Official EK statement - Nickel Plating Issues

[stangracin3]

You are kidding right? Please say you are kidding here...

Not everyone life in the US or europe, and have to get it shipped from abroad, which cost a pretty penny.
To send the block back to where I got it, for example frozencpu, I will have to pay 25$. And to get it back without tracking and a chance for it to get lost, will cost me another 25$.

If a kitchen mixer fails, I can deliver it to where I live in.

This is not the same!

he just used the wrong example, get over it.

if my gigabyte video card fails 3 months after i bought it i have to mail it in to gigabyte to get it fixed
if my asus motherboard fails 6 months after i bought it i have to mail it in to asus to get it fixed
if my WD hard drive fails 2 years after i bought it i have to mail it in to WD to get it fixed
If my mushkin ram failed 9 months after i bought what would i have to do? Oh yeah ship it to mushkin
you get my point yet or do i need to use a few more examples.
I still have a cpu, power supply, 2 hard drives, mouse, and a monitor i can use as an example.

[Phatboy69]

I have actually owned quite a few EK parts, I acutally have 7 in my rig right now (thankfully nothing nickel plated). A lot of the issue people are having is with the fact that the blame for this is being pushed onto the customers. The people who are experiencing issues with the blocks apparently didn't follow a set of unwritten guidelines for keeping the nickel plating from degrading and are responsible for the damage, but EK will be nice and RMA these anyway. Slashdot car analogy: This would be the same as me running 91 octane in my car, having the engine blow up, then being told that BMW will replace it but it was my fault that I was running just 91 octane without their tested additives. No other engines blow up on 91 octane, just theirs, and it's my fault. That is not an acceptable response.

There is no apparent intent from EK to fix this issue that seems only to occur with their nickel plating. If EK stated that they are planning on modifying their nickel plating so this won't happen in the future, that would be great. If they said they were going to use a different company for their nickel plating that would be great. If it was stated that measures to resolve this problem in any way would be taken, that would be great. That hasn't happened. They pushed blame onto the customers and have stated no intent to change their plating process. This alone is reason enough for a lot of people not to use their products.

All we have gotten is "this isn't a nickel plating problem" and "you need to use these specific additives" and no "we will be changing our process". They can RMA everything for free and replace all the blocks as much as they want, but if the original problem isn't addressed (and most here agree that it hasn't) then the problem isn't solved. Until EK states that their plating process was flawed (or at the least that they will be changing it) a lot of people won't be buying their nickel plated blocks and a lot of people will be bashing the company for how this was handled.

The report in no way declared a plating issue so you cannot claim a plating issue, and they do not need to defend their process or QA. Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water. Why is this the manufactures fault that people who thought they new better and went and used DI water and silver coils or other exotic additives and ended up with corrosion issues. DIY has it risks, especially when talking corrosion inhibitors and taking advice from backyard scientists. Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

[Phatboy69]

You are kidding right? Please say you are kidding here...

Not everyone life in the US or europe, and have to get it shipped from abroad, which cost a pretty penny.
To send the block back to where I got it, for example frozencpu, I will have to pay 25$. And to get it back without tracking and a chance for it to get lost, will cost me another 25$.

If a kitchen mixer fails, I can deliver it to where I live in.

This is not the same!

Welcome to the world of Internet retail. You take the risk the moment you purchase something internationally over the Internet.

[Aedubber]

The report in no way declared a plating issue so you cannot claim a plating issue, and they do not need to defend their process or QA. Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water. Why is this the manufactures fault that people who thought they new better and went and used DI water and silver coils or other exotic additives and ended up with corrosion issues. DIY has it risks, especially when talking corrosion inhibitors and taking advice from backyard scientists. Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

