Need some help with ideas

[Dave_Sz]

Uh huh.
It's a normal auto, not a DSG(like in the gti), therefore you would almost never use it as the delay between pulling the paddle and anything happening is too long.
I have an old hyundai with the + and - down by the shifter. I've used it maybe a dozen times int he 10 years the car has been int he family. I also have these things in my FIT. I only use them before cornering or stopping, but that's cause I have a habit of downshifting in the wrx. If the paddles weren't there, I wouldn't downshift at all. So it isn't making anything easier or more convenient or safer. It is a feature added on for a sporty feel that is not provided. In my opinion, it is a huge gimmick.
Like I said, not a DSG type box that is rather instant. This is just a crap auto with a gimmicky paddle shift system so that people who don't know better, think this is the same as a gti/audi/gt-r box.
It seems to be working quite well for them

[Judaeus Apella]

The fact that it isn't a DSG is a good thing. DSG's are junk.

[zanzabar]

Uh huh.
It's a normal auto, not a DSG(like in the gti), therefore you would almost never use it as the delay between pulling the paddle and anything happening is too long.
I have an old hyundai with the + and - down by the shifter. I've used it maybe a dozen times int he 10 years the car has been int he family. I also have these things in my FIT. I only use them before cornering or stopping, but that's cause I have a habit of downshifting in the wrx. If the paddles weren't there, I wouldn't downshift at all. So it isn't making anything easier or more convenient or safer. It is a feature added on for a sporty feel that is not provided. In my opinion, it is a huge gimmick.
Like I said, not a DSG type box that is rather instant. This is just a crap auto with a gimmicky paddle shift system so that people who don't know better, think this is the same as a gti/audi/gt-r box.
It seems to be working quite well for them

my dad has a fit S and that one dose not do anything unless u put it in sport mode and then its not great but it dose hold the gear or will let u down shift before u stomped the gas so it wont downshift affter u wanted to go. unless u are racing its not a big deal as u would only want it to hold the gear and you dont normally go from high to low speed back to high so its only used if u want to have fun in a canyon or to downshift when passing.

but i do agree that a sequential box is better and they shift much quicker/smoother, but if u had a turbo then u would most likely use the paddle or sport shift auto more if u wanted to tool around as its would make a larger difference. and i like my nissan and f150 that if u put in 1/2 it locks up the torque converter and keeps were u put it so if u want to have fun and keep the revs up with a 4 speed auto and 1/2/d/od u can control it quite well even though its not as good as a manual or sequential its still good enough when compared to something like the civic with no lock up and that dose not stay in the gear u put it in.

[Dave_Sz]

The fact that it isn't a DSG is a good thing. DSG's are junk.

Just wow.

my dad has a fit S and that one dose not do anything unless u put it in sport mode and then its not great but it dose hold the gear or will let u down shift before u stomped the gas so it wont downshift affter u wanted to go. unless u are racing its not a big deal as u would only want it to hold the gear and you dont normally go from high to low speed back to high so its only used if u want to have fun in a canyon or to downshift when passing.

You don't need to be in S to use the paddles in the FIT, if that's what you were saying. They work in D. In S the trans does not shift itself therefore you need to shift all gears.

[zanzabar]

You don't need to be in S to use the paddles in the FIT, if that's what you were saying. They work in D. In S the trans does not shift itself therefore you need to shift all gears.

thats what i meant, in d it stays were u put it for like 20s then goes back, i guess thats for street use but i find it annoying if i put it down i wanted it there.

[Judaeus Apella]

Ugh... nevermind. The stupid VW club gave me bad info.

[zanzabar]

Dude, they ARE junk. They're plagued with all kinds of problems and they die earlier than other competing transmissions. When ever I see a used one, I see a tombstone hanging over the transmission, because you have no idea how hard they drove it. If you drive it the way its supposed to be driven it makes its lifespan even shorter.

its not as a bad a 2 speed CVT, and for the most part u dont see many dead traditional auto transmissions that get proper maintenance (fluid/filter changes, and checks on the clutch disks), its like people who dont like ford trucks since the trans died in theirs, but then u ask them what mileage they got the fluid and filter changed and they go i didnt why would i. (it needs to be changed at 60-80k)

[Judaeus Apella]

Don't take my word for it, take a look at all the people who've been screwed over by that VW's "ingenious" transmission --> http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...G+problem&aq=f

[zanzabar]

