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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #5301
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by canthearu View Post
    The 830 is also twice the size of the Plextor

    And the OCZ drives tended to start dieing after a couple of hundred erase block failures, the samsung is only on 40.

    Edit: The plextor reached almost 6 million reallocated sectors before failing outright.

    http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...=1#post5117724
    The Plextor had 15 read failures, the 830 now has 16.

  2. #5302
    Xtreme Member Gilgamesh's Avatar
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    Sorry for OT, but Anandtech tested Intel 335 240GB (IMFT 20nm sync):
    http://www.anandtech.com/show/6388/i...240gb-review/2

    "In a few days, I managed to write a total of 37.8TB to the NAND and during that time, the MWI had dropped from 92 to 79. In other words, I used up 13% of the drive's available P/E cycles. This is far from being good news. Based on the data I gathered, the MWI would hit 0 after around 250TB of NAND writes, which translates to less than 1,000 P/E cycles."



    preliminary endurance test is "shocking"

    I hope that is just only a bugged firmware.
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  3. #5303
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    1327.31TB Host writes 43493397*32)
    Reallocated sectors : 05 768 -
    Available Reserved Space : E8 86 (86)
    POH 11971
    MD5 OK

    31.76MiB/s on avg (~333 hours)

    --

    As for the 335, even if the figures are correct it'll still do ~200++TiB. ("normal" users will have updated their drives long before one hits 50TiB)

    I expect there'll be a few ~20nm drives thrown into the test shortly, a 335 might be one of them.
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  4. #5304
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    Intel's not having an easy time with their 20NM parts. I wouldn't be surprised if <1000 P/E cycles was the case, maybe 1500.

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  5. #5305
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Based on the data I gathered, the MWI would hit 0 after around 250TB of NAND writes, which translates to less than 1,000 P/E cycles.

    I hope that is just only a bugged firmware.
    I dunno, so far as I can tell, manufacturers set MWI completely arbitrarily. You'll notice the drive used up exactly no reserved space in that time. It could still easily hit 3k P/E cycles, but Intel certianly seems to have set MWI very conservatively on those drives.

  6. #5306
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Perhaps it's a warranty consideration? I mean, the 830 exhausted its MWI 180 days ago. It's written 4.5 more petabytes since then, so while Anand's statement doesnt fill me with confidence, it wont keep me up at night. But if they set the warranty length by MWI... It makes more sense. You also have to think that keeping 20nm flash within error specs is hard after a little bit of wear, so the reduction in MWI could be to keep uBER in check. The enterprise spec from JEDEC is 10^16, I don't know what the consumer spec is, but maybe it goes out of spec after a few thousand PE cycles (and isn't so much an endurance issue).


    ---------

    I actually read the review, and I think there is merely something wrong with the FW. I've had two drives both ship with MWI less than 100. In one case it was FW, and in another it was just caused by reallocations out of the box.
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-29-2012 at 10:10 PM.

  7. #5307
    Xtreme Member Gilgamesh's Avatar
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    Intel ssd warranty don't cover MWI to 1 on OEM version.

    "Any Product the usage of which has reached its write endurance limit, as measured by the SMART attribute (E9) “Media
    Wear-out Indicator” value of “1”, as set forth above."

    On Boxed there isn't warranty limitation.

    Perhaps Intel want preserve 335 "cheap" series, but I think on bugged firmware.

    OT closed:
    Last edited by Gilgamesh; 10-30-2012 at 12:49 AM.
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  8. #5308
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Samsung 830 256GB Day 223

    (GiB) 5,559,835
    (TiB) 5,429
    (PiB) 5.33


    (Avg) 298.76 MB/s over the past 2500+ hours

    (B1) Wear Leveling Count: 24,037

    (B6) Erase Fail Count: 14
    (B6) Runtime Bad Block Count: 37
    (05) Reallocated Sectors: 151552

    (POH) 5435


    -------------------

    Reallocations have been growing steadily over the past week, one every few hours.

  9. #5309
    Xtreme Member Zaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Intel ssd warranty don't cover MWI to 1 on OEM version.

    On Boxed there isn't warranty limitation.
    So that's the difference between boxed and oem...had I known, I'd have paid the extra few bucks for that little extra piece of mind.
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  10. #5310
    Xtreme Member Zaxx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gilgamesh View Post
    Intel ssd warranty don't cover MWI to 1 on OEM version.

