In Response to Chew's Goodbye Note (the unhealthy relation between company and commun

[BeepBeep2]

as i understand it, chew* has put in many hours on hardware given to him and also stuff bought himself, helping the overclocking community and being very good at getting 'high scores' in HWBOT, i have read his posts in the past and he has come up with some cracking stuff for memory settings and so on, therefore i would never dispute his abilitys

but again as far as i understand it, he was sailing in the wind for a possible job with a company, or some kind of sponsership, that paid him an earning ehh?

now to be fair, jobs with these comanys, usualy require some kind of science qualification, or that and math/physics, i myself have a Bsc(Hons) in Computer Science, and also an MBA, that in total took me 7 years to complete, i am also freelance, and to be honest i find it hard to secure work, from the 'bigger' companys, hell i would love a gig with intel/AMD/Nvidia/Giga/MSI etc, but the reality is i cant.

so why would Chew expect it? does he have some qualifications that merit it, or did he think that a job would come along purely on the merits of a HXbot score(s)?

also please if i have this all wrong i apoligise, i have read the main story, and this is how i understand it, if i am wrong please tell me

anyways, best of luck with the family, you can allways use the pots to keep your pennys in for the kids ehh?

Though he may not have a degree, he had picked up quite a bit of useful information over the last few years doing extreme overclocking and several of those things were integrated into boards like the Crosshair V Formula and UD7...at his request.
He wanted a job that would let him get paid to help design boards, test boards or come up with ideas for software/hardware that can be used on future boards (goes back to design).

Extra 4-pin on the CHV afaik came at chew*'s request due to high loads with Thuban under LN2 burning EPS-8 Pin and ATX 24 pin connectors. Manufacturers such as MSI, Gigabyte and ASUS were simply using him as a guinea pig to help them design (much) better products for overclockers and end users while he was "paid" in free hardware...but free hardware doesn't really merit the hundreds of hours he had put into each board.

In other ways, his knowledge about the memory controller was astounding, he could have helped give feedback to manufacturers about what works and what doesnt on what chips, and I believe he did. M5A and CHV clock memory better than M4A and CHIV.

[sin0822]

The knowledge that Chew has is much greater than someone coming out of school with no real life experiences at all. I mean what are they supposed to take? overclocking 4012? (id sign up for that class). I am not going to get in this debate over whether they should have hired him becuase I don't know enough about the industry as a whole, but i want to say that the knowledge we gain here isn't taught in a textbook.
i am sad to see you leave chew! Thanks for all your help and advice!

[True Brit]

Though he may not have a degree, he had picked up quite a bit of useful information over the last few years doing extreme overclocking and several of those things were integrated into boards like the Crosshair V Formula and UD7...at his request.
He wanted a job that would let him get paid to help design boards, test boards or come up with ideas for software/hardware that can be used on future boards (goes back to design).

Extra 4-pin on the CHV afaik came at chew*'s request due to high loads with Thuban under LN2 burning EPS-8 Pin and ATX 24 pin connectors. Manufacturers such as MSI, Gigabyte and ASUS were simply using him as a guinea pig to help them design (much) better products for overclockers and end users while he was "paid" in free hardware...but free hardware doesn't really merit the hundreds of hours he had put into each board.

In other ways, his knowledge about the memory controller was astounding, he could have helped give feedback to manufacturers about what works and what doesnt on what chips, and I believe he did. M5A and CHV clock memory better than M4A and CHIV.

so your saying he had extensive knowledge of electrical engineering then? because that is what it takes to fully understand the make up of a motherboard, also a basic understanding of CAD and 3D modeling would help to visualise the results and possible outcomes (snagging)

as for the above quote in bold, have'nt we all, we all pick up information all the way, and not just in one subject, i myself have many trades, including system building and overclocking, but i never expect this to pay me a wage, these are hobbies and remain as such,

i paid (still paying) and worked hard for my education, to set myself above the pack, to enable me to provide for family and life. why should someone come along into a small community, do a bit of this and that and expect huge rewards? without doing the leg work first? and to be honest this is not about chew* anymore, this is about in general

we have various vetting/educational standards in place for a reason, whether we like it or not, this is to seperate the wheat from the chaf, people have contributed more to medical science for nothing than any so called contribution here among these forums.

do it for the love of it, or dont do it at all...dont expect or shout for a return on something you started for the love of it, just walk away gracefully.

this i suspect is this gentlemans reasoning on this subject, and good luck to him

ill leave this thread now, purely for the respect of OP and the man himself, i wish him the best for the future

[chew*]

I'm not going to go into detail and what not.

