Hello everyone.
In my unsuccesful, amateur try to remove the damaged middle screw of my Gigabyte Gtx 470 (normal not SoC edition),
i Accidentally hit the C657 and C658 Smd
Problem is the capacitors dropped and i lost them.
Can anyone of you, be kind enough to supply me the electronic characteristics of those so i can look for them in after market electronic shop?
Can i solder new capacitors?
Thank you in advance
Last edited by Hellion; 07-14-2011 at 03:15 AM.
Most likely 0603 ceramic SMD capacitors. Value, don't know and without details there's no sense in stating a number. My guess would be that those are for power and not for signal filtering. So maybe class2, X7R.Originally Posted by Hellion
If you just wanted to know if it's possible to replace the caps, of course it is.
Last edited by celemine1Gig; 07-05-2011 at 06:26 AM.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Your best (and maybe only) bet is to get a faulty card from ebay and use the caps from that.
Sorry, bu that's just plain wrong. Or do you go out and buy a new (or used) car every time you have a flat tire? Sorry for the exaggeration, but I think you know what I mean.
The thing is only that I don't know what the cap is doing, i.e. what it is connected to. And that's why I said I don't know what value to choose. As soon as you know what the cap does, it's pretty easy to guesstimate what value should work.
I don't have such a card, so I can't tell. And honestly I don't have the time ATM for some further research. But this repair is faaaaaaaar from being impossible.
I would guess that there are a number of people around here in the forums who can tell the thread starter pretty exactly what values to look for. You just need some patience or the luck that they have a look at the thread.
Last edited by celemine1Gig; 07-05-2011 at 07:48 AM.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Also should check if solder pad has been removed. Physically ripping off components often removes the pad...which is bad news. almost impossible to resolder. Can get lucky if some of it still remains, else improvise by removing solder resist then stretching over the component or other such tactics (use larger type or 0R daisy chains)
Sorry, bu that's just plain wrong. Or do you go out and buy a new (or used) car every time you have a flat tire? Sorry for the exaggeration, but I think you know what I mean.
The thing is only that I don't know what the cap is doing, i.e. what it is connected to. And that's why I said I don't know what value to choose. As soon as you know what the cap does, it's pretty easy to guesstimate what value should work.
I don't have such a card, so I can't tell. And honestly I don't have the time ATM for some further research. But this repair is faaaaaaaar from being impossible.
I would guess that there are a number of people around here in the forums who can tell the thread starter pretty exactly what values to look for. You just need some patience or the luck that they have a look at the thread.
You can hardly pop your graphics card into the local micro mart and have them swap some SMD's out while you wait though can you? No need for ridiculous comparisons to try and insult people, they backfire just as often as not.
We dont know what those caps are doing, without getting someone else to desolder it you cant get a proper rating on it (you cant trust any reading on components from an unknown circuit, you need to isolate to get good measurements). Unless an Nvidia engineer who just knows what it is happens to read this thread you're not going to find out this way. Even if you do find out what part it is you'll likely face high costs in relation to what youre ordering and have difficulty ordering small quantities. Most companys that sell SMDs are set up to shift volume rather than single parts to end users.
Many people have made these types of post (myself included back with an old Radeon 9800) and they all go the same way. Buy a broken one to fix it or sell it as broken, seriously its the quickest and easiest solution, may even work out to be the cheapest too. Seriously, deepest sympathy for the blunder, been there and done it. Experience says either get a dead card off ebay or sell yours as faulty and move on (otherwise you'll end up sat there for weeks trying to solve the problem with no graphics card and end up doing the same thing anyway).
Last edited by PiLsY; 07-06-2011 at 07:39 AM.
First of all thank you people for the mass interest in this.
I have good and bad news.
Good news :
I found the one from the 2 smd's which appears to be identical to the other from what i see from most pcb photos out there and other gtx470s,including a msi one i have.
So i can hopefully measure it and work it out.
Also solder material wasnt hopefully scrapped away ill provide hq photos later.
