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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #1951
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    414.13 TiB (455.34 TB) total
    1136.52 hours
    8647 Raw Wear
    117.97 MB/s avg for the last 64.32 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count (Realloc Sectors) at 6.
    (Bank 6/Block 2406; Bank 3/Block 3925; Bank 0/Block 1766; Bank 0/Block 829; Bank 4/Block 3191; Bank 7/Block 937)

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-10.03.2011.PNG
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
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    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
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  2. #1952
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    The Corsair is still doing fine on the X58.
    It is noticeably slower in 3Gb/s mode but it looks to be stable.

    50 hours w/o issues points to that there is something with the drive in 6Gb/s mode or that the drive is having issues with the SnB chipset.
    I'll leave it running a few more hours and then I'll update fw + move it back to the SnB rig, if it fails I'll try disabling Hot Plugging.

    CDI_2011-10-03-17-06.JPG

    Corsair Force 3 SSD_120GB_1GB-20111003-1707.png
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  3. #1953
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    The drive just disconnected, so it took almost 51 hours on the X58.
    Not sure what triggered it, a lot of activity on this rig but still it shouldn't disconnect.

    I'm about to upgrade the fw.
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  4. #1954
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    Quote Originally Posted by devsk View Post
    Anybody wants to bet the m4 goes all the way to 1PB?
    650TB is where im sitting with it, maybe 700TB. Still thats an incredible amount of data written to that drive.
    -=The Gamer=-
    MSI Z68A-GD65 (G3) | i5 2500k @ 4.5Ghz | 1.3875V | 28C Idle / 65C Load (LinX)
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    Heat

  5. #1955
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    1PB would be around 15890 P/E cycles at the current rate.
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

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  6. #1956
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Since I had to take my desktop with the H67 down for a few minutes last night, the Mushkin's been running non-stop. So all I can say is that it's more stable on the H67, not completely stable. It might only last 40 or so hours uninterrupted -- I can't really say yet.

    In the first few days I had the drive, as the boot device, it only crashed once every 30 hrs. After that I moved it to to a secondary position where disconnects were much more frequent -- every night (and every day). At least for the last two days when I check the system in the morning the drive is still working... that in itself is pretty nice, and if I can keep up the pace I'll pass the Force 3 in writes/host writes in a few days. With all the disconnects over night, then the testing in the much slower laptop, I was only getting about 8 - 9 TB a day.

    What part of this H67 board is helping is impossible to say. It could be the disabled per-device hotplugging, or advanced link power management (also in the UEFI) disconnected. It could just be that the sata ports themselves are operating in spec or whatever. Who knows? It might not even be stable yet. I just don't understand what the hell is going on -- but I'll know more in a few days.
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-03-2011 at 10:37 AM.

  7. #1957
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    Seems to me this app is the most consistent/repeatable usage case for causing SF-2200 failure....

  8. #1958
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Seems to me this app is the most consistent/repeatable usage case for causing SF-2200 failure....
    I believe so.

    What I find most interesting is that most of the blame is placed on power saving chipset functions, like the ability to partially shutdown the drive. Why would a drive operating at 100% go into a power saving mode? I would assume it would happen when the system is idling, as is the drive -- not when the drive is interleaving writes across many devices -- when the drive uses the most power. It really seems like the drive just "gives up" after a while under endurance loads. So if you want to make sure your SF 2281 is actually stable, the best thing to do is endurance test it for months on end...

  9. #1959
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    If power saving chipset functions are to blame, then a simple solution would be to disable all power saving options possible. This might explain why is so hard to reproduce and why is not affecting all the drives, as this is usually configured differently from one computer to another.

    I just realized a funny thing... I have set my laptop on max power profile from the moment I have bought my SSD, as my CPU is undervolted and there is not a significant gain in keeping it running at lower frequencies. It might be a reason why I never experienced any issues
    Last edited by sergiu; 10-03-2011 at 12:14 PM.

  10. #1960
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiu View Post
    If power saving chipset functions are to blame, then a simple solution would be to disable all power saving options possible. This might explain why is so hard to reproduce and why is not affecting all the drives, as this is usually configured differently from one computer to another.

    I just realized a funny thing... I have set my laptop on max power profile from the moment I have bought my SSD, as my CPU is undervolted and there is not a significant gain in keeping it running at lower frequencies. It might be a reason why I never experienced any issues
    Maybe. That's the problem.

