Sandia-designed CPU cooler lacks fan, rotates heatsink instead

[Origin_Unknown]

+1
And to me it's loud.

In reality this thing fails on every goal. It's not quieter, it does not use less power, and with an air gap it will not cool better than what is currently available.

Only thing this project is doing is milking investment/funding dollars from tax payers. http://www.sandia.gov/ < Notice the .gov it's funded by the Department of Energy.

The high pitched whining noise is annoying. I would never put this thing in any computer. If it falls of, it will wreak havoc. And if one touches it by accident, good bye fingers and welcome blood all over your hardware.

He does say in the video that the high pitched noise is only because its got an open motor while they are testing - he then turns the motor off to demonstrate how quite it will be when the motor design / cover is finished.

[LeoAndrade]

I'm a little septical too. The energy consumption to spin the hs is much higher compared too plastic fan blades, and the method of heat transfer using air is kind of strange. We need more numbers.

[CrazyNutz]

For the sake of safety I think they should integrate this technology into the cooler.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnQwVZOrUU

/sarcasm
Guess I should have added that earlier.

[DeltZ]

For the sake of safety I think they should integrate this technology into the cooler.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esnQwVZOrUU

completely unnecessary...

a) The fins are too close together to get anything stuck in it

b) the direction of rotation will make the blades brush against you (it doesn't chop the air, it releases.

I'd happily rest my finger against the side of this heatsink while running

[phantomferrari]

completely unnecessary...

a) The fins are too close together to get anything stuck in it

b) the direction of rotation will make the blades brush against you (it doesn't chop the air, it releases.

I'd happily rest my finger against the side of this heatsink while running

i can easily see fan wires finding their way in there

[Solus Corvus]

Surely a final product would include a shroud and fan grill. If you want to keep it in place would be your choice, just as with regular fans.

But I suppose you guys are right. It's time to ditch all 12 of my SanAces because they have damaged cables and drawn blood. All passive is the only way to go.

[BeepBeep2]

Surely a final product would include a shroud and fan grill. If you want to keep it in place would be your choice, just as with regular fans.

But I suppose you guys are right. It's time to ditch all 12 of my SanAces because they have damaged cables and drawn blood. All passive is the only way to go.

Calm yo'self.

[Solus Corvus]

Calm yo'self.

Don't worry about me. Worry about all the people here that are hysterical about the possibility of body or component damage. It sounds like active air, water, dry ice, phase, peltier, and LN2/LHe cooling are out of the question if they balk at the fairly minor risk posed by a centrifugal fan.

[BeepBeep2]

Don't worry about me. Worry about all the people here that are hysterical about the possibility of body or component damage. It sounds like active air, water, dry ice, phase, peltier, and LN2/LHe cooling are out of the question if they balk at the fairly minor risk posed by a centrifugal fan.

I'm not worried about anyone. I suggested you calm down. There is no need to get so worked up about this. People will talk and say what they want. You can't stop them. You can teach them, but be straightforward and polite instead of calling them hysterical.

[Solus Corvus]

Hysterical isn't an insult, it is displaying hysteria. In other words they are displaying "behavior exhibiting overwhelming or unmanageable fear or emotional excess". This thing isn't any more dangerous than several other common cooling devices yet we have several pages worth of posts about how it's going to put your eye out and molest your dog.

[Sparky]

I just did a search of this thread and there are no references to dog molestation found

[Liam_G]

I just did a search of this thread and there are no references to dog molestation found

Sounds like we need to be more afraid of our "Bath Salts" http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...-High-on-Spice

[AUST_DeVinE]

with the minute tollorences this cooler looks like it operates with i think that balance is going to be their biggest problem. uneven dust build up on the fins would cause it wobble.

in saying that im really interested to see the finished product and i can bet their will be some sort of housing that holds it all into place i mean come on who lays a motherboard flat these days its all standing up.

i for one would like to see the test of adding a foreign object like a moth go into the cooler while its opetating

[Aberration]

Because of newton's first law.

It would only consume extra power while accelerating the heatsink to speed, and that is a very short period of time. Once in motion the motor only has to counteract the fluid drag on the blades and base.

I am not sure how accurate this is. Does it take less energy to turn big tires or small tires? All economy cars have really small tires. Intuitively I would think the forces acting on the heat sink spinning would be greater than that of a normal fan. This thing will have more blades, and more surface area for drag to work on.

Maybe I missed it, but I think one of the keys in this design is the air bearing. I wonder if it is the same type of air bearings I work with. We float really heavy translation stages on a cushion of 6um air, but we also use vacuum to control the gap. If this is what they are meaning by air bearing, then they are reducing the drag on the base. But they will need a source of pressurized air for the bearing.

[Kallenator]

I am not sure how accurate this is. Does it take less energy to turn big tires or small tires? All economy cars have really small tires. Intuitively I would think the forces acting on the heat sink spinning would be greater than that of a normal fan. This thing will have more blades, and more surface area for drag to work on.

Economy cars often have smaller tires because:
1. Mass and top speed are lower than most "normal" sized cars. <- Dimensions calculated to give the highest stability at higher speeds with a given mass.
2. Start/stop motion like driving through constant red/green and even friction may come in to play as well. <- Typical economy stand point for most cars. Higher air pressure, lighter alloy wheels and overall less friction between rubber and road.

Let's say we have a large wheel and a small wheel, where the larger wheel has twice the mass of the smaller wheel, but the friction in both of the wheel's bearing is the same. In vacuum we would then part an equal impulse to each wheel. The wheel with lower mass while be accelerated to a higher velocity than the heavier wheel. However, given no air resistance and the same friction they should stop at the same time, right?