I will say this however, I am a mechanic actually the term for me would be better stated as "advanced automotive diagnostic technician". I have no degrees for this. I have worked in the field for many years. I have seen those come and go with more papers proving they are qualified than you can choke a mule with and they are complete failures when it comes to the actual application. I have diagnosed many cars for these would be "cats ass to automotive diagnostics" type individuals so they could be "parts replacers"

Partially this is why I have excelled at what I do, I follow a typical flow chart approach but also think outside the box.

Quite honestly diagnosing/trouble shooting pc's and or components and there issues is not to unlike diagnosing driveability issues with a car.

In the same sense this applies to any other job out there. There are those have applied skill/knowledge, and those who are book smart.

No one said I was applying for a job or looking for a job in engineering so I have no clue where that came from or why it is even a topic of discussion.

At best an overclocker has a chance in marketing, tech support and product features/ design just in case anyone is curious.

All of which I have actively participated in.........quite successfully i might add.

[MrMojoZ]

Quite honestly diagnosing/trouble shooting pc's and or components and there issues is not to unlike diagnosing driveability issues with a car.

Applies to a whole lot of things, I went from a bench tech to a software developer using the same set of diagnostic skills. You can plug a problem solver into most jobs, the trick is to keep them from getting bored.

[[XC] gomeler]

so your saying he had extensive knowledge of electrical engineering then? because that is what it takes to fully understand the make up of a motherboard, also a basic understanding of CAD and 3D modeling would help to visualise the results and possible outcomes (snagging)

as for the above quote in bold, have'nt we all, we all pick up information all the way, and not just in one subject, i myself have many trades, including system building and overclocking, but i never expect this to pay me a wage, these are hobbies and remain as such,

i paid (still paying) and worked hard for my education, to set myself above the pack, to enable me to provide for family and life. why should someone come along into a small community, do a bit of this and that and expect huge rewards? without doing the leg work first? and to be honest this is not about chew* anymore, this is about in general

we have various vetting/educational standards in place for a reason, whether we like it or not, this is to seperate the wheat from the chaf, people have contributed more to medical science for nothing than any so called contribution here among these forums.

do it for the love of it, or dont do it at all...dont expect or shout for a return on something you started for the love of it, just walk away gracefully.

this i suspect is this gentlemans reasoning on this subject, and good luck to him

ill leave this thread now, purely for the respect of OP and the man himself, i wish him the best for the future

Brian pissed me off a few times but even I respect his understanding of overclocking AMD systems. I consider there to be two types of smart people in the world. There are the book smart people who spend years studying books to prove they're capable of being educated(sounds like you're one of those, I am too) and then there are the real-world application smart or "street" smart people. Brian is definitely of the latter and his hands on testing would yield experience that any matter of schooling on electronics couldn't provide.

That was a long way of saying I think you discount his knowledge as something common and not on par with what you paid lots of money for. I will agree that I would never consider this hobby to be a primary bread-winner but coming from experience you can at least turn it into a low expense hobby if you're willing to put some time into it. In the end though you're better off making the big bucks elsewhere and spending your scarce free time doing something fun instead of grinding away on a board.

Now, I'm glad to see you and beepbeep2 were able to avoid an unfavorable outcome.

[True Brit]

I have worked in the field for many years. I have seen those come and go with more papers proving they are qualified than you can choke a mule with and they are complete failures when it comes to the actual application.

I have worked in the field for many years. I have seen those come and go without more papers proving they are unqualified than you can choke a mule with and they are complete failures when it comes to the actual application.

there is always two sides to a coin, and this is my personal experiance, the days of 'coming through the ranks' is over. without education you are stunted to go no further, without even having the knowledge to understand why.

that guy you were stereotyping up there will be your senior manager soon, and even if you have all the 'on the ground' experiance in the world, he will sack you for nothing other than being late twice, this is reality.

again nice to meet you, good luck with the cars

@Gomeler

in no way did i in any way meen his knowledge was in any way 'common' or because he didnt pay for it, it was not as good, what i am trying to say is that in the real world its whats on paper that counts, this is the reality we live in, we grow up in this world with the expectation put on us.

my advise straight off to this guy? if you dont love it any more, walk away, but recognise the talent you have and exploit it through education, using your extensive knowledge to back up any learned route, you can only excel, and make money from it. because the reality of this is that you now have both sides of the coin to play with practical/theory

and again, this is such a nice debate about something much wider than chew* more about the ,many talented peeps out there who are never recognised for the work they do, purely because they dont have the knowledge or know how to publish thier work. that is then used by someone else to claim fame and fortune. that still happens today...from eddison to Mark Zuckerberg !!!