    On Boxed there isn't warranty limitation.
    So that's the difference between boxed and oem...had I known, I'd have paid the extra few bucks for that little extra piece of mind.
    'Best Bang For The Buck' Build - CM Storm Sniper - CM V8 GTS HSF
    2500K @ 4.5GHz 24/7 - Asus P8Z68-V Pro Gen3 - GSkill 2x4GB DDR3-2400 C10
    Sapphire Vapor-X 7770 OC Edition - PC Power & Cooling Silencer MkIII 600W
    Boot: 2x 64GB SuperSSpeed S301 SLC Raid 0 Work: Intel 520 120GB
    Storage: Crucial M500 1TB - Ocz Vertex 4 128GB - 4x 50GB Ocz Vertex 2
    HDDs: 2 x 1TB WD RE4 Raid0 - Ext.Backup: 2 x 1.5TB WD Blacks Raid 1

  11. #5311
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxx View Post
    So that's the difference between boxed and oem...had I known, I'd have paid the extra few bucks for that little extra piece of mind.
    I ended up buying a 120GB Intel 320 OEM, and the warranty on that was 1 year and not five. Totally busted if you ask me, but I suppose I bear most of the blame.

  12. #5312
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Samsung 830 256GB Day 225

    (GiB) 5,601,463
    (TiB) 5,155
    (PiB) 5.37


    (Avg) 298.77 MB/s over the past 2000+ hours

    (B1) Wear Leveling Count: 24,216

    (B5) Program Fail Count: 0
    (B6) Erase Fail Count: 14
    (B7) Runtime Bad Block Count: 41
    (05) Reallocated Sectors: 167936

    Read Failures: 27

    (POH) 5475


    -------------------
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-01-2012 at 06:39 AM.

  13. #5313
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    Here are todays update:

    m4
    1882.8672 TiB
    7727 hours
    Avg speed 73.79 MiB/s.
    AD 63 to 44
    P/E 32412
    C3 48482335 to 104131897
    01 13329 to 30726 (1)
    CE 90
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-E 64GB
    1.25 PiB
    4192-30=4162 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 173 to 255 to 43
    Available Reserved space: 71 to 67
    MWI= 92 to 91
    MD5 =OK
    79.21 MiB/s on avg


    Mtron Pro 7025 32GB
    Paused until new firmware is updated.

    OCZ Vertex 1 120GB
    Will start after an update to the latest firmware.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  14. #5314
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Samsung 830 256GB Day 228

    (GiB) 5,687,048
    (TiB) 5,553
    (PiB) 5.45


    (Avg) 298.86 MB/s over the past 2000+ hours

    (B1) Wear Leveling Count: 25,586

    (B5) Program Fail Count: 0
    (B6) Erase Fail Count: 14
    (B7) Runtime Bad Block Count: 59
    (05) Reallocated Sectors: 167936

    Read Failures: 45

    (POH) 5557


    -------------------

  15. #5315
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    Here are todays update:

    m4
    1897.9654 TiB
    7789 hours
    Avg speed 73.67 MiB/s.
    AD 44 TO 35
    P/E 32674
    C3 104131897 to 136440144
    01 30726 to 41196 (1)
    CE 90
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-E 64GB
    1.26 PiB
    4253-30=4223 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 43 to 85
    Available Reserved space: 67 to 66
    MWI= 91
    MD5 =OK
    79.03 MiB/s on avg


    Mtron Pro 7025 32GB
    Paused until new firmware is updated.

    OCZ Vertex 1 120GB
    Will start after an update to the latest firmware.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  16. #5316
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Samsung 830 256GB Day 230

    (GiB) 5,732,148
    (TiB) 5,597
    (PiB) 5.50


    (Avg) 298.86 MB/s over the past 2000+ hours

    (B1) Wear Leveling Count: 24,781

    (B5) Program Fail Count: 0
    (B6) Erase Fail Count: 15
    (B7) Runtime Bad Block Count: 68
    (05) Reallocated Sectors: 278528

    Read Failures: 53

    (POH) 5600

    -------------------

    The 830 is continuing to fail blocks predictably and steadily, which is reassuring to see.

  17. #5317
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    Is the 830 going to hit 6PB at this block failure rate?

    Incidentally, looks like a typo on the WLC number...

  18. #5318
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    When write amplification is taken into account, 24K Write Cycles sounds right. At 5.5PiB write, that is 22528 WLC. But that assumes a perfect 1.0 write amp. rate, which only a few SSDs can accomplish using compression (SandForce chips, I think). If we assume that 24781 WLC is the entire drive, then the drive has has 6.05 PiB written. 6.05 / 5.5 is a write amplification rate of ~ 1.1 Not too bad!
    Last edited by vpr5703; 11-06-2012 at 01:49 PM.