Don't take my word for it, take a look at all the people who've been screwed over by that VW's "ingenious" transmission --> http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...G+problem&aq=f

thats a double clutch manual not an auto, it just has auto mode from the computer, also its a VW something has to wrong with it, and its the double clutch not the trans)

i was talking about cars like the fit, focus, ext. that use an auto (planetary gears, clutch pack and torque converter) that use the computer/hydraulic control board to set what planetary gear set gets engaged. it seams that since the those are controlled anyways u are just selecting were it goes instead of the computer then the computer dose it for u so i dont see how that would shorten the life.

and while we on a trans discussion, do cvt still die at like 100k miles, or has going multi cvt fixed that.

edit, ford uses a double clutch now in the focus/fiesta i wounder if it will have the problems that VW has.

[Judaeus Apella]

thats a double clutch manual not an auto, it just has auto mode from the computer, also its a VW something has to wrong with it, and its the double clutch not the trans)

i was talking about cars like the fit, focus, ext. that use an auto (planetary gears, clutch pack and torque converter) that use the computer/hydraulic control board to set what planetary gear set gets engaged. it seams that since the those are controlled anyways u are just selecting were it goes instead of the computer then the computer dose it for u so i dont see how that would shorten the life.

and while we on a trans discussion, do cvt still die at like 100k miles, or has going multi cvt fixed that.

edit, ford uses a double clutch now in the focus/fiesta i wounder if it will have the problems that VW has.

Wait... that doesn't make any sense. I told this group of people in the VW club that I was looking at GTi's with automatic transmission, and they warned me about the DSG. I told them it was an automatic, not a manual. I'm confused. Anyway, they did insist that DSG's start to go bad much earlier than other transmissions. Please tell me that's at least true. They were pretty insistent about that. Their final advice was to wait a few generations and see if DSG improves.

I'm sorry, I thought these guys were supposed to be a reliable source of VW information. I'm really disappointed. Seems like you just can't trust anyone to give you reliable information on anything these days.

Which VW trans? The DSG auto or the DSG manual?

[zanzabar]

the DSG is double clutch sequential manual,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Shift_Gearbox

if u are a purist its an auto since it has no clutch pedal, if u are an engineer its a manual since it has no torque converter or planetary gears. form what i can get form wiki and the VW site, they have 4 trans options, they have a manual with clutch 6 speed, dsg with a manual style shifter (euro only?), a 6 speed dsg with an automatic style shifter (sold as an auto), and a 7 speed dsg (euro only.)

but for the paddles, u can have a double clutch sequential or a torque converter and planetary gears. if its a normal torque converter and planetary gears the paddles dont make a difference on lifespan, the lifespan is all about maintenance.

[TheGoat Eater]

I think I am now going to get a used car in the $16,000 or under as I want to save a bit of money... I might be looking to get a townhome or place of my own soon so that extra money will help.

[Petra]

Not meaning to pick on you Zanz, but I have a few minor objections/comments to toss in...

the miata dose not have a rotery its an mx not an rx, it gets poor milage since its got an older trans so its 5 speed and has a hot gear in the back. but then it gets like 25 so its well withing what he wants. for the miata, if u dont get the mazda speed its underpowered and since if u want to tune one u want a 1st gen as they are alot lighter and have less electronics and just whats needed for good fuel injection so u can tune them. also being an OBD1 car the originals can run whatever manifold or exhaust (with a cat) u want without getting smog stickers for each part design like u have to for obd2 cars.

Both the 1.6L and 1.8L Miatas get reasonably good fuel economy, depending on how you drive them--28-35MPG on the freeway is entirely attainable without resorting to any of that hypermiling nonsense. The NA Miata (so, anything from 1997 and earlier) came equipt with a 5-speed manual and the NB Miata (1999-2005, with a refresh in 2001... that's right, there was no MY 1998 Miata in the US) came with either a 5-speed manual or the, somewhat uncommon, optional close-ratio 6-speed manual (yes, I'm ignoring all of the torque converter coupled planetary gear auto trans options... because you just don't buy a Miata with a slushbox). I don't think it's really fair to call the Miata underpowered (unless you're talking about the '90-'93 1.6L models), since the 1.8L engine produces enough power to do what the car was meant to do: tear up tight, twisty roads. That said, the Miata is not a fast car. At all. However, the way in which the car was designed and the way it drives causes it to feel faster than it is. To me, the Miata stands as an excellent example of a car which doesn't need a ton of horsepower to be ridiculously fun.