Though i dont think, i will find any proper measurement capacity meter, for such low values,easily.
Bad news:
The gfx works ok without any artifacts on the same frequencies but at higher temperatures.(Stressed tested on OCCT GPU,3D mark Vantage and 11)
So i have to say ill wait a couple days to see if thats a thermal paste issue (i used AS5 component which has a couple days burnin response performance)
Maybe this accidental issue, might be a miraculous response to why lots of gtx 470 have big divergence in working temperatures-overclocking headroom.
Last edited by Hellion; 07-06-2011 at 08:39 AM.
@PiLsY:
If you post nonsense, then don't get pissy on me my friend.
And again your new posting doesn't help one bit and states things that are plain wrong, AGAIN.
I see. So I wrote that anyone could repair it and I personally insulted you by telling you that you were wrong? What are you? 10 years old? Oh and please show me where I wrote exactly that anyone could do it. There is a huge difference between saying that it is not impossible and saying that anyone could do it. Learn to read and apprehend!
You don't need an Nvidia Engineer for that. This is not about the GPU itself, but about the board powering it. Nearly any EE with a bit of background info could give you an estimate as to the value of the caps. And with background info, as I already said, I mean what the caps are connected to. Again, no need for Nvidia here.
In the meantime Hellion posted that the card works perfectly without the caps. That means that it's pretty sure that these two caps are "only" there for power filtering. So my advice for now (without any more info) would be to try class2 X7R 0603 100nF ceramic caps. That should probably do it.
So you order parts for PCBs every day? And you know for a fact that there are no suppliers, although you don't even know the parts you could theoretically be looking for?
Again, what are you talking about? There are enough electronic suppliers around the world that you can order nearly every part from. The parts surely won't be as cheap as when bought in high volumes, but still a huge bargain in comparison to a new card or even a defective one. The key is just to know what to look for.
I don't know where Hellion comes from but i'd be glad to assist him in finding the parts. And believe me, it'll be no big problem. Unbelieveable as it might be to you, there actually are suppliers selling small quantities and that can be proven any time.
And because it used to be like that noone will be able to solve this mysterious issue this time?
Excuse me, but if you have no clue, don't post in this section of the forums. And if you feel the need to piss someone off for no real reason, then go somewhere else. Unbelievable. I sure am no genius, but in comparison to you I at least know the basics and I'm willing to provide some real help on the matter.
If you have the need to act the smart guy, even if you clearly are not, and/or feel insulted when it turns out that you were wrong, then seek professional help, but don't post here hoping nobody would get it.
Last edited by celemine1Gig; 07-06-2011 at 09:14 AM.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Cool, epeen! I love making other people look bad, it gives me so much confidence!If you post nonsense, then don't get pissy on me my friend.
And again your new posting doesn't help one bit and states things that are plain wrong, AGAIN.
If you didnt insult him before, you did now! Congrats!...I personally insulted you by telling you that you were wrong?
What are you? 10 years old?
Oh and please show me where I wrote exactly that anyone could do it. Learn to read and apprehend!
You seem ever so unsure.That should probably do it.
That, is actually really nice of you, however you stated:Again, what are you talking about? I don't know where Hellion comes from but i'd be glad to assist him in finding the parts. And believe me, it'll be no big problem. Unbelieveable as it might be to you, there actually are suppliers selling small quantities and that can be proven any time.
There are obviously no suppliers...So you order parts for PCBs every day? And you know for a fact that there are no suppliers,
PiLsY's suggestion of getting a broken card was a reasonable low-tech "I dont have enough knowledge to help you further" alternative. Admit it, it would have worked, and broken parts are usually sold under $20. He'd have spares too. Oh wait, I was supposed to do this elsewhere at your request...sorry.Excuse me, but if you have no clue, don't post in this section of the forums. And if you feel the need to piss someone off for no real reason, then go somewhere else. Unbelievable. I sure am no genius, but in comparison to you I at least know the basics and I'm willing to provide some real help on the matter.