Im sorry but WHO are you? and why are you even talking when you are totally blinded.. I am by no means a EK hater or Fanboy, i have ran their products in a few of my personal builds and never had a bad experience but i do know right from wrong and so do others. People on these forums are not all alike , you have a wide variety of people with EXTREME knowledge , testing, and PHDs . You dont know who or what the person does for a living that is typing . The problem here is FLAKING , a faulty product, and NO your wrong buddy, its US that keep these forums alive, not the vendors. The vendors dont have all the knowledge we do , cuz you have people on here that due REAL life testing on the vendors products that have been sent to them . WE provide the expertise , the facts, the rights and wrongs, we live and learn . If it wasnt for us, the vendors wouldnt have sales, and if it wasnt for the forums , we wouldnt have our builds as XTREME as we do to the extent that we do . I do not want to attack you, but the a$$backwards talking coming from your mouth, putting down the mods , the owner, and the COMMUNITY on here ?!?! No my friend , your not getting away with that . If the vendor doesnt like the CUSTOMER feedback he can go elsewhere , simple as that. There have been tests done by such persons that CLEARLY show the problem is from bad plate job , not what we are using in our loops, and if YOUR that blind to see that well i dunno what to tell you, maybe you should find a different forums or something man.

[Darth_Penguin]

The report in no way declared a plating issue so you cannot claim a plating issue, and they do not need to defend their process or QA. Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water. Why is this the manufactures fault that people who thought they new better and went and used DI water and silver coils or other exotic additives and ended up with corrosion issues. DIY has it risks, especially when talking corrosion inhibitors and taking advice from backyard scientists. Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

Did you pick out each piece of your cooling system and install it yourself in your $20k car? I don't think so. Do you even understand why you use the coolant you do for your automobile?

Im just wondering if you actually read any of this thread? It appears you are biased and can't view the matter in an objective nature therefore I will consider you to be trolling like NK raider said.

[[AK]Zip]

The report in no way declared a plating issue so you cannot claim a plating issue, and they do not need to defend their process or QA. Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water. Why is this the manufactures fault that people who thought they new better and went and used DI water and silver coils or other exotic additives and ended up with corrosion issues. DIY has it risks, especially when talking corrosion inhibitors and taking advice from backyard scientists. Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

I put "DIY" coolant into all of my cars worth hundreds of thousands. It is DIY since I have to mix antifreeze with distilled water myself. All my cars are happy.

[OC Maximus]

Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

I run di-water and water wetter in my drag truck.

So yep, DYI Coolant FTW

[UrbanSmooth]

but how long have you had the block?

less than 4 months?

Since July of last year, actually.

[Phaseshift]

I'm gonna tell you something-the report that was published is crap.

Now, I CAN plate stuff all by myself, so I am not speaking out my hinder parts here. But if you look at the science behind it-that CANNOT happen, unless there is already a flaw in the block plating. Do you need more proof? I would cite the extremely high incidence not only of other companies but of older EK plating faring like tanks for years with anything you can imagine in those loops.

I think I have some nickel plated stuff still here. I also have access to sulfuric acid. Guess what-IT WON"T ATTACK IT WITHOUT A CHARGE APPLIED. Science you can try for yourself! If there's a hole in the nickel though, it eats the copper. Just like in a loop. I may try it with the base of my block (which looks great compared to the top) just for s***s and giggles.

Now, here's the part I want everyone to make sure they grab hold of-that report documents a completely possible scenario. It simply leaves off the fact that copper and nickel have to be in contact in a loop with enough impurities to create a weak battery, and then it destroys itself. Do those conditions exist if you use PT-Nuke? No, because copper sulfate is not readily breaking down to free copper ions and sulfur. Its valence shells are full, so it doesn't want to make compounds, and that's part (and only part) of galvanic corrosion.

Silver is noble enough that it should not have any issues with either nickel or copper. In fact, in loops with only copper and silver (where the largest gap in nobility lies) there is no corrosion. Nickel is in between those, so it should in theory react even less. But, you can force it if the items are in contact in the loop-like if the plating has gaps.

"Backyard scientist" or no, I do have the requisite knowledge to determine what happened to my own parts, and draw inferences based on that and known scientific principles and apply them to what I see posted by others. Requisite experiential knowledge, I might add.