    No one actually knows.

  11. #1961
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiu View Post
    I just realized a funny thing... I have set my laptop on max power profile from the moment I have bought my SSD, as my CPU is undervolted and there is not a significant gain in keeping it running at lower frequencies. It might be a reason why I never experienced any issues
    Why don't you enable power savings


    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Seems to me this app is the most consistent/repeatable usage case for causing SF-2200 failure....
    Using these exact drives, it certainly looks that way.
    Would be tempting trying one of the other new gen drives like the m4 but as B.A.T has had no similar experiences...

    My drive has been running for almost 3 hours with the new fw (1.3.2) on the original SnB rig, let's see if the new fw makes a difference.
    I formatted the drive as a test, next time I might SE the drive.

    The fw upgrade reset the power on counter on my drive as well.
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  12. #1962
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    Maybe you just solved the SF issue : power saving features !? SF should pay up a big stash

  13. #1963
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    My drive has been running for almost 3 hours with the new fw (1.3.2) on the original SnB rig, let's see if the new fw makes a difference.
    I formatted the drive as a test, next time I might SE the drive.

    The fw upgrade reset the power on counter on my drive as well.
    I hope it works out for the Force 3, but I'm more of the opinion that the motherboard matters the most. There may ne some edge cases where stability can be achieved some other way, but it seems like it works with some mainboards and doesn't work with others. A possible exception is if you have ALPM(very few boards have this) and hotplugging disabled in the UEFI... I'd love to test this some more but I'm going to see what happens as is. It's only been 40 hrs on this H67, and only 20 without a reboot. I think the mark to beat is 51hrs stable right? That's the longest number of consecutive hours either 2281 was active.


    EDIT
    The Avg MB/s has crept up to an astounding 127.28MBs while the wear delta has plunged to 16 from the mid 20's. That's a substantial increase in speed
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-03-2011 at 01:05 PM.

  14. #1964
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    @bulanula

    Power savings (and what not) have been frequently mentioned on the OCZ forums, I've not tried it myself as it hasn't been an issue, until now.

    @christopher
    51 hours on the X58/ICH10R, I'll have to do a check on the AMD rig though, could be that the first runs were longer...
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  15. #1965
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    Would be tempting trying one of the other new gen drives like the m4 but as B.A.T has had no similar experiences...
    Like Anvil says the m4 has been performing without a hitch. The same can't be said of the Kingston V+100, but it has behaved nicely for a week now. On the other hand, I'm using AMD chipset but I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

    Todays update
    m4
    590.0843 TiB
    2166 hours
    Avg speed 88.75 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 18 to 13.
    P/E 10300.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors
    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111003-2207-3.pngM4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111003-2207-2.png

    Kingston V+100
    105.6310 TiB
    417 hours
    Avg speed 77.03 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 98 to 93.
    P/E ?.
    MD5 OK.
    KINGSTON SVP100S264G SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111003-2208-3.pngKINGSTON SVP100S264G SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20111003-2208-2.png
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  16. #1966
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    I just noticed BATs SSDLife warning says "too many bad cells and projected lifetime is less than one month".

    I'm certain that both are false

  17. #1967
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    Lets hope so
    SSDLife is just reading value 202
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  18. #1968
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A.T View Post
    Lets hope so
    SSDLife is just reading value 202
    I know... just really not applicable.

    I'm really, really impressed with it's performance.

    EDIT
    I emailed someone at OCZ to ask what the deal was with my brand-new Vertex Turbo 120. I asked if it was possible for a drive manufactured in the last few months to have 50nm Samung flash (if that was in fact what it was using). I posted the identity tool results of 081102. I said I had bought the drive a little over two weeks ago new from an etailer. It had the pre-May plastic chassis (doesn't fit in many laptops as the case dimensions are too large).

    They sent me the datasheet for some Samsung NAND and replied, "hope this helps".

    I'm not sure it does... on the bright side, it's nice that I can just ask random questions to people at OCZ.
    Last edited by Christopher; 10-03-2011 at 05:05 PM.

