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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #2651
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    @B.A.T
    So an FX-8150 for the Endurance test?

    @Christopher
    Did you notice the sale at Link

    SnB-E
    I've ordered the MB but have yet to decide on the CPU
    Last edited by Anvil; 11-14-2011 at 02:24 PM.
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  2. #2652
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Anvil,

    I've been toying with the idea of picking up a Vertex LE. They're(well, the 100 anyway) actually a lot cheaper some where else... Actually, I got the Vertex Turbo 120 instead just because I liked the M225 "Turbo" so much.

    You think they've got lifetime throttling?
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-14-2011 at 02:43 PM.

  3. #2653
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    I'm pretty sure they have Lifetime Throttling, still they are about the cheapest 34nm NAND you can get so they should be OK for normal usage.
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  4. #2654
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    It was for my main rig and at the moment I got the endurance test running from it so, yeah
    I also updated my folding rig and I'm thinking of moving both ssd to that one instead.

    And of course I ordrered another M4 64GB It's demo/returned but for 680,- NOK I couldn't resist
    I haven't decided what to do with it but maybe data retention or a rerun of the endurance test.....
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  5. #2655
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I'm still thinking about running the M4 64GB I have. It's only used 3PE cycles, and I was thinking about how I would run it. Maybe overprovisioned? Maybe I could launch my testing rig into space for some cosmic ray testing...

    So many options!

    I haven't decided what I'm going to do yet, but I figured there should be at least one M4 in the test at all times.



    Does NOK stand for Norwegian Okra?

    You don't use slimy vegetables for currency do you??

    After looking in to how much some of these drives are in Norway, I'm glad I live in the land of cheap SSDs.

    Cheap SSDs are the greatest thing ever.
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-14-2011 at 03:11 PM.

  6. #2656
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    Cosmic ray testing sounds like a lot of fun, you can take care of that aspect
    Our currency is Kroner and NOK stands for NOrwegian Kroner. 1USD=5,7 NOK
    The M4 64GB cost 769 NOK = 134 USD (that is including VAT of 25%) I think newegg have the same one for 115USD.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  7. #2657
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I know what NOK stands for

    I forget about the VAT every time.

    That explains it.



    The M4 has been getting more and more expensive here for some reason. I bought my M4 64 for $89 with shipping a few months back. Now the cheapest I've seen it it recently is $109 + shipping. The 128 could be found for as little as $165 for a time, now it's as expensive as the Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 120. And the Intel 510 is just stupid expensive now, especially compared to much cheaper drives. For the price of the 120 510 you can almost get an Agility 3 240. G1 and G2 Intel drives were going inexpensively on Ebay a few weeks ago, now they're all absurdly priced. I got a X25 E 32GB for $88 (I think that's somewhere around 500 NOK). Now when you can find them, they're four times that much. Pricing might be volatile for new drives, but used drives fluctuate constantly. I've bought 4 used Intel drives, and not one of them had more than 300GB of host writes on it. I've been looking at getting some more, but all the value is gone.
    Last edited by Christopher; 11-14-2011 at 04:27 PM.

  8. #2658
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    Buying a used SSD from anyone but us here in the endurance thread is a very low risk. They are hardly written to and with no moving parts to wear down the only problem are issues from production and you got warranties for that

    Here are some ex from Norway
    M4 64GB


    M4 128GB


    Intel 510 120GB


    Intel 320 120GB


    Vertex 3 MI 120GB
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  9. #2659
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A.T View Post
    Buying a used SSD from anyone but us here in the endurance thread is a very low risk. They are hardly written to
    Although I'd want to get a guarantee that it has at least X% of its manufacturer specified erase cycles left, and if I got it and SMART indicated otherwise, I would be returning it.

  10. #2660
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    Low risk doesn't mean stupid A screenshot of CDI is never wrong when buying used.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  11. #2661
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I've had good luck buying used INTEL drives. For some reason, none of the 4 drive purchased a different times from different people had more than a few hundred hours, host writes, or power cycles. I'd be wary of buying used drives of other makes (but that's just my opinion). I can't say why my cross section of auction purchases have been almost new, but if a guy's splitting up his 8 drive array its a safe bet they haven't been thrashed too much (sometimes? Maybe stay away from Computurd's). If I can return the drive it makes me feel better about buying it.

    I wouldn't want to buy a SF or Indilinx drive from a stranger, especially out of warranty. Especially OCZ Indilinxes as you can dflash them, misrepresenting actual writes and other factors when you get show some SMART data. Intel drives are just a safer bet when buying used. If you're buying second hand from a friend or someone you know, it's different.

    I even opened up the drives when I got them to make sure they weren't some kinda Communist Chinese forgeries. Not sure how you make a fake X25-M, but I'm not taking any chances. Damn Communists and their counterfeit products!

    I had a good run on Ebay, but mainly I just see a lot of absurdly high prices now. Occasionally, you'll see someone with an SSDlife/CDI shot on the auction site, but that's pretty rare.

  12. #2662
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I think what I'm trying to say is, if you're going to buy a used SSD from a stranger, drink as much Tequila as you can first. It will make things easier.

  13. #2663
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    Sounds like a good advice
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  14. #2664
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    478.91TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    33.37MiB/s on avg (~58 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 95/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 56 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 375057 (Raw writes) ->366TiB
    F1 499220 (Host writes) ->488TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.60MiB/s on avg (~58 hours)

    power on hours : 1446

    B1 has dropped from 57 to 56.

    It's getting closer to the first retention tests.
    -
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  15. #2665
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Oops, never mind me posting this
    Last edited by bluestang; 11-15-2011 at 07:26 AM. Reason: Deleted initial post.
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  16. #2666
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestang View Post
    Have you guys thought about RMA'ing your fried drives?
    bluestang: Where is my daily dose of Vertex Turbo update?...
    Last edited by devsk; 11-15-2011 at 08:57 AM.

