2D vs 3D laptops

[Bolas]

I'm still having trouble thinking through the 3D vs no 3D issue. At a given price point, it seems like you give up a lot of computing power in order to get 3D. For example, at around $2300 (about $2500 including tax), you can get either of these options, configured at www.xoticpc.com:

Sager NP8170 / Clevo P170HM
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Glare Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Glossy Screen (1920x1080)-
- 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2720QM, 2.2-3.3GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache)
- IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- ATI Mobility Radeon™ HD6970 2048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11
- 8,192MB DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS)
- 120GB Intel 510 Series Solid State Drive (SSD2 Serial-ATA III)
- 6X Blue-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card + Bluetooth
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's + Microsoft Office Starter 2010 - Included with OS Purchase
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime -24/7 DOMESTIC Based- Toll Free Telephone Tech Support (Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)
$2,274.00

ASUS G74SX-3DE - PRE ORDER
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 "Matte Type" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Screen (1920x1080) 120Hz 3D Ready w/ 3D Vision Glasses
- Included nVIDIA Wireless 3D Glasses (Bundled with 3D Screen)
- 2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2630QM, 2.0-2.8GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache) - Standard (Does not support DDR3 1600MHz Ram)
- Stock OEM Thermal Compound
- nVidia GeForce GTX 560M 3,072MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11
- 16,384MB (16GB) DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (4GBx4)-
- 120GB OCZ Vertex 3 MAX IOPS Sandforce Solid State Drive (Up to Sequential Read 550MB/s - Write 500MB/s SSD Serial-ATA III)
- 6X Blu-Ray Writer/Reader + 8X DVDRW/CDRW Super Multi Combo Drive- Default
- Internal Bluetooth + EDR
- Built-in 802.11 Wireless B/G/N - Stock Wireless Card
- Asus G Series Matching Backpack made by Targus
- Asus G Series Gaming Mouse
- Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit Pre-Installed + Drivers & Utilities Disk
- 2 Year ASUS GLOBAL Warranty 24/7 Support / 1 Year North America (N.A.) Accidental Coverage (Accidental Requires Registration)
$2,278.00

Given that I'm mostly playing Starcraft II, League of Legends, and Civilization V... how much of a difference in immersion and enjoyment will 3D make? Am I better off with one system or the other? Is there anyone that has experienced any of these games on a 3D system that could advise me what it's like?

I do plan to get a Sprint HTC EVO 3D when it comes out later this month, so I would have a source for 3D photos and videos, which is also a consideration.

If I could get a laptop with dual gpu's and a 3D display, I think I would hold out and save up for that, since my need for a new laptop is not urgent. I wonder if the high end Sager refresh with Sandy Bridge E will support 120Hz displays? Anyone know for sure?

Looking at these two options:

Sager
Pro: better cpu, better gpu, future upgrades easy, could upgrade now for more $$$, minimalist aesthetic
Con: slightly worse ssd, less memory, no Blu-Ray burner, no mouse, ho-hum case, noisier, no backlighting, poor keyboard layout

Asus:
Pro: more memory, Blu-Ray burner, nice case, included mouse, matte screen, 120Hz screen, 3D Vision, best SSD, quiet, backlit keyboard, stealth aesthetic
Con: worse cpu, worse gpu, potentially impossible to upgrade cpu or gpu, mediocre keyboard layout, no support for faster memory (DDR3 1600 MHz)

I'd appreciate any insight into the laptop decision.

[PaganII]

3D projector - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009223 - goes on sale frequently under $500 usd works with both AMD and Nvidia but you get more choice of glasses with AMD
8-12' screen - $20 - blackout cloth from fabric store
Drive it with any computer you like.

Edit: Sorry, I know you were looking for a laptop but the 3D is soooo much better on a large screen and then get any 2D laptop you want. And the projector is still portable if you want to take it on vacation or to a friends house, shine it on the side of your house...

[Bolas]

3D projector - http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16824009223 - goes on sale frequently under $500 usd works with both AMD and Nvidia but you get more choice of glasses with AMD
8-12' screen - $20 - blackout cloth from fabric store
Drive it with any computer you like.

Edit: Sorry, I know you were looking for a laptop but the 3D is soooo much better on a large screen and then get any 2D laptop you want. And the projector is still portable if you want to take it on vacation or to a friends house, shine it on the side of your house...

I've got a friend with a nice projector in his basement. Very fun. I plan to design a room in my next house to hold a projector setup. But the current home doesn't accommodate that so well... too many windows.

Just really looking for a laptop at the moment, though. Got a desktop computer setup that I like and a big screen tv setup that I like, only need the laptop for the rare travel.

[Macadamia]

I'm actually not sure how well the 560M (~GTS450, ~GTS250) will hold up in both FHD+3D (framerate halved).... and ATI's 3D is pretty intuitiveness as a whole still.

Just save the money and get the G74 w/o 3D; the 6970 is great but I heard that the G74 without 3D has Optimus; which actually means pretty good battery life as a good pro in case you ever need to bring it around.

