]

Most developers allow the compiler to do almost all optimization; nobody really optimizes for specific hardware except for operating system developers. (Especially since most applications aren't allowed to touch the raw hardware level and the developer must go through the OS.)

Whilst I would agree with you to a point there are a lot of optimisations the developer can do to help with this architecture. I write virtualization software for Servers and Workstations so I have the low level access required to optimise for specific processors but again I wouldn't waste time doing that for Bulldozer unless a significant amount of processors entered the market.

But really the point I was getting at is you can't expect the developer to do the work. It's a similar situation to the playstation 3 they put a lot of SPE units in the processor and developers didn't really know how to write code to get the best performance out of it and they still don't. It's just not easy compared to what we already know and the move from single threaded serial applications to massively multithreaded parallel software was also a big shift and a wake up call for a lot of developers who again dragged their feet and still are in the majority of cases.

AMD bet on the wrong horse thinking someone else would do the leg work to make their architecture shine. That's my opinion.

[halfwaythere]

Got myself a Zosma on the way. Best AMD deal by far.

Not sure if you guys read the news but I'm not sure piledriver will see the light of retail shops.

[mR Yellow]

Got myself a Zosma on the way. Best AMD deal by far.

Not sure if you guys read the news but I'm not sure piledriver will see the light of retail shops.

I don't know how much truth there is in this.

[EniGmA1987]

Piledriver is supposed to be only a few more months out, so it would be an incredibly stupid move to not only throw away your new architecture but also the nearly finished follow up on that. I know the new CEO actually is an idiot, but he has to at least understand some business sense right?

[Chrono Detector]

I have no more hope in AMD when it comes to high end CPU's, Bulldozer is an epic failure of a CPU its not even funny. What bothers me the most that it can't keep up with Intel's current high end offerings and it consumes more power which was the breaking point. Was so looking forward to the FX-8150 and even built a 990FX, guess I'll be keeping my 955 for a while.

And WTF is with the FX-4100 and FX-6100? They are even slower than the 965 and 1100T which is worse.

[trans am]

I had a lot of hope for this I have a 990FXA-UD7 and 8120 and 16gb gskill ripjawsz 2133 kit, 4 x M4 in raid0 on 9260-4i controller HD 6950 flashed to 6970 and I bought this for ln2 session but as I have been playing on air and playing the only games I play/ bf2 project reality and edit vids with sony vegas. for the most part I am either playing games or video editing. I was on xeon 3540 @ 4ghz and asus sabertooth x58. this has been a huge step backwards. Even with a higher clockspeed, 8 cores, all the ram and my raid set. I used to get 99 or more fps in PR. game. now its like 60 fps. the vids take twice as long to render. the whole thing makes me want to sell it all on ebay while I can still get something for it.
I am seriously considering going back to the xeon x58 rig. I think the final straw was the video rendering. I used to make these vids so fast and I redid my array and did secure erase on each drive its definitely not that. even my games fps have suffered drastically. I really gave bulldozer a chance and had high hopes but man Ive been using it as my 24/7 rig for the last month and Ive had enough. Its been a step backwards for me. I bought it to play with ln2 but I think I should just sell it while its not clogged with conformal spray and eraser and grease. If anyone wants a deal on the 8120 and 990FXA-ud7 pm me asap. paid $235 for the board and 220 for the 8120. $455 total. its all yours for $375. lemme know. I have all the boxes and crap. I have heat, ebay feedback, longtime xs member. its less than a month old. lemme know.