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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #2326
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    412.07TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 12

    MD5 OK

    33.30MiB/s on avg (~71 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 82/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 76 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 44 (SSD Life left)
    E9 215415 (Raw writes)
    F1 286886 (Host writes)

    106.19MiB/s on avg (~71 hours)

    power on hours : 845

    It's been 3 days without issues, I'm almost convinced that the 1.3.2 fw is what made the drive stop failing.
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  2. #2327
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    If the firmware update from sandforce fixed the bsod/hang/disconnect problem, that is great news
    Then you guys finally can get some writing done.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  3. #2328
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    I'm not sure that it is the new fw on the Corsair and they won't tell, I guess we'll know in a few days.

    Anyways, no disconnects since the 4th of October, that's 18 days and about 140TB of host writes ago.
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  4. #2329
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    You'll pass 1 PiB within 3 mnd then
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  5. #2330
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I can try the standard SF firmware equivalent of 1.3.2 which is 3.3.0. I've been reluctant to upgrade, but I'll give it a shot tonight.

    I did get a freeze and blue screen with the Mushkin as the system drive, but I think it was me trying to use the system and install some drivers while endurance testing.


    B.A.T.,

    The great thing about SB processors is that they all idle around the same. A 2600K and the lowest-end dual core Celeron 2.4 G530 pretty much use the same power at idle. For a while, my 2500K was running at it's lowest idle frequency for about 15 hrs (on accident, through some Asus power saving software) and I didn't even notice. Both of my systems now are virtually silent (tiny apartment + loud system = sleepless nights), and so I'm thinking about future plans for another drive to test.
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-21-2011 at 03:47 PM.

  6. #2331
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    The Force 3 is set to idle for the night, will resume tomorrow morning.

    Current status
    05 2
    B1 77
    E6 100
    E7 44
    E9 216182
    F1 287909
    Power on hours 848
    -
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  7. #2332
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60 Update, Day 30

    05 2
    Retired Block Count

    B1 25
    Wear Range Delta

    F1 284182
    Host Writes

    E9 219916
    NAND Writes

    E6 100
    Life Curve

    E7 10
    Life Left

    Average 128.85MB/s Avg
    Intel RST drivers, Biostar TH67+ Celeron G530

    688 Hours Work (24hrs since the last update)
    Time 28 days 16 hours

    10 GiB Minimum Free Space
    Mushkin Day 30.JPG

    To date, the Mushkin has used the same 3.2.0 FW. I'm going to upgrade tomorrow I think.

  8. #2333
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    That is AS-SSD access time, which is measured with 512B IOs, not 4KiB.
    Yup, but i feel that it is telling of latency regardless. Main reason I linked the 4K from the other site is that they were actually using true 4K results, which is rare with those drives unfortunately. The V3 writes are a bit better though, nice point.

    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    You have to be careful with Tom's IOMeter data. Some of the data in their reviews is labeled as QD1, but it really is not (for example, they give 100+ MB/s 4KB QD1 reads, which is absurd). I think the problem is that they set IOMeter for QD1 but also start up 4 or 8 or more worker threads. Each worker thread may only let one IO queue up, but since the worker threads are submitting IOs in parallel, the queue fills up higher than 1 anyway. I think the only thing that should be labeled QD1 is when there is only one worker submitting IOs, and it limits its queue depth to 1.
    i noticed that with his link. Again, hard to find Low QD numbers for SF. weird.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    I don't think the have realized how bad/wrong those iometer test are.
    Iirc it was the workstation, web and server test that were the worst.

    They should update those test to show the actual number of outstanding IO's. (workers * outstanding IO's)
    yes horrible. i was thoroughly confused when reading some of those results.
    "Lurking" Since 1977


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  9. #2334
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    413.51TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 12

    MD5 OK

    33.16MiB/s on avg (~83 hours)

    System up-time 83.5 hours

    --

    No movement on the Force 3 Wear Range Delta, still at 77.

    About to restart the test.
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  10. #2335
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    523.26TB. 6977 reallocated sectors. Max speed down to 41mb/s.

    It is interesting that once the reserve space got to 1, the OS stopped complaining about the imminent failure of the SSD...

  11. #2336
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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Hertz View Post
    523.26TB. 6977 reallocated sectors. Max speed down to 41mb/s.

