Help Vivi with pot design (Pics inside)

[Vivi]

Hey guys!

Just made some quick pics in my 3D program that i do 3D animation with.

Im looking for some expert pot makers to help me with this design. How to make it better / is it possible etc.

Can milling machines drill these size holes? or are they too small.

There is no scale to my drawings, but they will be Slim pots.











Thanks!

[der8auer]

Hey Vivi!

The biggest problem will be to drill such small holes deep like that. You'd need a really long drill. The best way to solve this problem would be to make the pot out of 2 parts. Copper base and Aluminium extension. Then it will be possible to machine these pots even tho it will be still not easy to drill the deep holes in the back. Rather less and bit bigger holes.

[Vivi]

kk you are right .

i want to keep costs and manufacturing time low as i will be dealing with someone who has not made pots before.

I'll redo some things then post again thanks der8auer.

[Monkey man]

Hey m8
What is the size of the copper?
Just remember that in SA we are very limited to the size of the copper we get
As far as machining goes you will need to make it in 2 parts. Cu base and ali top
The rest is pretty simple to do.
Regards deadmeat

[Vivi]

True true. Ok ok ,

il be back now with more pics :P

[Vivi]

Ok ok this is pretty standard to ryba and kingpins pots right?

I dont know how deep the holes on their slims go tho.

Is this fine?

[Monkey man]

better
i think the holes are to big, but the rest looks good
also not so deep for the holes in my opinion

[Hondacity]

middle hole can be shallow, other holes can be deep.

getting pretty

[der8auer]

Ok ok this is pretty standard to ryba and kingpins pots right?

I dont know how deep the holes on their slims go tho.

Is this fine?

It's a good way to build pots. I've also done two which are pretty similar. I just put a bigger Aluminium-extension on it for easier pouring which wouldnt be the right thing for you as you want to create slim versions. But from my experience i can say this works pretty well. You could just make the diameter of the middle hole a bit less to keep more mass.

How do you want to make your mounting?

[Rasmus66]

What cards to you want to bench with that is the first question before making a gfx pot.

Slim pots have a hard time handling the heat load from a GTX580 even if the make the kobber base thick and heavy.

The three hole design is pretty standard.

The trick is to make a heavy enough copper base about 800 grams or more if possible with 6-8 mm holes and lots of them with different depth and make the rest of the pot out of POM/acetal.

POM do not absorb the cold like copper and alu do and all the cold will therefore go in the copper base and technically to make the pot more effective.

[Vivi]

That makes allot of sense rasmus. I will use it for slim setups only. i have bigger pots for 2 way sli and single card. These will be for the times where i got 3x or 4x

So making an all copper pot not such a good idea i guess. I'll go for alu for the top part.

Guess its pretty standard now but hey if its a working design.

[Hondacity]

go deeper on the 1-3 holes ..nom nom nom

[Vivi]

deeeeepaaah

[Rasmus66]

How much does the copper base weigh

[Vivi]

i do not know rasmus :>. I'm just getting a look for the pot, proper hole layout. I have to draw the pot in it's physical dimensions

So you recommend it be around 800g? Do you recommend i make it more holes and smaller? But not so small that it can't be machined ofcourse

[Splave]

maybe its just the angle but looks like there is alot of material below the mounting area, want to make sure it wont keep the card from sitting in the slot

[Rasmus66]

i do not know rasmus :>. I'm just getting a look for the pot, proper hole layout. I have to draw the pot in it's physical dimensions

So you recommend it be around 800g? Do you recommend i make it more holes and smaller? But not so small that it can't be machined ofcourse

~800 grams of copper if you make the rest of the pot out of pom/acetal.

I have just made a simple and fast 3d sketch in inventor so you can see what i mean.





Here is the POM/acetal house.





Then just press fit the copper part in the pom and you got yourselve a pretty sweet little pot

Edit:

Assembly pictures

[chew*]

Vivi,

Ln2 reacts very very similar to water in the way that it boils, boiling = energy transfer. Creating a pot that can simulate a rolling boil commonly found in a normal pot where you boil water will give you excellent response time, increasing and decreasing mass will give you load handling and will effect response time, in a perfect world you would want a decent amount of mass tapered towards the outside with the shallowest point being the center.

