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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #1401
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    m4 update:

    354.9926 TiB
    1167 hours
    Avg speed 89.60 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 164 to 149.
    P/E 6221.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110822-2105.PNG

    The Kingston V+ 100 will be ready in about 2 hours. I just need to set it up first.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  2. #1402
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    m4 is the 2nd drive past the 2:1 ratio (actual lifetime : MWI lifetime).

    Still no reallocated sectors/blocks and it's using 'lesser' 25nm NAND. Very impressive.

  3. #1403
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    And now:
    The Kingston V+100 64GB
    DSC_8446.png

    CDI

    CDI-fresh out of the box_kingston v+100 64GB.PNG

    Some benchmark:

    AS SSD
    as-ssd-bench KINGSTON SVP100 22.08.2011 21-56-42.png

    AnvilPro
    KINGSTON SVP100S264G SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20110822-2206.png

    ATTO
    ATTO_Kingston V+100 64GB_22.08.2011.PNG

    A picture of the nand inside
    Kingston nand - Toshiba.png


    The Kingston is filled with the same content of the m4 (just copied from the M4)
    Kingston V+100 filled before testing.PNG
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  4. #1404
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Did any SMART values move after the benchmarking/static data writes? Doesn't look like there's many SMART attributes worth tracking with how they read in the first screenshot.

  5. #1405
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    I haven't written more than 55 GB yet but I'll know soon.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  6. #1406
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    thanks for the Kingston! that is the value leader, so many will be interested in that one. you guys are awesome with your contributions!
    poor vapor, his graphs are getting more complex and bigger!
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  7. #1407
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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    I'm looking forward to seeing what the Kingston can do as well. Anand stated it had rock solid sequential performance, but overly aggressive garbage collection. Guess we will soon see.

    That NAND part # is : TH58NVG6D7FBAK2 (?)

  8. #1408
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    That nand part# looks right. The picture was a little blury.

    I think the GC is messing up the seq speed. The avg at the moment is ~79 MiB/s
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  9. #1409
    SSDabuser Christopher's Avatar
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    Write Amplification

    How can the M4 have so many Non 4K Aligned accesses and have such low write amplification?

    Most of that would be writes anyway given the ratio of reads to writes.

    I was trying to figure out the write amplification of my old Agility60 with 10000PE rated NAND -- I've only written ~1400GB to it, but it's down to 84% MWI with an average PE of ~1600. I started keeping track of it a month ago after seeing how low the WA was on the M225 > Vertex Turbo, even without trim.

  10. #1410
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Did any SMART values move after the benchmarking/static data writes? Doesn't look like there's many SMART attributes worth tracking with how they read in the first screenshot.
    AD went down from 200 to 199 after little over 0.65 TiB

    KINGSTON SVP100S264G SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20110823-0136.pngKINGSTON SVP100S264G SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20110823-0137.PNG
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  11. #1411
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Looks like AD is behaving similar-ish to MWI. If AD 199 = 99.5 MWI and your NAND is rated for 5000 cycles, then you've used 25+ cycles to write .7TiB (roughly accounting for static writes + benchmarks), then you're looking at ~138TiB MWI Endurance and a WA of ~2.25x. That all seems plausible, especially so early into the process

  12. #1412
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    246.07TiB host writes, 17 MWI, 4158 raw wear indicator, 2048/1 reallocations, 63.85MiB/sec (13hr average after a restart, IDK why it's suddenly so much higher than it was the rest of the test), MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT Update (from much earlier today...MWI has ticked down a notch in awhile)

    115.813TiB host writes, 78.719TiB NAND writes, 63 MWI, 1259.5 raw wear (equiv), wear range delta 3 (still), 56.5MiB/sec, MD5 OK


    C300 and m4 are just a few days from out-living the Samsung 470 in terms of days and have just 1 combined reallocation (and the C300 won't even have exhausted its MWI when it passes the 470).