    It is interesting that once the reserve space got to 1, the OS stopped complaining about the imminent failure of the SSD...
    Based on what happened with the Samsung, I wonder if it would be worth trying a power-off intermission at this point. Say, power the SSD off for a week and see if it still works and MD5 checks after that time, before continuing the writes.

    One thing that would have been nice to know about the Samsung is how much I could have written to it before its unpowered data retention went down to some amount (say, a week or a month). I'm guessing I wrote so much to it that the unpowered data retention was less than a week, maybe even only a couple days. For practical purposes, I'd think the minimum data retention anyone would want to risk would be a week or so. In that case, the amount that can be written to the SSD is probably going to be less than the amount that we measure when we write until we start getting write errors....

  12. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by One_Hertz View Post
    523.26TB. 6977 reallocated sectors. Max speed down to 41mb/s.

    It is interesting that once the reserve space got to 1, the OS stopped complaining about the imminent failure of the SSD...
    I got some of the data from last posts and I made some simple statistics:

    TB Reallocated sectors Average reallocated sectors/TB
    491,4 4904
    500,71 5478 61,65413534
    502,35 5588 67,07317073
    511 6207 71,56069364
    516 6556 69,8
    523,26 6977 57,98898072

    Seems reallocations are slowing... It might be yet another stabilization around some certain value

  13. #2338
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    Todays update:
    m4
    730.6351 TiB
    2618 hours
    Avg speed 89.23 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 194 to 190.
    P/E 12664.
    Value 01 (raw read error rate) has changed from 10 to 11.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors
    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111022-1959-3.pngM4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111022-1959-2.png

    Kingston V+100:
    Will be online again from monday.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  14. #2339
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    414.92B Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 12

    MD5 OK

    36.35MiB/s on avg (~11 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 92/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 79 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 43 (SSD Life left)
    E9 219382 (Raw writes)
    F1 292169 (Host writes)

    106.89MiB/s on avg (~11 hours)

    power on hours : 880

    Idling for 10 hours made no difference at all, Wear Range Delta is still increasing.
    I'll move all files to another drive and then back again just to see what happens. (no cleaning or formatting)
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  15. #2340
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Anvil,

    I think that deleting everything off the Force 3 and then putting it back won't make much of a difference in WRDelta.

    Incidentally, the Mushkin peaked at 26 a couple days ago, and now is on it's way back down (it's currently at 21). If history is any indication, it should drop back down to 10 or 11, 12 eventually.

    I haven't done moved the files back and forth, and I've not secure erased the drive. I have deleted the Mushkin and then performed fresh Windows installs on three separate occasions. That didn't seem to change anything either.

  16. #2341
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    It remained at 79 throughout the move (from and to) but during the first loop it dropped to 78

    Just out of curiosity
    There are 94460 files on the drive, it took ~40 minutes to move the data to an HDD, it took 18 minutes to move it back.

    Also, the first loop was pretty slow, looks like avg speed is almost back to normal.
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  17. #2342
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    WRD will often go up or down frequently. I guessed that the Mushkin would peak, then drop again, and so far that looks to be the case, but nothing would really surprise me. Lots of the drive's behavior is inexplicable, but I will say that Win7 installs from a USB key are insanely fast on the Chronos D.

  18. #2343
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60 Update, Day 31

    05 2
    Retired Block Count

    B1 20 Down from 25
    Wear Range Delta

    F1 294589
    Host Writes

    E9 227218
    NAND Writes

    E6 100
    Life Curve

    E7 10
    Life Left

    Average 128.48MB/s Avg
    MSAHCI drivers, Asus M4g-z

    712 Hours Work
    Time 29 days 16 hours

    11 GiB Minimum Free Space

    Mushkin Day 31.JPG

    I could't be happier with the new Celeron/H67 setup. I have the case in my TV stand/component rack and connected to the TV via DVI->HDMI, so I can just switch inputs on the TV so see what's going on. But then I discovered this awesome remote desktop application for WebOS and my HP TouchPad (Splashtop Remote for WebOS/iOS/Android). It's works great, and I can do almost anything from it. I bought a TouchPad when they were $99 in the HP firesale and didn't have too much to do with it until now. I just keep the TP over by my main system so I can either see the system itself or have the TP to check in on the endurance rig. Of course, it's not as big of a deal if you're using a SSD that doesn't crash when you look at it wrong.
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-22-2011 at 04:35 PM.

  19. #2344
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    It remained at 79 throughout the move (from and to) but during the first loop it dropped to 78

    Just out of curiosity
    There are 94460 files on the drive, it took ~40 minutes to move the data to an HDD, it took 18 minutes to move it back.