Seek professional help? You seem pretty fired up over his correct suggestion.If you have the need to act the smart guy, even if you clearly are not, and/or feel insulted when it turns out that you were wrong, then seek professional help, but don't post here hoping nobody would get it.
Both of you were right, in a sense, there is no reason to argue like 10 year olds about it.
Smile
Then show me the gazzillion of broken GTX470 cards if it's that easy to get ahold of one instead of ordering two (or maybe a bit more depending on the source) ceramic capacitors.
Instead you insulted me now. Congrats to that, too.Clearly shows that you are way cooler. I know that getting a bit bugged about this was unnecessary, but I am able to admit that this was not OK. What really gets me is when poeple post nonsense and then are unable to admit it. And telling someone that there is no other way than getting another card (that's what he implied, two times) is nonsense and that is a fact.
So do some real work and find the thread starter a dead GTX470 to salvage. They seem to be readily available everywhere.
Just because I didn't list suppliers doesn't mean there are none. It just means that I'm waiting for Hellion to tell me where he's from then it makes sense to search for the best source. Or should I recommend farnell, rs-components or some other sources, when it's of absolutely no use to him?
Edit:
You know what? Forget the whole discussion. I really am far too stressed ATM for any calm discussion. It just took me some time to realize that. Sorry for being a bit rude today.I'll give myself a little timeoff to relax, because it's no use to continue like that. There's no fun in that. The point is helping people in here. I seem to have lost that focus today. Anyway hope the problem gets solved, as it certainly seems to be fixable. Be it by getting another card or just some new parts.
If any help is needed, send a PM.
Last edited by celemine1Gig; 07-06-2011 at 12:41 PM.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
I agree with you that finding the two ceramic capacitors is a lot cheaper and easier.Then show me the gazzillion of broken GTX470 cards if it's that easy to get ahold of one instead of ordering two (or maybe a bit more depending on the source) ceramic capacitors.
Instead you insulted me now. Congrats to that, too.
So do some real work and find the thread starter a dead GTX470 to salvage. They seem to be readily available everywhere.
Just because I didn't list suppliers doesn't mean there are none. It just means that I'm waiting for Hellion to tell me where he's from then it makes sense to search for the best source. Or should I recommend farnell, rs-components or some other sources, when it's of absolutely no use to him?
I don't claim to be cooler, I just wanted to let you know that his answer wasn't totally incorrect. If OP found a dead 470, or even any recent dead video card from 8800 series up I'd he'd be able to use them to repair his 470.
Ebay shows dead 9800GT for $0.99.
I only got bugged about it because you did, no hard feelings, though I understand frustration about comments like "unless you have an nvidia engineer"...
If the card runs hotter without the caps chances are they are filtering power to the GPU core...it may be getting a slightly higher voltage than normal due to less caps on the loop. (Don't quote me on that, I do not hold much knowledge myself in this area)
Anywho,
USA (Newark) Canada
UK (Farnell)
Rest of Europe and Asia:
http://www.farnell.com/
Click on country, type "C0603C104K5RAC-TU" in the search box.
Last edited by BeepBeep2; 07-06-2011 at 12:56 PM.
Smile
No problem, just read my edit. You were right, I really was strained and therefore quite rude today without even noticing it. Really unnecessary stuff, but hey,happens.
It literally took me hours to actually realize it. I apologize. Really no need for getting so agitated.
Last edited by celemine1Gig; 07-06-2011 at 12:49 PM.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
The only reason I stepped in was partially because I am frustrated with people like those in my sig...No problem, just read my edit. You were right, I really was strained and therefore quite rude today without even noticing it. Really unnecessary stuff, but hey,
It literally took me hours to actually realize it. I apologize. Really no need for getting so agitated.
There is just no need to be this agressive on a simple internet forum imo.
Added links to 0.1uF X7R rated Type 603 caps in post above.
