Thinking about TEC, read the FAQs, few questions and where to go next?

[Blindsay]

Ok watercooling has been fun but im looking for something new to try I want something more extreme but i want it to be something i can run 24/7 (so LN2 is out) and phase change looks neat but really expensive and bulky (im hoping to hide this TEC setup in my case)

1. First thing that comes to mind is insulation. It looks like a real PITA to insulate and messy. The kneadable eraser looking stuff looks like the cleanest solution as id like to not have to put grease etc all over my board. So i guess im looking for the cleanest looking solution for insulation

2. Size of the TEC - Not sure whats a reasonable temp to shoot for but say if i went for 0C (using the math from http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...-Guide-to-TECs) my cpu is around 170w overclocked according to some of the calculators ive found and i would need around a 320w TEC to achieve that temp goal. But i take it that formula would assume im running the TEC at its peak voltage and that in actually i would want to get a bigger TEC and run it at a lower voltage for better efficiency?

3. Cooling the TEC/Loop - Assuming i do need a 320W TEC and then my 170W CPU thats 490W that i need to dissapate from the CPU alone. Factor in that i have 2 6970s as well. I have 2 360RADS (GTX360, GTS360) would those be enough for that much heat?

4. the TEC itself - i saw the swiftech MCW6500-775T which i thought was really cool but only for socket 775. Is there anything like that for 1366 or what would your suggestion be for a 1366 solution?

5. TEC power supply - I think for this i would just buy a power supply meant for a TEC, i dont want to mod an ATX power supply mostly due to space reasons

6. TEC doesnt seem that popular (just an observation of mine and very well could be wrong) is it just because its more of an extreme solution and not many people do it or is it dying off?



one more thing. What about a TEC Chiller?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ontroller-24-7

saw that and thought it was pretty cool, would i have to insulate pretty much everything at that point or how would it work?

[mindchill]

Ok watercooling has been fun but im looking for something new to try I want something more extreme but i want it to be something i can run 24/7 (so LN2 is out) and phase change looks neat but really expensive and bulky (im hoping to hide this TEC setup in my case)

1. First thing that comes to mind is insulation. It looks like a real PITA to insulate and messy. The kneadable eraser looking stuff looks like the cleanest solution as id like to not have to put grease etc all over my board. So i guess im looking for the cleanest looking solution for insulation

2. Size of the TEC - Not sure whats a reasonable temp to shoot for but say if i went for 0C (using the math from http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...-Guide-to-TECs) my cpu is around 170w overclocked according to some of the calculators ive found and i would need around a 320w TEC to achieve that temp goal. But i take it that formula would assume im running the TEC at its peak voltage and that in actually i would want to get a bigger TEC and run it at a lower voltage for better efficiency?

3. Cooling the TEC/Loop - Assuming i do need a 320W TEC and then my 170W CPU thats 490W that i need to dissapate from the CPU alone. Factor in that i have 2 6970s as well. I have 2 360RADS (GTX360, GTS360) would those be enough for that much heat?

4. the TEC itself - i saw the swiftech MCW6500-775T which i thought was really cool but only for socket 775. Is there anything like that for 1366 or what would your suggestion be for a 1366 solution?

5. TEC power supply - I think for this i would just buy a power supply meant for a TEC, i dont want to mod an ATX power supply mostly due to space reasons

6. TEC doesnt seem that popular (just an observation of mine and very well could be wrong) is it just because its more of an extreme solution and not many people do it or is it dying off?



one more thing. What about a TEC Chiller?

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ontroller-24-7

saw that and thought it was pretty cool, would i have to insulate pretty much everything at that point or how would it work?

I'll give you my opinions, but there are alot of different idea's on how to do this.

1. I personally don't insulate anything because I keep my temps above dewpoint. Here in the desert its so dry that anything about 0ºc really doesn't condensate. One way to do this is with a temp controller.

2. If you mean getting your heatspreader to 0º means your cores will likely be around 25ºc If your trying to get your cores to 0ºc then I'd go with phase over tecs. If your happy with your heatspreader at 0ºc then you need to look at tecs where your dt is about 35ºc. given your hotside will run about 35-40ºc with adequate cooling. There isn't a single tec that I know of that will run 170w @ 35ºc dt. This one http://www.customthermoelectric.com/...Z_spec_sht.pdf comes close but figure about 10ºc in losses in your build. Also you almost gain nothing running a tec over 60-70% of rated power. Two of these tecs would get you in the ballpark imo.