[Bolas]

I'm actually not sure how well the 560M (~GTS450, ~GTS250) will hold up in both FHD+3D (framerate halved).... and ATI's 3D is pretty intuitiveness as a whole still.

Just save the money and get the G74 w/o 3D; the 6970 is great but I heard that the G74 without 3D has Optimus; which actually means pretty good battery life as a good pro in case you ever need to bring it around.

As far as I have heard, neither one has Optimus. But that's not really an important feature to me.

If I wasn't going to get 3D, I would not buy an Asus. Instead, I would buy a computer with one or more 6970's, either Sager (8170) or Alienware (m18x).

[MRip]

Do you really want to sit around with 3d glasses on? How about in public? Seems like a huge pain. I'm not a fan of 3d movies either so maybe it's just me.

[Bolas]

Do you really want to sit around with 3d glasses on? How about in public? Seems like a huge pain. I'm not a fan of 3d movies either so maybe it's just me.

I can play in 2D as well. Glasses are only for when I want the 3D effect. It's probably not necessary, really... kinda gimmicky.

[zanzabar]

if u go 3d then u wont be able to game with it, and u wont be able to output it so it wont be good for movies. then u will also be saddled with a slower gpu as well.

[Bolas]

if u go 3d then u wont be able to game with it, and u wont be able to output it so it wont be good for movies. then u will also be saddled with a slower gpu as well.

I'm actually considering going with a Sager 8170 build with a Nvidia GTX 485m (or 580m) for the gpu, which does not saddle me with a slower gpu but still gives me 3D. It's more expensive, of course.

Or waiting for the next gen Sager to come out with dual GPU's.

But the main thing I need to decide is if 3D matters to me or not. If it doesn't matter, then no reason to wait, I can get a machine that meets my non-3D needs today.

I wouldn't need to output it for it to be good for movies, I could watch the movies on the laptop just fine.

For example, here's one 3D build that doesn't skimp on gpu, cpu, or ssd. It's just more money.


Sager NP8170 / Clevo P170HM
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 120Hz 3D "MatteType" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Screen (1920x1080) - With 1 Pair NVIDIA 3D Glasses (Can only be used NVIDIA 485M)
- Included nVIDIA Wireless 3D Glasses (Bundled with 3D Screen)
- Standard Dead Pixel Policy
- -2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2720QM, 2.2-3.3GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache)
- - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- nVidia GeForce GTX 485M 2,048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 (User Upgradeable)
- No Video Adapter
- ~ 8,192MB DDR3 1600MHz Dual Channel Memory (2 SODIMMS)
- Standard Finish
- ~ 250GB Intel 510 Series Solid State Drive (SSD2 Serial-ATA III)
- ~ Remove 2nd Hard Drive
- HDD Raid Settings - OFF
- ~ 6X Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive
- No Extra Optical Bay Hard Drive Caddy
- No Back Up Hard Drive
- NO External USB Optical Drive
- No Floppy Drive
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- No Back Up Software
- None Standard--
- Intel® Ultimate-N 6300 - 802.11A/B/G/N Wireless LAN Module
- No Network Accessory
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- No TV Tuner
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- No Car Adapter
- None Standard*
- No Dock/Hub/Adapter
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- No External Keyboard or Mouse
- No Notebook Cooler
- No Thanks, Please do not Overclock my system (Overclocking will add 3-6 business days to build time)
- ~Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's + Microsoft Office Starter 2010 - Included with OS Purchase
- No Office Software
- No Software Bundle
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime -24/7 DOMESTIC Based- Toll Free Telephone Tech Support (Labor Warranty through Xotic PC)
Includes FREE Shipping Both Ways for Warranty Repairs
- No Xotic PC Gear
$3,124.00

Sub-Total: $3,124.00

I have to consider the "opportunity cost" of the other things that I could do with the money. Which would I rather have, a 2D laptop for $2300 and a $700 iPad, or a 3D laptop for $3000 and no iPad. For example. So what I really need to do is determine how important 3D is to me, regardless of the price range, so that I don't spend money on something that I won't enjoy. So I'm hoping to find people that have experienced 3D gaming and get their impressions.

[zanzabar]

that system still wont game in 3d, so i dont see the point. ide just get the $1200 asus or msi with a 69xxm or a desktop.

and why get an ipad and a laptop with if instead of a gaming laptop get a portable gaming system like a vita when they are out in a couple of months and more portable laptop, or an asus transformer.

[Bolas]

that system still wont game in 3d, so i dont see the point. ide just get the $1200 asus or msi with a 69xxm or a desktop.

and why get an ipad and a laptop with if instead of a gaming laptop get a portable gaming system like a vita when they are out in a couple of months and more portable laptop, or an asus transformer.

What makes you say it won't game in 3d?

Look at the frame rates for the GTX 485m for 2D games, then cut those frame rates in half and you have the 3D framerates. Very playable for most games at moderate settings and even some games in high settings.

Ipad is for lying in bed and surfing the web before I go to sleep. Or to show movies and games to the offspring on long car trips. But it'll be a gift for my wife, anyways. And her laptop is for work and work only (tax deduction, home office = according to IRS, you have to use it regularly and exclusively for work) so then she could play on the ipad.