  19. #5319
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gordo View Post
    Is the 830 going to hit 6PB at this block failure rate?

    Incidentally, looks like a typo on the WLC number...
    I believe so, but maybe not by much. There was a typo in the last update's WLC, this one is right. Incidentally, because the read and write failures are so steady and predictable, I think it bodes well for 6PB.

    Quote Originally Posted by vpr5703 View Post
    When write amplification is taken into account, 24K Write Cycles sounds right. At 5.5PiB write, that is 22528 WLC. But that assumes a perfect 1.0 write amp. rate, which only a few SSDs can accomplish using compression (SandForce chips, I think). If we assume that 24781 WLC is the entire drive, then the drive has has 6.05 PiB written. 6.05 / 5.5 is a write amplification rate of ~ 1.1 Not too bad!
    The WLC is probably accurate for the whole drive, but most WLCs are usually for just a single device/channel/etc. I figured WA at 1.1 -- if you take the LBA written and divide it by WLC you get about 231GB written per PE cycle. lBA writes are ahead of ASU by about 15GB (I "lost" some writes for about 14 hours one day).

  20. #5320
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    And Since it came up, it looks like SF drives using non-2281 controllers (ones with better SMART data) have another attribute that shows GB erased in addition to host and raw writes. I'll have to perform some more in depth analysis, but it looks like the actual WA for a mostly incompressible workload is significantly higher than the host/raw number would indicate.

  21. #5321
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    Here are todays update:

    m4
    1909.4236 TiB
    7789 hours
    Avg speed 73.58 MiB/s.
    AD 35 to 29
    P/E 32873
    C3 136440144 to 172698757
    01 41196 to 54019 (1)
    CE 90
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-E 64GB
    1.27 PiB
    4299-30=4269 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 85 to 130
    Available Reserved space: 66 to 65
    MWI= 91
    MD5 =OK
    78.89 MiB/s on avg


    Mtron Pro 7025 32GB
    Paused until new firmware is updated.

    OCZ Vertex 1 120GB
    Will start after an update to the latest firmware.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  22. #5322
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    Here are todays update:

    m4
    1921.2473 TiB
    7884 hours
    Avg speed 73.46 MiB/s.
    AD 29 to 23
    P/E 33079
    C3 172698757 to 221068763
    01 54019 72375 (1)
    CE 90
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-E 64GB
    1.29 PiB
    4348-30=4318 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 130 to 183
    Available Reserved space: 65 to 63
    MWI= 91
    MD5 =OK
    78.72 MiB/s on avg


    Mtron Pro 7025 32GB
    Paused until new firmware is updated.

    OCZ Vertex 1 120GB
    Will start after an update to the latest firmware.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  23. #5323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher View Post
    I believe so, but maybe not by much. There was a typo in the last update's WLC, this one is right. Incidentally, because the read and write failures are so steady and predictable, I think it bodes well for 6PB.



    The WLC is probably accurate for the whole drive, but most WLCs are usually for just a single device/channel/etc. I figured WA at 1.1 -- if you take the LBA written and divide it by WLC you get about 231GB written per PE cycle. lBA writes are ahead of ASU by about 15GB (I "lost" some writes for about 14 hours one day).
    That is still pretty good, considering. I like where this drive is going. Gives me lots of hope (providing that my device doesn't bite the dust due to flash failure) that my drive will outlast my laptop.

  24. #5324
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    1348.84TB Host writes 44198881*32)
    Reallocated sectors : 05 768 -
    Available Reserved Space : E8 86 (86)
    POH 12257
    MD5 OK

    32.02MiB/s on avg (~194 hours)

    --
    -
    Hardware:

  25. #5325
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    Here are todays update:

    m4
    1927.2346 TiB
    7908 hours
    Avg speed 73.42 MiB/s.
    AD 23 to 18.
    P/E 33183
    C3 221068763 to 247252828
    01 72375 to 82343 (1)
    CE 90
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-E 64GB
    1.29 PiB
    4372-30=4342 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 183 to 205
    Available Reserved space: 63 to 62
    MWI= 91
    MD5 =OK
    78.72 MiB/s on avg


    Mtron Pro 7025 32GB
    Paused until new firmware is updated.

    OCZ Vertex 1 120GB
    Will start after an update to the latest firmware.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

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