For tuning or racing (Spec Miata), the '99 and [IIRC] '00 NBs are what you want to go with now... they're essentially the same car as the '94-'97 NA (the NB was more of a refresh than a new model, from my point of view), a little bit heavier, but produce more power. There are also a lot of FI options for the '99... with some of the SC setups getting pretty bonkers. The '94-'97 NA is still a solid choice, especially considering how cheap they are (with my preference being the '96 & '97 model years). The '01+ NBs don't have much in the way of aftermarket support right now, as one of the changes that came with the '01 refresh was a new head on the 1.8L engine that incorporated variable valve timing on the intake cam.

Anyway, it's fair to say that the NA & NB Miata are really fun cars to drive and are really cheap to own. I don't particularly like the NC all that much, but it's mostly due to poor driver ergonomics... which seems odd, given that I'm like 5'10" & 125lb. (makes me wonder who they were designing that car for). Having driven one, the RX-8 is also tons of fun to drive (despite being dubbed "the torqueless wonder") but its fuel economy is terrible, the interior is full of cheap-feeling plastics, and, like the Miata, has a rather cramped interior.

Full disclosure: After getting a week worth of back-to-back comparison driving time, I ended up selling my BMW M Roadster at the end of 2010 and replacing it with a 2001 Torsen LSD-equipped 6-speed Miata.

the DSG is double clutch sequential manual,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Shift_Gearbox

if u are a purist its an auto since it has no clutch pedal, if u are an engineer its a manual since it has no torque converter or planetary gears.

My argument here is over the usage of the term "manual" ... To me, a manual transmission is one where the physical (manual) input from the operator is what causes the device to function. In other words, the manual operation of the clutch pedal results in the coupling/decoupling of the clutch via direct cable or hydraulic link and the physical input of the user on the gear selector, via solid or cable linkage, results in direct manipulation of the transmission's selector forks. In short, the device is essentially powered by you (the operator). A true mechanically actuated sequential gearbox (shift lever connected to ratchet mechanism, ratchet mechanism turns selector drum, selector drum manipulates selector forks) would also classify as a form of manual transmission since the device is powered by the user.

Now, a DSG (or any electronically controlled dual clutch sequential gearbox) which allows for user input would classify as a form of semi-automatic transmission. If there is no option for user input, then said DSG is an automatic transmission regardless of its internal workings--the distinction at this point comes down to software and the presence of the appropriate user manipulatable switches. Granted, the auto industry coined the term manumatic to differentiate user controllable torque converter/planetary gear transmissions from user controllable semi-automatic transmissions. It's all a semantics clusterf**k, so we may as well just identify them based on their inner workings (e.g. manual, electronically controlled dual clutch sequential, electronically controlled single clutch sequential, mechanical sequential (there are pneumatically & hydraulically actuated subsets of this which fall into the semi-auto category which are used in racing, but I'm omitting them), CVT, torque converter/planetary gear, etc.).

Anyway... back on topic:

Someone mentioned the Genesis Coupe (having driven the early production base 2.0T torque converter/planetary gear version, 2.0T manual Track version, and 3.8 manual Track version), I'd say it's a solid car and Hyundai has addressed some of my interior materials complaints (GAH! The original stippled leather steering wheel was horrible!) with mid-model updates... However, the 2.0T engine feels like it has a rather narrow powerband, doesn't have much "go" (the GC isn't exactly a light car), and doesn't seem to offer much in the way of engine breaking. The 3.8L V6, on the other hand, has plenty of go-juice... but this brings me to my biggest problem with the GC: it doesn't feel all that quick or sporty unless you're thrashing it. When you're just driving the GC around town, you may as well be driving a Camry or Accord--it doesn't start to shine until you cross into "I really shouldn't be doing this on the street" territory (that quality does lend it to being more comfortable than a Miata or my old M Roadster, though). I do applaud Hyundai for introducing the 2.0T and 3.8 R-Spec models, though, because the base suspension and brakes are worthless and the Track Pack adds a bunch of junk I wouldn't want for more money than I would spend. The R-Spec versions give you the meaningful goodies from the Track models without all the extra crap and do so at a sane price.

As dirty as I feel suggesting it, the newer 305HP V6 Mustangs with LSD aren't crap. Moving on...