  17. #2667
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    768.91 TiB (845.42 TB) total
    1992 hrs (Torture), 2810 hrs (Power-On)
    15082 Raw Wear
    118.42 MB/s avg for the last 20.87 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count (Realloc Sectors) 14 to 15.
    1=Bnk 6/Blk 2406
    2=Bnk 3/Blk 3925
    3=Bnk 0/Blk 1766
    4=Bnk 0/Blk 829
    5=Bnk 4/Blk 3191
    6=Bnk 7/Blk 937
    7=Bnk 7/Blk 1980
    8=Bnk 7/Blk 442
    9=Bnk 7/Blk 700
    10=Bnk 2/Blk 1066
    11=Bnk 7/Blck 85
    12=Bnk 4/Blk 3192
    13=Bnk 7/Blk 280
    14=Bnk 3/Blk 2375
    15=Bnk 7/Blk 768

    Bank 7 has 7 bad Blocks now.
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  18. #2668
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestang View Post
    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    768.91 TiB (845.42 TB) total
    That's past the last known M4 state. Awesome!

  19. #2669
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60 update, Day 56
    FW 3.3.2


    The Mushkin is still dead.


    Still very sad about it too.

    Mushkin, that was the most famous 60GB SF2281 in the world!!

  20. #2670
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    Hi guys, long time no see.

    It's a great thread you have here. I remember i wanted to test something like this back in '09, but the cost of SSDs then put it well outside what i could do.

    I'm using this as a reference to SSDs being able to handle their rated 3000-5000 cycles in a report i'm writing. I've started a computer engineer degree in embedded systems now.

    I tried donating one of my old Mtrons to BAT for endurance testing, but it was dead. Gonna try to RMA it since it's 3 years old but has a 5 year server warranty. The second Mtron of the pair still lives and does it's daily duty as boot drive in my little sisters laptop.

    I've been thinking of starting another SSD project looking at sustained random write (4KB QD32) drop-off rate as a function of time and spare area (possibly also 10,25,50,75,90,100 % duty-cycles to allow some GC and compare effectiveness of it) for different SSDs. Have you guys done that while i've been away? If not, would you be interrested?
    Last edited by GullLars; 11-15-2011 at 11:38 AM.

  21. #2671
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    Nice to see you gullars!

    if i had time and gear to put towards the testing, i would

    I will definitely read and learn along with you guys though !
    "Lurking" Since 1977


    Jesus Saves, God Backs-Up
    *I come to the news section to ban people, not read complaints.*-[XC]Gomeler
    Don't believe Squish, his hardware does control him!

  22. #2672
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    GullLars,

    I remember your comments on AnandTech's X25-V RAID 0 review... they were really illuminating at the time. It's why I got a pair of X25-Vs in the first place... at least, I'm really sure that's where I know GullLars from. Maybe I imagined that.

    Welcome back to the fold!



    I don't know how up to date you are on this thread, but some of the SandForce drives had lifetime throttling, limiting their writes over the course of a year for longevity. Had the SandForce 2281 drive I ran (which died unexpectedly a few days ago) had Lifetime Throttling, I was planning on doing full span 4K writes as it would have surely come in under the throttling speed limit (maybe? never got that far). But that kind of testing really falls under the domain of enterprise-style testing. Though as it's turning out, just writing as fast as the drive can for weeks on end has some side effects you wouldn't experience if the writes were spread out over the span of a normal Consumer-based usage life.

  23. #2673
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    Quote Originally Posted by GullLars View Post
    I've been thinking of starting another SSD project looking at sustained random write (4KB QD32) drop-off rate as a function of time and spare area (possibly also 10,25,50,75,90,100 % duty-cycles to allow some GC and compare effectiveness of it) for different SSDs. Have you guys done that while i've been away? If not, would you be interrested?
    That would be very interesting to see. If you are not already familiar with it, you may want to review the SNIA documents on SSD test procedures, since they should apply directly to the test you have described:

    http://www.snia.org/tech_activities/..._standards/pts

  24. #2674
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    Todays update:
    Kingston V+100
    238.8913 TiB
    957 hours
    Avg speed 76.06 MiB/s
    AD still 1.
    168= 0 to 1 (SATA PHY Error Count)
    P/E?
    MD5 OK.
    Reallocated sectors : 00


    Intel X25-M G1 80GB
    50,7363 TiB
    18913 hours
    Reallocated sectors : 00
    MWI=15 to 07
    MD5 =6 mismatches but OK after an SE.
    49.16 MiB/s on avg
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  25. #2675
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GullLars View Post
    Hi guys, long time no see.
    ...
    I've been thinking of starting another SSD project looking at sustained random write (4KB QD32) drop-off rate as a function of time and spare area (possibly also 10,25,50,75,90,100 % duty-cycles to allow some GC and compare effectiveness of it) for different SSDs. Have you guys done that while i've been away? If not, would you be interrested?
    Hi GullLars!

    Ao1's been doing some initial testing at QD1 (full span, spare area), there is a separate thread for that. Link

    It is indeed interesting!
    I'm sure there is interest for more on this, a lot more.

    --

    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    480.27TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 05 12
    Available Reserved Space : E8 99

    MD5 OK

    33.23MiB/s on avg (~70 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 84/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 55 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 10 (SSD Life left)
    E9 378492 (Raw writes) ->370TiB
    F1 503792 (Host writes) ->492TiB

    MD5 OK

    106.59MiB/s on avg (~70 hours)

    power on hours : 1459

    B1 has dropped from 56 to 55.
    -
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