  13. #1413
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    m4 update:

    357.7790 TiB
    1177 hours
    Avg speed 90.51 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 149 to 147.
    P/E 6270.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    The m4 was not running the for 2 hours when I made the Kingston ready.
    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20110823-0725.PNG

    Kingston V+100:

    2.2175 TiB
    9 hours
    Avg speed 78.97 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 199 to 194.
    P/E ?
    MD5 OK.
    No reallocated sectors

    KINGSTON SVP100S264G SATA Disk Device_64GB_1GB-20110823-0725.PNG
    Last edited by B.A.T; 08-23-2011 at 02:04 AM. Reason: corrected kingston hours
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  14. #1414
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    C300 and m4 are just a few days from out-living the Samsung 470 in terms of days and have just 1 combined reallocation (and the C300 won't even have exhausted its MWI when it passes the 470).
    But Samsung 470 is 20% faster than M4 in writing and got there first....

  15. #1415
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A.T View Post
    Kingston V+100:

    2.2175 TiB
    1177 hours
    Avg speed 78.97 MiB/s.
    I was not expecting the Kingston V+100 to be slower than the Samsung 470, let alone also slower than the m4. That is disappointing.

  16. #1416
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    I agree with you. The Kingston V+100 can only sustain the adverticed speed in bursts (like AS SSD and ASU) but not under stress like the endurance test.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  17. #1417
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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    I'm surprised by the write speed. Anvil's app is mostly sequential. The Anantech review stated that even with a highly fragmenting work load write speeds would not drop.

    "The SSDNow V+100 has wild swings in power consumption during our random write test ranging from 1.25W to 3.40W. The swings would happen several times in a window of a couple of seconds. The V+100 is aggressively tries to reorganize writes and recycle bad blocks, more aggressively than we've seen from any other SSD.

    The benefit of this is you get peak performance out of the drive regardless of how much you use it, which is perfect for an OS without TRIM support - ahem, OS X. Now you can see why Apple chose this controller.

    There is a downside however: write amplification. For every 4KB we randomly write to a location on the drive, the actual amount of data written is much, much greater. It's the cost of constantly cleaning/reorganizing the drive for performance."

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/4010/k...lus-100-review

    EDIT: Power consumption would be an interesting way to evaluate NAND wear.
    Last edited by Ao1; 08-23-2011 at 02:28 AM.

  18. #1418
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    Is there any way to get CrystalDiskInfo or Intel's SSD Toolkit working with a single drive in RAID mode? The controller has an array as well, so the SSD has to be in RAID mode as well.

    Another thing, what exactly is WA?

    Loving the thread guys
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  19. #1419
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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  20. #1420
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    Is it me or does it look like CrystalDiskInfo is seeing the Kingston V+100 like a regular spinner HDD?
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  21. #1421
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    130.0 TiB
    503.6 hours
    MWI 33 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
    3383 Raw Wear
    110.19 MB/s avg for the last 15.8 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count(Realloc Sectors) at 2 (Bank 6/Block 2406; Bank 3/Block 3925)

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-08.23.2011.PNG
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  22. #1422
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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    It does appear to show that NCQ is not enabled. The AS SSD bench also seems to show that NCQ is disabled. Can't see how that would impact the sequential write speed though on Anvil's app. NCQ does help reduce WA however.

  23. #1423
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ao1 View Post
    It does appear to show that NCQ is not enabled. The AS SSD bench also seems to show that NCQ is disabled. Can't see how that would impact the sequential write speed though on Anvil's app. NCQ does help reduce WA however.
    Not all SSD firmwares and controllers implement NCQ for writes, and for those that do, not all implement it well. The Samsung 470, the Kingston V+100, and the Intel 510 all perform relatively poorly for high QD writes. Interestingly, those are also the SSDs that have among the highest sequential write speeds.

  24. #1424
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Not all SSD firmwares and controllers implement NCQ for writes, and for those that do, not all implement it well...
    You can say that again
    I'm performing a few small tests on an WD SLC drive just to see how bad performance can get during the Endurance test.

    It looks like a terrible performer when mixed block sizes are being continuously written to the drive, a small break brings speed back up again but it doesn't last for long.
    Will post a few screenshots when I've gotten a few more sample rates.
    -
    Hardware:

  25. #1425
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    It's interesting to see the difference TRIM has made to bluestang. Significantly faster write speeds and reduced WA.
    Nice to see that a realistic scenario is being tested on the Indilinx drive. Also very eager to see if the Samsung 470 will retain that data for much longer without MD5 errors etc.

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