The WRX, STi, and Evo have already been mentioned and are good suggestions... but you may also want to consider the Lancer Ralliart (think of it as a baby Evo that's also available in an optional hatchback configuration...Mitsu's WRX, if you will). The FR-S is intriguing, since it has a CD & power to weight ratio that are better than a Miata and is under 3000lbs...but the pricing that has been announced seems high and, since it's not out yet, I have no experience with it. The BRZ is going to be expensive (as is its STi variant). The '06/'07 350Z & G35 ought to fall into that $16k budget...I've never driven one, though (my wife has, she liked it, and she has clocked more track time than I have). I could suggest some used BMWs, but I'm not going to (having dealt with an E30, the E90 that I leased for a few years, and my old E36/7 M Roadster... I'm conflicted when it comes to recommending BMW). Hmm... I know there are more suggestions I could make, but they're not coming to me for some reason.

[TheGoat Eater]

Now I am thinking I will get an older car that can be a project and put some money into to tune and modify to my needs, possibly something like a Subaru Legacy GT or older RS and tune it and modify the suspension to a more rally type as opposed to a low slung road car. I also am thinking that the chysler crossfire SRT6 is a big contender on my list, I would likely strip the interior, replace the seats and beef up the supercharger and engine. I would likely go this route as I see that it would be a bit more fun to have my options on it as opposed to spending all my money on something I would have to leave plain for a while. The car will also likely be a summer car as I will keep the Vue in the fallout shelter at the family business ( 700 person massive basement warehouse from the cold war era that is drive in )

[jaguarking11]

The 2011+ mustangs are a world different from what you would expect. I owned an 07GT with the 4.6L 3v engine. With a tune it made around 300hp to the ground and weight was around 3370lb. Not bad. It was not a perfect car but definitely a drivers car. The solid rear, I don't care what anyone says, it works. It works very well. The panhard system does not work well though. So my 07 was upgraded with a watts link. That settled the car down so much no one could even guess it was a solid axle out back. I pushed the car to ridiculous speeds, spend some time at the track, it never misbehaved and was actualy a very forgiving and predictable car. It was a wonderful car. It felt big when needed but drove like a small car and was very maneuverable. After a few choice mods, it was quicker than most in the twisties. At the track I was paired with m3's and corvettes, it more than kept up with those cars.

Now I own a 2012 5.0L Gt version. I have to say out the box, the car is wonderful, it almost felt like ford studied my old car and made my old modifications standard equipment. The chassis tuning is very evident. Its more comfortable than my 07, but handles just as well. They have retuned the spring rate and the panhard geometry it seems, have not done any track time yet but it definitely feels very good. The control arms are way stiffer, the chasis is also much stiffer. It does not creak, neither did the old one to be honest. Its definitely a solid car.

My old one I kept for 5 years, I would still have it if I didn't get t-boned by an idiot. I can say the car is definitely safe. I was hit on the side at over 50mph, not a scratch, nor a bruise or even wiplash. It held its value rather well. I was given 21k for it after 5 years of ownership, I paid 26.4K for it new. Now I will be the first to admit that my recommendations should be taken lightly as this particular car fits my personality and needs very well, in my book its not fair to other makes and models to compare it to anything in its class. The genesis coupe, would not hold a candle to it in my book, neither would the 370z or anything within 20k of the mustang. However your needs and wants may be different.

[zanzabar]

what about a 1 series M or an sti, did u have a chance to try those and how would u rate those in comparison. since u tuned the 07 do u have somehting like a hyperchips (or other programer) on hand and if so dose using that make an noticeable difference in performance and mileage.

and do u have pic of the t-bone.

[Judaeus Apella]

I love the older Audi Quattros and BMW's. Beautiful cars. (Especially when they're modified for track and have a full body kit! )

For me, this is pretty much car porn.... well except for the lazy eye. haha

[StickyRICE]

What about some older M series cars. e39 m5 and e36 m3 would be fun cars for sure.

[zanzabar]

What about some older M series cars. e39 m5 and e36 m3 would be fun cars for sure.

dosnt the e46 330 make like 10 HP less and they go for around 7-8k were the late 90's m3 is 9-10k. i think that even the 330xi with the sports package costs less than the e36m3 if u can find one.

[StickyRICE]

dosnt the e46 330 make like 10 HP less and they go for around 7-8k were the late 90's m3 is 9-10k. i think that even the 330xi with the sports package costs less than the e36m3 if u can find one.

Not to sure on that really, haven't kept up on bmw value lately. But the e46 seem to be some monsters with right application of boost.

[The Jesus]

What about a Challenger? Since you changed to 16 and under, you might be able to get a SE for that. If you were still at 30, I would say a used R/T for lots of fun