Nickel is hard-wearing stuff. I have a nickel-plated horn that survived a blowtorch hot enough to pull the zinc out of the brass underneath without incident. And even silver is hard enough to wear in contact with saliva (there's something you don't want around metals) for more than a century-like my 1875 Moses Slater cornet, which still has 60% of its silver intact.

Like I said earlier though, he's replacing the blocks that failed, it's your choice to continue to use his nickel or replace for copper, or to dump them and go to another vendor. I'll tell you what I know-the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help me empirically verifiable external sources-but I will not think for you.

so do you have a plating service? I'm looking to see if we have a member that can do plating services for those who don't or want to still use EKs nickel plated waterblocks.

Are you in the us?

[penguins]

DIY Coolant? hahahahhahahahahaha

What the hell?? Loll

[step]

if my gigabyte video card fails 3 months after i bought it i have to mail it in to gigabyte to get it fixed
if my asus motherboard fails 6 months after i bought it i have to mail it in to asus to get it fixed
if my WD hard drive fails 2 years after i bought it i have to mail it in to WD to get it fixed
If my mushkin ram failed 9 months after i bought what would i have to do? Oh yeah ship it to mushkin
you get my point yet or do i need to use a few more examples.

Well that sucks for you. In Australia our stores are legally required to provide the minimum 12 months warranty, with a few that'll honour the warranty for even longer too.

[stangracin3]

if its an online retailer we get a month sometimes 2 if they like us.
if its a B&M depending on the store it can be a year.

like best buy will send them to the manufacturer for us if we take them to the store

[Interitus]

Is there an obvious time frame of when the defective blocks started showing up?

I have an untouched Supreme HF Full Nickel sitting here, had it since November as I'm just now starting my first water build. Kinda on the fence on whether to install it or not. If there's any chance it could wind up corroding, I'd rather just order something else or see if there's any way I could get it replaced.

[Aedubber]

Is there an obvious time frame of when the defective blocks started showing up?

I have an untouched Supreme HF Full Nickel sitting here, had it since November as I'm just now starting my first water build. Kinda on the fence on whether to install it or not. If there's any chance it could wind up corroding, I'd rather just order something else or see if there's any way I could get it replaced.

Im sure you can replace it with the copper version from EK but if you want nickel i would recommend have the block plated yourself or going with other vendors that provide a nickel plated block that is not flaking to be on the safe side.

[Panthols]

The report in no way declared a plating issue so you cannot claim a plating issue, and they do not need to defend their process or QA. Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water.

At the cost of feeding a troll... Answer these questions and then you might be taken seriously. If this is a problem inherent with nickel plating, then why isn't it an issue with Swiftech? Why isn't it an issue with Koolance or Bitspower or MIPS or Heatkiller or Dangerden. If this is a problem inherent with nickel plating, why isn't it an issue with older EK products?

Better yet, I would like an answer from EK on this.

[paulbagz]

At the cost of feeding a troll... Answer these questions and then you might be taken seriously. If this is a problem inherent with nickel plating, then why isn't it an issue with Swiftech? Why isn't it an issue with Koolance or Bitspower or MIPS or Heatkiller or Dangerden. If this is a problem inherent with nickel plating, why isn't it an issue with older EK products?

Better yet, I would like an answer from EK on this.

And I'm sure we would get a timely answer to such questions however Eddy would have to troll through 12+ pages of crap so far in order to root out the questions he needs to answer.

Then multiply that by all the other forums that are currently having this massive debate.

-PB

[Phatboy69]

Did you pick out each piece of your cooling system and install it yourself in your $20k car? I don't think so. Do you even understand why you use the coolant you do for your automobile?

Im just wondering if you actually read any of this thread? It appears you are biased and can't view the matter in an objective nature therefore I will consider you to be trolling like NK raider said.

As a matter of fact I have read all the threads, every page of several threads here and at other forums, as I am a concerned EK customer too.

No im not trying to troll, im just more of a half-cup-full kinda guy and I dislike abusive, misinformed oversized egos and bully behaviour in forums.