[zanzabar]

u need to run about 80fps to game in 3d unless u really like headaches, there are no laptops that will do that with reasonable settings. and i have never seen a game that looked better in 3d that 2d so i would just skip it. but it seams like u want it so then go for it.

[Sparky]

All laptops are 3D. We don't have the technology to make a laptop perfectly flat without any 3rd dimension yet

[mockingbird]

For heaven's sake, go with the Asus. You will be a lot happier with the nVidia than with the Radeon.

[Bolas]

Here's the main choice right now. Sager vs Alienware. 3D vs 2D.

Sager NP8170-S1 / Clevo P170HM
- 17.3" FHD 16:9 120Hz 3D "MatteType" Super Clear Ultra Bright LED Screen (1920x1080) - With 1 Pair NVIDIA 3D Glasses (Can only be used NVIDIA 485M/560M & 580M)
- Included nVIDIA Wireless 3D Glasses (Bundled with 3D Screen)
- -2nd Generation Intel® Core™ i7-2720QM, 2.2-3.3GHz, (32nm, 6MB L3 cache)
- - IC Diamond Thermal Compound - CPU + GPU
- nVidia GeForce GTX 580M 2,048MB PCI-Express GDDR5 DX11 (User Upgradeable)
- ~ 16,384MB DDR3 1333MHz Dual Channel Memory (4 SODIMMS)~
- ~ 250GB Intel 510 Series Solid State Drive (SSD2 Serial-ATA III)
- ~ 6X Blu-Ray Read/8X DVDRW Super Multi Combo Drive - Special
- Internal 7-in-1 Card Reader (MS/MS Pro/MS Duo/MS Pro Duo/SD/Mini-SD/MMC/RS)
- Bigfoot Networks Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 (3x3)-
- Built in 2.0 Megapixel Camera
- Sound Blaster Compatible 3D Audio - Included
- Basic Black Business Case - Included
- Smart Li-ion Battery (8-Cell)
- Integrated Fingerprint Reader
- ~Windows 7 Home Premium 64-Bit Installed (64&32-Bit CD Included) w/ Drivers & Utilities CD's + Microsoft Office Starter 2010 - Included with OS Purchase
- 3 Year Labor* 1 Year Parts Warranty Lifetime -24/7 DOMESTIC Based- Toll Free Telephone Tech Support (Labor Warranty through Xotic PC) Includes FREE Shipping Both Ways for Warranty Repairs
$3,084.00




Alienware M18x

PROCESSOR Intel® Core™ i7 2720QM 2.2GHz (3.3GHz w/Turbo Boost, 6MB Cache)
OPERATING SYSTEM Genuine Windows® 7 Home Premium, 64bit
MEMORY 4GB Dual Channel DDR3 at 1333MHz (2DIMMS)
VIDEO CARD Dual 2GB GDDR5 AMD Radeon HD 6990M AMD CrossFireX
HARD DRIVE 320GB 7200RPM SATA 3Gb/s
WIRELESS + BLUETOOTH Killer™ Wireless-N 1103 a/g/n 3x3 MIMO for Gaming & Video and Bluetooth 3.0
INTERNAL OPTICAL DRIVE Slot-Loading Dual Layer Blu-ray Reader (BR-ROM, DVD+-RW, CD-RW)
SYSTEM COLOR Space Black Anodized Aluminum
ALIENFX COLOR Mars Red
OS CUSTOMIZATION Alien Red Glyphs
GEAR STORE Alienware Orion M18x Backpack - TSA Friendly
WARRANTY AND SERVICE 1 Year Basic Plan
LCD PANEL 18.4-inch WideFHD 1920 x 1080 WLED
SOUND OPTIONS Internal High-Definition 5.1 Surround Sound Audio
NAMEPLATE Standard Nameplate
POWER ADAPTERS Alienware M18x 330W A/C Adapter
$2,998.99 (subtotal)

Then I'd want to get this from Newegg to fix up the Alienware.

Kingston HyperX 8GB (4 x 4GB) 204-Pin DDR3 SO-DIMM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Laptop Memory Model KHX1600C9S3K2/8GX
Item #: N82E16820104230
Return Policy: Memory Standard Return Policy
$25.00 Mail-in Rebate (per pair)
$189.98 subtotal, $149.98 after rebates.

Intel 510 Series (Elm Crest) SSDSC2MH120A2K5 2.5" 120GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)
Item #: N82E16820167042
Return Policy: Limited Replacement Only Return Policy
Protect Your Investment (expand for options)
$40.00 Mail-in Rebate Card
$269.00 subtotal, $229 after rebates

Total: $3377.97

So it comes down to... do I want the Sager with the larger SSD, the 3D matte display, the fingerprint reader, the Nvidia graphics, the superior customer service, the pre-installed memory and SSD, and the lower power consumption... or do I want the Alienware with the dual Radeon GPU's, the larger screen, and the backlit keyboard, but only 2D display.

Comments and suggestions welcome.