[chew*]

that guy you were stereotyping up there will be your senior manager soon, and even if you have all the 'on the ground' experiance in the world, he will sack you for nothing other than being late twice, this is reality.

That has been the case twice, and twice, I walked and did not get fired, On my way out I said this place will be all done in a month and guess what, both companies went under .

The sad truth that those "smart" guys forget. Is when you fire all the indians, the chiefs have no applied skill..........

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

That has been the case twice, and twice, I walked and did not get fired, On my way out I said this place will be all done in a month and guess what, both companies went under .

The sad truth that those "smart" guys forget. Is when you fire all the indians, the chiefs have no applied skill..........

Been there and I can empathize. They also forget you don't stand still. You either learn new things or you fall behind.

Sorry to hear that you're leaving man. I was hoping to see your skills with AM3+.

Best of luck to you! You've been a huge asset to the OCing world.

[kuroikenshi]

That has been the case twice, and twice, I walked and did not get fired, On my way out I said this place will be all done in a month and guess what, both companies went under

I can also relate to this, and I had both sets of skills you described. Some companies do indeed believe their "indians" are replaceable, when in reality what they have are key personnel.

Many companies forego to understand the nature of HRM (human resource management) and believe that everyone is replaceable, that might be so, but sometimes it will take more than 6 rounds of interviews and 1000 candidates applying to find a perfect replacement. and even then you might never find a perfect replacement.

[XRL8]

@True brit

Teh fact that you paid a lot of money for an education in itself doesnt mean nothing as for your capability for doing any type of work any better .
Of course there is higher probability that you will have more knowledge, and/or you will be able to execute this knowledge for benefit of your work.However it does not guarantee anything.

Human beings are capable of learning outside of structuralized education system.And as weird as it may sound.Most people can do most jobs if trained at the workplace+self learning.

People with a degree in something tend to have superiority complex ;-) .First thing i point them to is recent economic meltdown, which 95% of economists were in denial of, just days before.Really smart people.(you would think).

[BeepBeep2]

@True brit

Teh fact that you paid a lot of money for an education in itself doesnt mean nothing as for your capability for doing any type of work any better .
Of course there is higher probability that you will have more knowledge, and/or you will be able to execute this knowledge for benefit of your work.However it does not guarantee anything.

Human beings are capable of learning outside of structuralized education system.And as weird as it may sound.Most people can do most jobs if trained at the workplace+self learning.

People with a degree in something tend to have superiority complex ;-) .First thing i point them to is recent economic meltdown, which 95% of economists were in denial of, just days before.Really smart people.(you would think).

Dont feed.

See sig.

[kuroikenshi]

thanks gomeler!!
Last edited by [XC] gomeler; Today at 08:01 AM. Reason: fixed the end-quote

[Mysterfix]

I have just recently gone through a similar situation where I was passed over for a job for someone else who has no experience or formal education in my field. The difference is I actually know what I'm doing and would have no trouble getting the job done if I had no one around to help me. The guy that was hired in my place has no experience what so ever and wouldn't be able to manage if he was left alone.

@True brit, more often than not in big company situations it's not what you know but who you know. I have seen it time after time where a business guy will come in thinking how easy our jobs must be and start making changes without any real knowledge of what needs to happen to get the job done. In the end they always end up quitting or getting fired when all they really needed to do was humble themselves and learn a thing or two from the guys that get the job done everyday.

chew* good luck bro, I hope you are able to land that dream job one day. The IT guy at my company got his job because his wife is in a high level position... Everytime he comes out to fix one thing he screws up something else. lol

[NEOAethyr]

Good luck Brian? (I think it is), aka Chew.

Hey dudes, most of you don't know me very well, I was at the dfi support forums for a LONG time trying to help people.
My name's Joe, just call me NEO or Joe, whatever.
I personally was hoping to get some sort of basic support job on the forum when dfi was still around but that never happened.
Computers are pretty much the only thing I do.
Kinda sucks, but ohwell you know...
Free hardware, well I never even got that chance, I wish I did.

Anyways Chew, don't quit outright, just hang in there.
Stop in the forum once in a while.
Forget about trying to help every single person out there, because it just doesn't get you anywhere (it's not that, but it's time consuming and such).
That and trying for WR's all the time.
Just overclock your own stuff, for what you need it to do, and be happy with that.
That's what I'm doing, I don't have the time to do bios mods right now, and haven't for a few years.
I'll pick it back up someday, it's a hobby.
I hope the same goes for you, just do what you wanna do and nothing more.
Don't go busting your butt for this stuff, I don't know...