I feel truly sorry for those that have had problems, especially those who have not only felt the disruption to there hobby but also to those who now have to wear the cost and have to explain to significant others why they are being such grumpy buggers and spending all their time on-that-damn-computer.

Actually if you want take me on with the car mod thing go right ahead. I have spent more than 200k all up on modifying an AUDI S4 to over 500BHP over 7 years, and another Audi A4 to 350BHP doing a lot of the work myself, so by all means put me down... Adding antifreeze doesnt exactly qualify as DIY.

If you cant tell by my build, I think i feel comfortable in my own knowledge and abilities but i dont feel the need to bash people who have an opinion or who have asked for people to be reasonable when discussing a highly sensitive topic.

BTW its not the community that funds places like this. Sure without the community the advertising dollars wont come, but dont think for a minute that you know what monetises a website. I do, i do it for a living.

BTW I also did electroplating for a few years in my early 20s (and I have the scars to prove it) so I think i understand a thing or 2 about the process but im not going to jump on the bashing wagon as EK have offered to do the right thing and replace effected products and continue testing and provide additional advice as to what is safe to use with their product.

Yes it is likely there are some bad plating in products from all vendors including EK. At least they have done the right thing formally and professionally analysing the issue and advising the customers how to avoid it in future.

[Interitus]

Im sure you can replace it with the copper version from EK but if you want nickel i would recommend have the block plated yourself or going with other vendors that provide a nickel plated block that is not flaking to be on the safe side.

I pondered the idea of switching over to the copper version, problem is my rig's theme is red/black/nickel so it would be an eyesore next to my other nickel blocks (not EK). Call me crazy, but I'm not a big fan of acrylic top blocks either. I'd rather have something a little more failsafe, especially since I'm a rookie to WC.

I bought it from FrozenCPU back in November. I emailed them about possibly exchanging it for another block like the Koolance 370 which is similar priced. I'm not holding my breath as it's been almost 6+ months since I bought it.

I just figured if this was a newer issue it might not have affected my block. Since I'm a WC newbie I just really don't want to install that block knowing full well that this corrosion or whatever you call it is a good possibility.

[Waterlogged]

EK has already issued the statement that the plating is not to fault, for them to issue another statement saying they will/are investigating their plating process would be an admission that there is something wrong with their plating. . .this will never happen. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the whole "report" thing was a stall tactic in order for them to correct the problem and start shipping product with improved plating.

As for when this started, I don't think we'll ever find out an exact time but we can probably get fairly close if we go back over old posts. Here's one from Feb. http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...3&postcount=50, I'm sure it goes back before this.

[Darth_Penguin]

As a matter of fact I have read all the threads, every page of several threads here and at other forums, as I am a concerned EK customer too.

No im not trying to troll, im just more of a half-cup-full kinda guy and I dislike abusive, misinformed oversized egos and bully behaviour in forums.

I feel truly sorry for those that have had problems, especially those who have not only felt the disruption to there hobby but also to those who now have to wear the cost and have to explain to significant others why they are being such grumpy buggers and spending all their time on-that-damn-computer.

Actually if you want take me on with the car mod thing go right ahead. I have spent more than 200k all up on modifying an AUDI S4 to over 500BHP over 7 years, and another Audi A4 to 350BHP doing a lot of the work myself, so by all means put me down... Adding antifreeze doesnt exactly qualify as DIY.

If you cant tell by my build, I think i feel comfortable in my own knowledge and abilities but i dont feel the need to bash people who have an opinion or who have asked for people to be reasonable when discussing a highly sensitive topic.

BTW its not the community that funds places like this. Sure without the community the advertising dollars wont come, but dont think for a minute that you know what monetises a website. I do, i do it for a living.

BTW I also did electroplating for a few years in my early 20s (and I have the scars to prove it) so I think i understand a thing or 2 about the process but im not going to jump on the bashing wagon as EK have offered to do the right thing and replace effected products and continue testing and provide additional advice as to what is safe to use with their product.