Also small holes actually hinder not help, what ends up happening is you get lots of bubbles in the holes boiling which pushes the ln2 away from the base.....

One way to help get a rolling boil is to "connect the dots" etc all the holes and also create channels to the outer edge.

[Vivi]

Vivi,

Ln2 reacts very very similar to water in the way that it boils, boiling = energy transfer. Creating a pot that can simulate a rolling boil commonly found in a normal pot where you boil water will give you excellent response time, increasing and decreasing mass will give you load handling and will effect response time, in a perfect world you would want a decent amount of mass tapered towards the outside with the shallowest point being the center.

Also small holes actually hinder not help, what ends up happening is you get lots of bubbles in the holes boiling which pushes the ln2 away from the base.....

One way to help get a rolling boil is to "connect the dots" etc all the holes and also create channels to the outer edge.

thanks for the excellent advice,

yea i soon realized when i looked at one of my current pots that small deep holes are NOT the way to go. Everytime a ln2 bubble go's up from the bottom of the shaft thats time wasted where its not being cooled.

So you rate the 3 hole is the way to go? I thought about doing 2 large holes keeping the centre solid ln2 for teh mass.

@Rasmus66, i like your design but way too complicated to cut. Im going to give my work to a local guy who doesnt cut pots for a living so i want it to be really easy :P. So it be cheap

[chew*]

Vivi,

A typical heat profile resembles that of a "nuclear explosion" commonly defined as a mushroom cloud. To tame the heat you want to counteract this with whatever design you choose to go with. Gpu pots are actually preety tricky compared to cpu pots to tame this way due to gravity and ln2 wanting to boil upwards and not outwards which would be optimal since that is exactly how the heat profile is dispersed due to limited mounting options. In a perfect world the card would be laying flat and tuning a pot for that type of heat profile would be far easier.

Here's a simple example of a heat profile and a perfect world counteraction "design"



Obviously if we turn this sideways it will complicate things due to gravity.

[K404]

Hey Vivi..... less experience here but my interpretation would be to split the middle hole into two, side-by-side. The diameter should still be comfortably big enough to avoid problems with bubbles.

My thinking is that the middle of the pot needs surface area to transfer the heat, seeing as it's closest to the heatload.

As Splave pointed out, i'd keep the mounting/heat transfer area quite low down. That way, the thickness of the pot bottom can be used to transfer heat away more effectively.... it also means theres more distance between the pot and the motherboard for insulation

[Hondacity]

i see my scrutom with that pic brian...lol

[T_M]

Hmmm, I have a different take on things in this regard. Fell free to ignore or refute my concepts.

For me, I want large copper mass closest to the heat load, and empty space for cooling the copper mass away from it.
Copper is conducting the heat away from the source and does it very well.

Imagine a big block of copper with a point heat load on one side.
As that heat load rises suddenly, the immediate area of copper around that point will heat up absorbing that point load.
Copper is a very good thermal conductor so that hot area of copper will transfer the heat to the surrounding cooler areas of copper very fast and you will end up with a 3D temperature gradient in the copper from highest temp (point load) to lowest (furthest from point load).
Under transient heat load conditions (e.g. sudden heat load) i want a lot of copper around the load source to be able to transfer that load rapidly out into the surrounding copper. By putting holes/gaps in the way you are hindering that and I feel the copper closest to heat source will be warmer than it could be as a result.

The point of the holes/gaps is to increase surface area of the copper, so you can cool the copper mass as a whole.
You will stilll have a temperature gradient in the copper, but overall it is reduced than with less surface area.

I say put the holes/gaps further from the heat source and leave your copper mass at the source.

[Hondacity]

T_M

you mean like post #13?

Vivi '

since you've tried 580Lightning...i think now you know why I said you need the 3rd hole(in the middle) it eats the ln2 fast and you need surface area to recover fast from the 10c degree drop?

[T_M]

Somewhat.
I would avoid having a central hole.
Also i would make any holes nearest to load smaller and at the back of the pot.
See attached as a simple sketch.



Dimensions of holes would then be tuned to balance between mass and surface area.