    Also, the first loop was pretty slow, looks like avg speed is almost back to normal.
    Interesting. So based on observations from your drive and SymbiosVyse’s drive it seems that SF drives do not rotate static data, rather they rely on the user to change the static data, at which point they then try to limit wear on the most worn blocks.

    Christopher, your drive seems to be an exception. Have you at any stage removed the static data?

  20. #2345
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    Todays update:
    m4
    737.2672 TiB
    2637 hours
    Avg speed 89.22 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 190 to 187.
    P/E 12773.
    Value 01 (raw read error rate) has changed from 11 to 15.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors
    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111023-1738-3.pngM4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111023-1738-2.png

    Kingston V+100:
    Will be online again from monday.

    Another thing I've been aware of during the last couple of updates are the strange increase of value 195. According to Micron that value is not described. Wikipedia tells me this:
    195 0xC3 Hardware ECC Recovered N/A (Vendor specific raw value.) The raw value has different structure for different vendors and is often not meaningful as a decimal number.
    Link

    I'm not able to find anymore useful data on this so any help from you would be great
    Last edited by B.A.T; 10-23-2011 at 11:11 AM.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  21. #2346
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Ao1,

    Yes, I've removed the static data 3 times by way of deleting the volume, then reinstalling windows.



    I had another TRIM/File delete related crash just a few minutes ago. I should have left it the way it was when I had the problem eliminated.

    Using the Chronos as the boot drive leaves it vulnerable to more problems in my estimation.

    Luckily I watched it happen so I got the system restarted immediately and back up and running.

    Two days ago WRD was at 26, now it's down to 17 again. If you were graphing Wear Range Delta (and Ao1 is) you'd see two peaks, then valleys down at 10,11,12 or so.


    The Mushkin just hit 303TiBHW a short time ago.
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-23-2011 at 11:49 AM.

  22. #2347
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    417.61B Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 12

    MD5 OK

    33.91MiB/s on avg (~35 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 90/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 82 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 41 (SSD Life left)
    E9 225669 (Raw writes)
    F1 300510 (Host writes)

    MD5 OK (MD5 checking was enabled for this session)

    102.68MiB/s on avg (~22 hours)

    power on hours : 905

    Yesterday B1 started increasing within a few loops so the decrease was only temporary.

    --

    Drive is back up running on fw 1.3.3, avg speed looks to be a bit up, will know more next update.
    Last edited by Anvil; 10-23-2011 at 02:33 PM.
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  23. #2348
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60 Update, Day 32

    05 2
    Retired Block Count

    B1 16
    Wear Range Delta

    F1 304933
    Host Writes

    E9 235194
    NAND Writes

    E6 100
    Life Curve

    E7 10
    Life Left

    Average 127.92MB/s Avg
    Intel RST drivers, Celeron G530 Biostar TH67+

    736 Hours Work (24hrs since the last update)
    Time 1 month 16 hours

    11 GiB Minimum Free Space


    Mushkin Day 32.JPG

    Wear Range Delta continues to drop, but I'm a little surprised that the increase and decrease has happened so quickly.

    It was 25 when I posted the update on the 29th day, but perhaps the difference between B1 = 11 and B1 = 21 is not so much when the Force 3 and F40-A are both given to high WRDs.

    Besides the capacity difference, NAND/PE differences, there is also the matter of speed. Shouldn't faster drives be able to rotate static data more quickly than slower drives? The Chronos D is roughly 25% faster than the Force 3, and maybe over 2x the speed of the F40-A (I believe it was about 55MBs @ 46% [Application]).
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-23-2011 at 05:18 PM.

  24. #2349
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    I had another TRIM/File delete related crash just a few minutes ago. I should have left it the way it was when I had the problem eliminated.
    hmm. is this with the new FW?
    "Lurking" Since 1977


    Jesus Saves, God Backs-Up
    *I come to the news section to ban people, not read complaints.*-[XC]Gomeler
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  25. #2350
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    I had another TRIM/File delete related crash just a few minutes ago. I should have left it the way it was when I had the problem eliminated.
    hmm. is this with the new FW?
    "Lurking" Since 1977


    Jesus Saves, God Backs-Up
    *I come to the news section to ban people, not read complaints.*-[XC]Gomeler
    Don't believe Squish, his hardware does control him!

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