The power consumption of the impeller looks high, I think we all can agree to that. However, exactly why it is so high puzzles me, and I for one really doubt it's because of the mass or the air bearing for that matter. The reason for this is I could not find any CFM measurement in the white paper, what if it just cycles much more air than what a generic fan would? :S

I don't see much talk about it's size relative to what the white paper says about it's performance***, it does not look much larger than the slimmest Intel stock fan. However compared to the Intel RCBF7-1156 DHA-A.

RCBF7-1156 DHA-A @ 3000RPM = ~0.340 c/w
Sandia @ 3000RPM = ~0.280 c/w***

Then it actually outperforms it, noise level is unknown though, even though the Sandia seemed fairly quiet apart from the high pitch whine.***
This is however not the limit of the Sandia cooler.***

http://www.intel.com/content/dam/www...cket-guide.pdf page 71
http://prod.sandia.gov/techlib/acces...010/100258.pdf page 25

If we look at a decent cheap? cooler today, Xigmatek Dark Knight S1283W, it performs very well 0.220 c/w @ 1000 RPM. However it's a lot taller.
http://www.xigmatek.com/console/uplo...2011-07-15.pdf page 5

***The questions still arise, vertical mount? Actual noise? Cost? Actual performance? Generally papers that has not been subjected to peer review are not to be trusted.

However, let us decide most of these factors when we have something sturdy in our or others hand to test and properly compare! Give em a chance

[saveus222]

How about keep the heatsink still and spin the case?

Kidding though, if this works it might be cool idea

but i dont trust the way the heat get's transferred :<

Hahahahaah! EPIC
Or they might need to spin the cpu along with the heatsink...

[saveus222]

In Vaccum, only radiation applies!

[cegras]

I am not sure how accurate this is. Does it take less energy to turn big tires or small tires? All economy cars have really small tires. Intuitively I would think the forces acting on the heat sink spinning would be greater than that of a normal fan. This thing will have more blades, and more surface area for drag to work on.

Maybe I missed it, but I think one of the keys in this design is the air bearing. I wonder if it is the same type of air bearings I work with. We float really heavy translation stages on a cushion of 6um air, but we also use vacuum to control the gap. If this is what they are meaning by air bearing, then they are reducing the drag on the base. But they will need a source of pressurized air for the bearing.

That's because a wheel constantly experiences dynamic friction with the road, you need to keep applying force to reach dynamic equilibrium. The drag of air on the spinning heatsink is much less than drag of rubber and asphalt.

[Andrew LB]

It may be a cool idea (sorry) but I cant help thinking that this is a govt funded lab, would the R&D be justified/acceptable otherwise ??

Absolutely not. This project reminds me of just about every other government funded earmark which spends millions on reaffirming what we already know. Any advances in computer cooling technology will come from the private sector where results are a mandatory requirement for the capital investment.

Every single time the government becomes a 'venture capitalist' they screw things up. By picking a cronie friends company to flood with cash, it gives them no incentive to spend wisely, it discourages investors from putting money into competing companies, and the end result is a great recent example... a solar company named Solyndra. (google it).

Welcome to the world of sweetheart deals technology, and yes even if government funded this could easily happen. Perhaps not by a government run lab, but easily with the corrupt private sector that provides for the military at an insane cost and rarely delivers.

The corruption begins and ends with the federal government that doesn't care about things like "results" or having to make a budget, or being financially responsible. Until voters open their eyes, stop enabling politicians who are bankrupting the country, and vote the bums out of office.... the corruption will continue while they and their buddies laugh all the way to the bank. And to think the current guy in the white house managed to outspend Bush's 8 years in just 3! And bush had two full blown wars during his administration. lol.

[cegras]

Okay there libertarian, enough of your ranting.

[Manicdan]

. And to think the current guy in the white house managed to outspend Bush's 8 years in just 3! And bush had two full blown wars during his administration. lol.

economics 101, reducing taxes or increasing government spending are ways to get out of a recession. however both will cause a higher debt. the economy collapsed in late 2008 to early 2009 and was a bubble up until then. if you vote for a republican who will just reduce taxes (vs democrats who usually increase spending), i bet you would have seen the same exact increase in debt.

while your points about "no bid" contracts are accurate and horrible for our country. i would advise against the "what if" presidential scenarios, the mods dont like it very much.

[OldChap]

With regard to the noise level of this device, it should probably have a choice of speed versions so that us old folks can choose the 12K plus rpm version and not even be able to hear it

[alpha0ne]

With regard to the noise level of this device, it should probably have a choice of speed versions so that us old folks can choose the 12K plus rpm version and not even be able to hear it

But the neighbors can

[jogshy]

I'm a bit skeptic about this fan. As it appears not to contact directly to the CPU's IHS then than means we'll get a slim layer of air between them. Air is a VERY bad heat conductor so the hypothetical efficiency you gain with this fan's design is annulled by the heat conductivity.

Anyways, even if it works good, I doubt this could be cheaper and more effective than a Corsair H100 with Collaboratory Liquid Ultra TIM.

[mAJORD]

did anyone watch the video before commenting on the noise level?

It clearly says the noise is the motor in the pre-production version. I don't know why they wouldn't refine that before releasing a video, but anyway. They claim a production unit wouldn't emit that whine, and there's no technical reason why it should.

Also, at 2000RPM it would NOT need a powerful motor. I suggest studying some basic physics!