3. In my opinion you would need at least a triple per tec to get you where you want. 2 quads with push pull would be better. You want your water temps at about 24-28ºc A quick calculation running 2 of these tecs would put your waste heat at about 420w + your load 170W for at total of ~600w to be dissipated. you might be a better judge on what you really need to dissapate this kind of heat @ 5ºc dt.

4.I don't know of anything commercially available for the 1366 socket.. Everything that I know of is custom built

5. I'd suggest a 1 meanwell 24v@28amps for the tecs and run them in series.. I think this psu will push 28v which would put each tec at about 14v.

6. Because everything has to be custom built, and there is no 1 tec solution anymore with the modern processors, the popularity has gone away. All this is feasible but not easily implemented.

I am currently working on a few projects that might make this a little more feasible..(Maybe)

[Blindsay]

I'll give you my opinions, but there are alot of different idea's on how to do this.

1. I personally don't insulate anything because I keep my temps above dewpoint. Here in the desert its so dry that anything about 0ºc really doesn't condensate. One way to do this is with a temp controller.

2. If you mean getting your heatspreader to 0º means your cores will likely be around 25ºc If your trying to get your cores to 0ºc then I'd go with phase over tecs. If your happy with your heatspreader at 0ºc then you need to look at tecs where your dt is about 35ºc. given your hotside will run about 35-40ºc with adequate cooling. There isn't a single tec that I know of that will run 170w @ 35ºc dt. This one http://www.customthermoelectric.com/...Z_spec_sht.pdf comes close but figure about 10ºc in losses in your build. Also you almost gain nothing running a tec over 60-70% of rated power. Two of these tecs would get you in the ballpark imo.

3. In my opinion you would need at least a triple per tec to get you where you want. 2 quads with push pull would be better. You want your water temps at about 24-28ºc A quick calculation running 2 of these tecs would put your waste heat at about 420w + your load 170W for at total of ~600w to be dissipated. you might be a better judge on what you really need to dissapate this kind of heat @ 5ºc dt.

4.I don't know of anything commercially available for the 1366 socket.. Everything that I know of is custom built

5. I'd suggest a 1 meanwell 24v@28amps for the tecs and run them in series.. I think this psu will push 28v which would put each tec at about 14v.

6. Because everything has to be custom built, and there is no 1 tec solution anymore with the modern processors, the popularity has gone away. All this is feasible but not easily implemented.

I am currently working on a few projects that might make this a little more feasible..(Maybe)

Thank you for the reply.

The dew point is usually high around here so if im going below ambient id have to insulate. I would be fine with the heatspreader at 0c. I have 2 360 rads currently i was hoping they would be enough as i dont really have the room for more. I might be able to sneak another 240 or a 120 though but nothing substantial.

I really dont know what would be a good TEC for my cpu so im open to suggestions like the one you mentioned, you know my goal temp so we can go from there i guess.

Say i decided i wanted to go foward with this, what exactly am i going to need. A power supply of some sort, The TEC(s) itself, required materials for insulation and then what else?

How will i fit the TEC on the CPU? does it just sandwhich inbetween my waterblock and the cpu or what?

Sorry for all the questions, im 100% new to TEC lol

[mindchill]

well you need something like this for those tec's and a power supply. Namely the meanwell I had suggested earlier..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&daysprune=365

I made this one about a year ago.

or you could go with a chiller, like the one you posted earlier.

I think Ultrasonic makes some direct die's also.

I'd also recommend a temp controller of some sort.

[Blindsay]

well you need something like this for those tec's and a power supply. Namely the meanwell I had suggested earlier..

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&daysprune=365

I made this one about a year ago.

or you could go with a chiller, like the one you posted earlier.

I think Ultrasonic makes some direct die's also.

I'd also recommend a temp controller of some sort.

ok so basically my current cpu block is useless, and i need a custom block/tec.

One thing i noticed in that thread was the 4.5GHz run, the temps shot up a lot at that speed compared to 4.2. In fact at 4.5 they are no better then my current water cooling solution

[mindchill]

He's running an i7 920 @ 4.5ghz ht on with temps @ 49-45-43-41 at the cores running prime.

I think his normal water cooling put his cores up in the 70's with full prime w/ ht on. That would be about 30ºc dt from his normal water cooling.

I personally haven't seen anybody at 4.5ghz (ht on) running cores in the 40's on regular water on a prime test but I could be mistaken..

Maybe Elloquin can chime in on this because he did the testing on that block.

Edit: your current water block would not be useless if you went with a chiller. but you'd need another pump and loop.