  19. #1969
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Mushkin Chronos Deluxe 60 Update

    05 2
    Retired Block Count

    B1 16 (Down from 21)
    Wear Range Delta

    F1 113531
    Host Writes

    E9 87533
    NAND Writes

    E6 100
    Life Curve

    E7 55 (Down from 60)
    Life Left

    Average 127.02MB/s Avg
    (up from 124.95)

    261Hours Work (22hrs since the last update)
    Time 10 days, 21 hours

    Last 23.64hrs on 6gps port (Biostar TH67+)

    11GiB Minimum Free Space 11500 files per loop, 12.9 loops per hour

    SSDlife expects 14 days to 0 MWI
    mushkin day 11.JPG

  20. #1970
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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    Hi Johnw, have you tried reading from the Samsung recently? I’m not 100% sure but I believe current SSD’s use dynamic wear levelling rather than static wear levelling. Dynamic wear levelling excludes static data, which mean that the NAND with static data on your SSD would have no wear. It would be interesting to run the endurance test on another Samsung without static data to see how much longer it would last for.

  21. #1971
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    After about 30 hours of consecutive running, the Mushkin disconnected -- but I actually think it was something I did. I ejected a USB HDD enclosure a few hours before, and then disconnected it. I left for a few hours and when I came back to the system CrystalDiskInfo wasn't running anymore. I tried relaunching it several times. After a few seconds it popped up while the Mushkin disconnected. When I had ejected the USB drive earlier, it didn't fully dismount which CDI doesn't like. Somehow in that condition, trying to relaunch CDI may have done it. What's weird is hotplugging is disabled in the UEFI, but RST still acted like hotplugging was enabled. So I removed the RST drivers, reverted to MSAHCI, and registry hacked the two SATA III ports to internal only. The disconnect could have been nothing more than coincidence, but I'm not so certain. Of course, the two other SSDs didn't go anywhere -- only the SF drive.

  22. #1972
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    367.12TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 10
    MD5 OK

    35.60MiB/s on avg (~16 hours)

    --

    Corsair Force 3 120GB

    01 90/50 (Raw read error rate)
    05 2 (Retired Block count)
    B1 51 (Wear range delta)
    E6 100 (Life curve status)
    E7 75 (SSD Life left)
    E9 103714 (Raw writes)
    F1 138188 (Host writes)

    107.07MiB/s on avg (~17 hours).

    power on hours : 400

    Both are running off the ASRock SnB Z68 rig.

    It looks like I had forgotten to disable Security Essentials scanning on the X58, so, it could have had higher throughput.
    (will test later)

    @christopher
    Most of the disconnects have happened in conjunction with me checking the status or some other heavy I/O (when using the computer)
    It has happened more than once so I'm not sure what it could mean. All power savings are on on my systems, I'd be willing to try disabling those features if necessary.
    Last edited by Anvil; 10-04-2011 at 02:47 AM.
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  23. #1973
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Anvil,

    I'm starting to think the drives either like your motherboard or they hate it. End of story.

    One consideration is the fact that I used the OS installation from the DP67BG mainboard. Windows 7 doesn't protest much (Office needs reactivation though), but I'm just running out of ideas. I'm running it with MSAHCI with this H67 for a while. I don't think the disconnect I had was a coincidence, but I'm just going to try it the H67 msahci combo for a little while. It didn't work very well with the other board and msahci is 6mb/s slower avg as well. I'm pretty sure I caused it, but the drive is just really "sensitive". I'd had another similar circumstance with the other board too. I'll take a crash every thirty hours over every eighteen, but I won't be happy about it.

  24. #1974
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    420.32 TiB (462.14 TB) total
    1149.38 hours
    8760 Raw Wear
    117.04 MB/s avg for the last 15.32 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count (Realloc Sectors) at 6.
    (Bank 6/Block 2406; Bank 3/Block 3925; Bank 0/Block 1766; Bank 0/Block 829; Bank 4/Block 3191; Bank 7/Block 937)

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-10.04.2011.PNG
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  25. #1975
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ao1 View Post
    Hi Johnw, have you tried reading from the Samsung recently? I’m not 100% sure but I believe current SSD’s use dynamic wear levelling rather than static wear levelling. Dynamic wear levelling excludes static data, which mean that the NAND with static data on your SSD would have no wear. It would be interesting to run the endurance test on another Samsung without static data to see how much longer it would last for.
    Yes, the result of this is very interesting. Is the data really read only and for how long etc.

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