Smile
BTW, I'm not 100% sure that 0603 is the right size. The size should be double checked before ordering anything. I just guessed it judging by the not so clear pic in the first post. I'm quite positive it's not 0402, but it possibly could be 0805, too. Hard to say.
@Hellion:
Just take your card and compare with the sizes listed here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surface-mount_technology
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Smile
Looks like 0805 would be a better idea afterall. At least if my vision is still OK at this hour of the day.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Its hard to tell...they are so cheap its better to just play it safe and buy 2-4 of each or measure the top one (of the three sitting there) since that one is left intact on his card.
Smile
I have found a more detailed pcb photo to get an estimate.http://www.tweakpc.de/overclocking/g...gtx470_pcb.jpg
Hopefully ill have ultra high res photos of the "damaged" card and ceramic SMD when i get my hands on a quality camera.
I'm pretty sure now that it's 0805, but it absolutely won't hurt much to buy both sizes.
Looking at the caps on the back of the RAM chips, right to the left of the damaged caps, the smallest should be 0402. The ones a bit bigger should be 0603 and now the damaged caps look even bigger than that, so 0805 should fit.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
doesn't even matter, i could fit a 402 in a 805 solder pad
It does somehow matter because 0805 is way easier to solder than 0402. But in general it really doesn't matter much as long as the capacitance value and the other electrical chracteristics fit the job and the connection is OK.
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Do you know what i did to screw that was damaged? I took a drill and drilled trough the screw, talk about drangerous removal of screw
Anyway, i think it is indeed 0805.
::: Desktop's - Intel *** Intel 2
2 x Xeon E5-2687W *** Intel i7 3930k
EVGA SR-X *** Asus Rampage IV Extreme
96Gb (12x8Gb) G.Skill Trident X DDR3-2400MHz 10-12-12-2N *** 32Gb (8x4Gb) G.Skill Trident X DDR3-2666 10-12-12-2N
3 x Zotac GTX 680 4Gb + EK-FC680 GTX Acetal *** 3 x EVGA GeForce GTX780 + EK Titan XXL Edition waterblocks.
OCZ RevoDrive 3 x4 960Gb *** 4 x Samsung 840 Pro 512Gb
Avermedia LiveGamer HD capture card
Caselabs TX10-D
14 x 4 TB WD RE4 in RAID10+2Spare
4 x Corsair AX1200
::: Basement DataCenter :::
[*] Fibreoptic connection from operators core network
[*] Dell PowerConnect 2848 Ethernet Switch [*] Network Security Devices by Cisco
[*] Dell EqualLogic PS6500E 96Tb iSCSI SAN (40 2Tb Drives + 8 Spare Drives, Raid10+Spare Configuration, 40Tb fail safe storage)
[*] Additional SAN machines with FusionIO ioDrive Octal's (4 total Octals).
[*] 10 x Dual Xeon X5680, 12Gb DDR3, 2x100Gb Vertex 2 Pro Raid1 [*] 4 x Quad Xeon E7-4870, 96Gb DDR3, 2x100Gb Vertex 2 Pro Raid1
[*] Monster UPS unit incase power grid failure backed up by diesel powered generator.
Fixed the card on weekend.No big deal actually it just pumps up wattage a bit slower when going to 3d.Same temperatures.Thank you all for the feedback.
Last edited by Hellion; 07-14-2011 at 03:16 AM.
I7 2600K, Asus P67 8 GB Corsair Cas 8,Gigabyte Gtx 470, Dell 2408WPF
Good to hear. Just one last question:
The power usage now increases slower in comparison to what? The original card, or with the two broken caps?
Quote from one of our professors:
"Reality is hiding in the imaginary part."
Slower in comparison to the broken cap card.Takes 0.5-1 sec more to reach peak wattage while stress burning .Good to hear. Just one last question:
The power usage now increases slower in comparison to what? The original card, or with the two broken caps?
I7 2600K, Asus P67 8 GB Corsair Cas 8,Gigabyte Gtx 470, Dell 2408WPF
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Bookmarks