I just hope your luck ends being better then mine.
Right now my life is f@cked.
But either way I'll still stop by when possible so I hope you do the same .

Well anyways ah, good luck with whatever you decide to do, best wishes yo .

2011...., tiest year evah.


About the peeps that learn from the books and have 0 experience.
Those peeps are usually retarded, no offense, but they usually know absolutely nothing.
I remember the network dean at the local college, the guy was a moron, some girl asked if she could get on the website with xp home and the dude was dumbfounded, saying he wasn't sure.

[Sparky]

@True brit, more often than not in big company situations it's not what you know but who you know. I have seen it time after time where a business guy will come in thinking how easy our jobs must be and start making changes without any real knowledge of what needs to happen to get the job done. In the end they always end up quitting or getting fired when all they really needed to do was humble themselves and learn a thing or two from the guys that get the job done everyday.

This happened at my brother's work. New guy decided he was going to do things his way and just started changing stuff and firing people to replace with others the way he saw fit. My brother was one that was cut. Well, he almost made them go under because of it.
The good thing was the guy was smart enough to realize what he was doing was stupid and he was just on a power trip, so he actually stopped and humbled himself, admitted his failure, and they brought back many of the guys (my brother included). The company is doing really, really well now. No one's holding any grudges and my brother and his coworkers probably have some of the best job security ever now since the higher ups now know they aren't expendable or easily replaced.

[insurgent]

Diplomas mean sh*t, it's just a glorified receipt from your school and it doesn't magically turn you into the most qualified applicant. If engineers are so good with their jobs why does it take someone like chew* to discover hardware limitations and flaws? Engineers follow a formula in design while overclockers push the hardware to the extreme, probably in ways engineers can't even begin to imagine.

XLR8 has the right of it.

[vasgto]

Oh the drama.... Will somebody give this guy a cherry i2600k or 990x? Go break some world records on intel.... that will show them

You still have that X58-OC and Asus ROG, don't you?

[chew*]

I sold one for dirt, gave the other away.

[trn]

I won't even pretend to understand the issues here; I can just offer a good luck to a community member, chew*

[nn_step]

That has been the case twice, and twice, I walked and did not get fired, On my way out I said this place will be all done in a month and guess what, both companies went under .

The sad truth that those "smart" guys forget. Is when you fire all the indians, the chiefs have no applied skill..........

Well the most skilled always are the ones who are a little bit different.

Added to the fact that the most profitable and successful companies became that way because of competent engineers running the company the way they wanted for years before the suits started removing the talent. [The more successful companies isolate the suits from the people who actually do useful work]

[STEvil]

Chew, still gonna hang around a bit? I'd like to see you do some SPL fun. Nothing huge, but just enough to have some fun

[Mysterfix]

This happened at my brother's work. New guy decided he was going to do things his way and just started changing stuff and firing people to replace with others the way he saw fit. My brother was one that was cut. Well, he almost made them go under because of it.
The good thing was the guy was smart enough to realize what he was doing was stupid and he was just on a power trip, so he actually stopped and humbled himself, admitted his failure, and they brought back many of the guys (my brother included). The company is doing really, really well now. No one's holding any grudges and my brother and his coworkers probably have some of the best job security ever now since the higher ups now know they aren't expendable or easily replaced.

Good to see the guy realised he made a mistake and had the courage to admit it and try to make it right.

[cegras]

True Brit, you can go to school all you want, but all the scenarios and knowledge from the textbooks in the world will not help you when it comes to application. I am speaking as a fresh chemistry graduate, moving into a PhD this fall. When you do actual chemistry in the lab textbooks will give you no answer to what is happening and frequently the explaining you do to rationalize results borders on just pulling things out of your ass based upon what you know.

[Serra]

It's quite true really, the enthusiast community does not reward long-term involvement at the high end.

In response to the article - in fairness that has always been the case and it has always been well known. Staying in that game expecting it to pay off at some point would be naive. Is it a rip-off of consumers from companies though? Personally I don't really think so - there is always someone who will be thrilled to start the reviewing circuit and who am I to deny someone that because an experienced reviewer wants to be "paid" more since they're not having as much fun? To me, overclocking is a Hobby - not a job - and it should be about the fun, not the money.


For Chew's sake I'm glad he left that scene. He will be missed, but it's only worth performing optional (eg. non bill-paying) activities if you're having fun. Hopefully he can come back after some time recharged and ready to dive to new technical levels. But in the meantime Chew, do us all a favor and at least check in the forums sometimes... when you drop the reviews the pressure drops off considerably and you might find that helps make the hobby a bit more fun again.