Yes it is likely there are some bad plating in products from all vendors including EK. At least they have done the right thing formally and professionally analysing the issue and advising the customers how to avoid it in future.

What I bolded is where the problem lies. EK published a "report" that claims distilled water + silver/pt nuke is at the heart of this problem which goes against what has been standard practice in this industry/hobby for quite some time. I think its naive to not be suspicious of this report considering the overwhelming evidence of issues localized to ONLY EK branded nickel plated parts. Furthermore, considering the amount of Nickel plated parts available from all other companies and the amount of people that follow the standard practice of Distilled + PT Nuke/Silver wouldn't you think this problem would be more wide spread?

If "DIY" is so risky as you say why then should EK even offer a warranty?

P.S. I send to you my condolences. If I spent $200K on 2 different cars and was only able to muster up a combined 850hp I would probably consider moving on to a different hobby

[Phatboy69]

What I bolded is where the problem lies. EK published a "report" that claims distilled water + silver/pt nuke is at the heart of this problem which goes against what has been standard practice in this industry/hobby for quite some time. I think its naive to not be suspicious of this report considering the overwhelming evidence of issues localized to ONLY EK branded nickel plated parts. Furthermore, considering the amount of Nickel plated parts available from all other companies and the amount of people that follow the standard practice of Distilled + PT Nuke/Silver wouldn't you think this problem would be more wide spread?

If "DIY" is so risky as you say why then should EK even offer a warranty?

P.S. I send to you my condolences. If I spent $200K on 2 different cars and was only able to muster up a combined 850hp I would probably consider moving on to a different hobby

I was always suspicious of the claims about PT nuke, silver coils and other additives and went the premix route for this reason. Mixing metals and chemicals unless you know exactly whats in your loop is just not a good idea.

Thanks but the starting price here in OZ is a lot higher to start with.. 150k for the S4 and 85K for the A4. and the 200K+ was on the S4 only. the A4 had at least 50K spent on it too, not just engines, suspension, interior, stereo etc. Now you see why I spend money on PC modding, its infinetly cheaper!

[urgrandpasdog]

So the stickers that say 'Warranty Void if Removed' and run across the Acetal\Copper line can be cut across that line to remove the top? Im not trying to sound sarcastic, I'm not familiar with EK's RMA policy, and I would find that odd.

If I recall correctly, removing/damaging that sticker only voids the portion of the warranty concerning the block leaking. Everything else is still covered.

Anyone with half a brain knows that metals and some liquids will react in water. Why is this the manufactures fault that people who thought they new better and went and used DI water and silver coils or other exotic additives and ended up with corrosion issues.

Distilled water and silver/copper sulfate are not "exotic additives," they are the norm.

Would you put DIY coolant in your 20k car radiator? I don't think so.

I wouldn't buy a car radiator in the first place that corrodes when exposed to a standard automotive coolant mixture of distilled water and antifreeze.

[zeropluszero]

EK has already issued the statement that the plating is not to fault, for them to issue another statement saying they will/are investigating their plating process would be an admission that there is something wrong with their plating. . .this will never happen. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the whole "report" thing was a stall tactic in order for them to correct the problem and start shipping product with improved plating.

This deserves reiteration, just so it sinks in.

And hey, maybe eddy will bust out that multi quote button and reply to direct questions, like I did this morning for probably 45 minutes while I skimmed the thread

[MrToad]

At this point I'm beginning to wonder if you work for EK. You actually believe that EK is "doing the right thing" and that the facts contained in that report actually pertain to the issue that's really happening here? Do us all a favor and go peddle your EK Koolaid elsewhere.

So, now anyone that might take the report produced by a reputable scientific institution into consideration or voice a dissenting opinion is an EK employee undercover?

You're entitled to voice your opinion, but because you're in possession of the truth any dissidents are misinformed, naive or of questionable allegiances?

How is this constructive and civil?

[[XC] Oj101]

So those flaky bits are really just discolouration?