Micro 4/3 Baby!

[1ke]

I picked up a used E-P1 a few months ago and have fallen in love with it. Automated controls work seamlessly, IQ is excellent, and its ultra compact. This summer is full of M4/3 releases and I wanted to know who else appreciates these cameras and is interested in playing with the newest generation of them?

[mav2000]

I'm actually using the Sony Nex, which is I would guess in the same category and am really enjoying it. Have just got a manual lens and an adapter to check how that works for me.

[1ke]

Manual Lenses

I've done in and have not been a fan. You can get stuff for cheap but unless the lens was designed to be manually focused, it takes too long. But the Leica M adapters with zeiss and voigtlander lenses work great.

[MRip]

I was this close to getting a Lumix GF2 to take on vacation but got an Olympus XZ-1 instead so my "better half" wouldn't be scared to use the camera. As in last minute change while in the store. Bad decision. After reading the reviews I thought I was about to witness the second coming but the low light shots just don't look nearly good enough to justify the rave reviews.

[1ke]

Its because the sensor they are using is from 2009 and its just been tweaked to hell. The new 4/3 sensors coming out are going to be better (Clean up to 1600 + ISO6400 usable + extended)

[Dainas]

What is said against these specialty point and clicks sorta resonates with me and 4/3rds too. If there was a real reason making their sensors smaller than APS-C beyond fatter profits I would likely have gone with an EPL-1, the crop factor and the fact they will ALWAYS be inferior to the larger APS-C competition in raw(no pun) performance.. Still; The Nex was a quirky bastard and still has no optically great native lenses to speak of. The latest firmware added a focus highlight peaking function that did make them pretty damn good at fast manual focus for adapter lenses, and the lenses they do have are fast at AF and the Samsun NX need a newer sensor as much as the 4/3rds.

If you want a camera to adapt every lens mount known to man to, the NEX cameras leave the competition beaten and bloodied. If you want good native lenses, go Samsung NX. Micro 4/3rds has really lost its place imho; but they have 3rd party support and they are still good cameras and if you have one, so enjoy it.

[1ke]

Arguments about which camera is better is like talking about politics or religion.

[Dainas]

Arguments about which camera is better is like talking about politics or religion.

haha indeed, but this makes even me feel better about Micro 4/3rds and Ricohs GXR

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/pentaxQ/

Sorry to be OT, but someone in Pentax really really REALLY misinterpreted what made EVIL cameras a success.

[1ke]

Its just overpriced, like the Sigma SD1. If it was in the range of high end compacts like S95, then I would buy it (assuming I was in the market for one)

[Lestat]

I don't think 399 for the olymus epl-1 with 14-42mm lens is bad at all.
Intact it's pretty damn good.
Good enough I grabbed one from best buy last night.

I have always wanted to try a m4/3 camera.
Guess what it's no different hahaha.
It's a very iso noise heavy camera past iso 800 but something strange I noticed is that photoshop pretty much removed ALL noise on an iso3200 shot but just jacking the luminance noise reduction and it didn't soften the image as much as I thought.
Then re sharpen it and it's a super clean and sharp image.

On the flip side I have a really tough time getting photoshop to reduce the noise of my canon raw files.. Not sure why.
But it destroyed all the noise in the Olympus raw file.

Not sure if I will keep it yet but it's a nifty little camera. the 40-140 i got with the kit is total garbage.. a real turd, not with 1/2 its price.
Too bad the only good lenses are manual lenses you have to use an adapter with.

[1ke]

Good lenses are coming. It is the plague of M43

[lkiller123]

If NEX has more lens options, I think it would pretty much dominate the m43.

What's preventing me from the NEX right now is its lack of a fast prime like the 50mm f/1.8.

[Mescalamba]

Theres plenty of good lenses to use with m4/3s if you dont mind manual focusing. But theres even quite a lot AF lens. Its pretty much one of best systems for using legacy lens. Though it has downside which is 2x crop.

NEX is same in this regard, though they really have very few AF lens and on top of that they are crap. But, you can get Leica M - NEX and use best existing lens. Or pretty much any lens you want, there are adapters for almost every existing system. Focusing with new firmware should be even easier now.

Pretty much every proper mirrorless system can be used today (read m4/3s, NEX, NX) for almost every work needed, if you can think bit "out-of-box".

[lkiller123]

At the price of around 550 bucks (with the 16mm prime and even the 18-55 kit lens in some cases), is the NEX system a good choice for night cityscape shots?

[1ke]

Both are good systems. I think both have a place.

[lkiller123]

For their price ($499 for the NEX-3 and the 16mm prime) it a good idea to get these mirrorless systems over a DSLR?

[1ke]

Yes. Let me answer that question by asking you this: What good is a crummy pentamirror for you?

[1ke]

This camera is so sexy. Looks like Olympus fixed the AF problems with m4/3 too.

[lkiller123]

Yes. Let me answer that question by asking you this: What good is a crummy pentamirror for you?

Besides looking like a badass with a huge camera, absolutely none.

Yeah, I think I will be saving up for a NEX!

This camera is so sexy. Looks like Olympus fixed the AF problems with m4/3 too.

A very nice lens too!

[Lestat]

whats the effect on FOV when using adapters on this camera?
most of the adapters are HUGE and push the lens way way away from the sensor.
so much that i wonder how you can even use the lenses, its like using a macro extension tube.

[BeepBeep2]

Besides looking like a badass with a huge camera, absolutely none.

Yeah, I think I will be saving up for a NEX!


A very nice lens too!

That, and sensor performance.
That is, ELP-2 being the exception of course.

For $500 with a tack sharp kit lens though, its great for those that dont want to lug around a larger heavier camera everywhere.

The 14-150 and 40-150mm lenses are not worth the price. They are sharp at f/11, but if you go to the middle of each's focal length (~75) there is a LOT of corner blurring at f/5 to f/8...problem is, there are no alternatives.

[Mescalamba]

whats the effect on FOV when using adapters on this camera?
most of the adapters are HUGE and push the lens way way away from the sensor.
so much that i wonder how you can even use the lenses, its like using a macro extension tube.

Nah its not macro tube Lestat, m4/3 has x2 crop and infinity focus with almost every existing lens (means when you put on 25mm lens, you will get 50mm lens FOV, calculated for full-frame). NEX and NX has 1.5x crop, so its regular APS-C, like Nikon D7000, Canon 7D etc. NEX can use almost every lens, including rangefinder ones (Leica M, Minolta, Canon). NX can use every dSLR lens, but no rangefinder, cause flange distance is longer than others. Infinity focus is no problem on mirrorless.

Those adapters are long, cause you need exactly same flange distance as in original camera for lens to work, but it doesnt have any downsides, except being bit big. (though NEX + Leica M lens is actually very small).

[lkiller123]

whats the effect on FOV when using adapters on this camera?
most of the adapters are HUGE and push the lens way way away from the sensor.
so much that i wonder how you can even use the lenses, its like using a macro extension tube.

The size of the adapters are mainly to extend the flange focal distance (FFD) of the mount system.

Sony designed the E-mount with less FFD to save space for a compact body.

For example, the E mount has a FFD of 18mm compared to the A mount's 44.5mm. To use an A mount lens on an E mount body, not only do you need an adapter to make sure that the lens can go on, you'd also need to extend the FFD in order for the lens to be usable.

That, and sensor performance.
That is, ELP-2 being the exception of course.

For $500 with a tack sharp kit lens though, its great for those that dont want to lug around a larger heavier camera everywhere.

The 14-150 and 40-150mm lenses are not worth the price. They are sharp at f/11, but if you go to the middle of each's focal length (~75) there is a LOT of corner blurring at f/5 to f/8...problem is, there are no alternatives.

Yeah, and I can get a wide angle converter on top of the 16mm pancake for a nice wide angle prime. The converter is specially designed for the 16mm. Excellent choice for a 12mm f/2.8!

[1ke]

I am excited for Olympus. They seem to know what educated consumers wanted in a camera (Styling is a big deal)

[Lestat]

i knew the system put the sensor closer to the rear element of the lens but when i looked at the length of some of the adapters i just couldnt believe it, some of them are several inches long and there is no way that the lens needs to be THAT far away. given the mounting length to a strip of film. but i admit i am not fammiliar with some of the old film cameras and the depth to the film and those are the adapters that are so huge.

i too was looking for just a walk around little camera with the option of swapping lenses. thats why i thought the 14-42mm was really a nice little lens. not a lot of need to swap lenses when its really a 28-84mm lens.
but that contrast base LiveMOS focusing just blows. no way its phasedetect.
when walking around, stopping and taking a picture i was only getting about a 1 out 5 keeper rate if not worse. the others,. i have no idea what it was focusing on.
if you push the shutter button too soon (ie; all the way down) it will take the shot before the system even has the image in focus. and the system doesnt know that its not suppose it. it just does it.

when stopping and taking time to set it up sure it hit the mark but really only at close range.
this is a guess but 10 feet and further away it just blew the shot.. way to many times.
its just like a point and shoot where you cant really guarentee your hitting your mark. but even then i have never had a P-n-S that missed shots like this.
so what ever they are using for the focusing algorithm they need to fix it.

as far as using non native lenses - if i have a walk around unit i dont want to be spending 10 minutes trying to manually focus everytime i have to take a shot.
i am not that good, i'll miss too much.

i know you can zoom with the LCD, i know if you hit info you can go from 7x, 10x and 14x which makes the focusing box smaller (or you can flat out zoom on the LCD) and i assume makes the focusing of the camera more accurate but its too slow, way too slow. but not as slow as my manual focus and rocking back and forth until i find the sweet spot lol.

and their constant autofocus is 100 % useless. it doesnt work because the camera has to struggle to find what to focus on because.. well its moving.

but i also realize there were some oddly named settings i didnt check the manual for. but it wasnt going to help much with what i had refered too unless it was quality vs speed on the constant focus. but again, because of the system they use for focusing, quality over speed would have made it worse i think.

-overall the E-PL1 gets great marks for being a unit that can do some serious rehashing of old lenses. great forethought on behalf of the creators.
-has a nice layout but the rocker button on the back of the unit (rear upper right corner) is in a bad place. i was constantly bumping the damn thing and zooming in on shots when i didnt want to.
-has horrible ISO performance in RAW mode (i never use iso noise reduction)... until you let photoshop get it,,, then the noise is gone.. literally.. gone
-stock 14-42mm lens is actually a nice sharp lens. but slow. (f/4-5.6) f5.6 @ 42mm.. wow.
-40-150mm M.Zeuko lens is total garbage
-availability of lenses is just retarded. why make a new camera format and then not even make any friggin lenses for it. i mean seriously. dont make excuses the m4/3 format has been out a long time and yet there still arent any native lenses. ok sure there is a nice 50mm f/2 macro, but really what else?
- the sensor and processor i THINK has ALOT of abilities left in it that Olympus just isnt using and never will use since the E-PL1 is a dead product. and the E-PL2 was a flop somewhat.

i took mine back, after looking at all the shots i took and only have about 1/2 dozen keepers out of a couple of hundred.. well... not worth my time. i would rather get a nikon or canon point-n-shoot.