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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #1351
    SynbiosVyse
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    05: 0
    B1: 17
    E7: 87%
    E9: 25536
    EA/F1: 40128
    F2: 64

    118.50 hours
    39.0078 TiB
    58.66 MB/s avg
    MD5 Ok

  2. #1352
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    m4 update:

    326.4213 TiB
    1076 hours
    Avg speed 89.51 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 170 to 166.
    P/E 5718.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110819-0034.PNG
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  3. #1353
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    225.165TiB host writes, 24 MWI, 3803 raw wear indicator, 2048/1 reallocations, 62.9MiB/sec, MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT Update

    97.38TiB host writes, 64.406TiB NAND writes, 70 MWI, 1030.5 raw wear (equiv), raw wear delta 3, 56.35MiB/sec, MD5 OK

  4. #1354
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    460.056 TiB, 1249 hours, sa177: 1/1/37631, sa178: 32/32/684, 107.43 MB/s
    464.038 TiB, 1260 hours, sa177: 1/1/37945, sa178: 27/27/734, 105.33 MB/s

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

  5. #1355
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    244.04TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors 6

    MD5 OK

    Been travelling this week, will try to catch up this weekend
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  6. #1356
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    m4 update:

    330.1559 TiB
    1088 hours
    Avg speed 89.51 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 166 to 164.
    P/E 5784.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110819-1242.PNG

    Next update monday afternoon. I'm going away for the weekend.
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    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  7. #1357
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    Just hit 100.00 TiB
    431.8 hours
    MWI 44 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
    2809 Raw Wear
    110.85 MB/s avg for the last 16.9 hours (on W7 x64)
    MD5 OK
    C4-Erase Failure Block Count(Realloc Sectors) at 1 (BANK 6, Block 2406)

    Anvil M225-Vertex Turbo 64GB 08.19.2011.png

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-08.19.2011.PNG

    I wish I was still on the FW that had the 10,000 P/E Cycles listed for this 51nm Samsung NAND.
    Then MWI would be lasting ~350+ TiB on this drive
    Last edited by bluestang; 08-22-2011 at 03:57 AM.
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  8. #1358
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    464.038 TiB, 1260 hours, sa177: 1/1/37945, sa178: 27/27/734, 105.33 MB/s
    468.389 TiB, 1273 hours, sa177: 1/1/38304, sa178: 21/21/796, 106.43 MB/s

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

  9. #1359
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    231.027TiB host writes, 22 MWI, 3901 raw wear indicator, 2048/1 reallocations, 63MiB/sec (it's going up?), MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT Update from earlier today

    102.94TiB host writes, 68.72TiB NAND writes, 68 MWI, 1099.5 raw wear (equiv), 56.4MiB/sec (also going up?), MD5 OK

  10. #1360
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    468.389 TiB, 1273 hours, sa177: 1/1/38304, sa178: 21/21/796, 106.43 MB/s
    472.748 TiB, 1285 hours, sa177: 1/1/38652, sa178: 13/13/878, 105.11 MB/s

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

    Less than a day left, I think....

  11. #1361
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    I'd be surprised if there were more than 18 hours left (from your most recent update/post).

    And on top of that it seems like the drive is still poised to live after SA177 bottoms out, sheesh

  12. #1362
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    I wonder if the slight slowdown is something to do with the graph below.(The graph is based on SLC with 100K PE).

    Either way, I can't wait to find out what happens when the NAND can no longer erase or hold a change. If the NAND can't erase how can it hold a charge? What happens when data can no longer be erased or loses it's charge? Will the OS become unstable? Will SMART pop up with a warning and then render the drive read only?

    sammy.jpg

  13. #1363
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    233.917TiB host writes, 21 MWI, 3950 raw wear indicator, 2048/1 reallocations, 63MiB/sec, MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT Update

    106.063TiB host writes, 71.156TiB NAND writes, 67 MWI, 1138.5 raw wear (equiv), wear range delta 3 (still), 56.45MiB/sec (still speeding up...), MD5 OK

  14. #1364
    Uber Raid King Computurd's Avatar
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    holy cow maybe there will be some excitement! i want to see smoke LOL
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  15. #1365
    SynbiosVyse
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    05: 0
    B1: 23
    E7: 82%
    E9: 33024
    EA/F1: 49472
    F2: 64

    163.77 hours
    58.67 MB/s avg
    MD5 Ok

  16. #1366
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Very interesting that the wear range delta for the SF-1200s with no static data is so much worse than with static data. I know with mine it got to 8 when I had no static data and dropped down to 3 (and has since stayed there) once I added ~35GiB of static data.

    With yours, SynbiosVyse, wear range delta has been climbing steadily the entire time (up to 23 now) and you have very little static data.

  17. #1367
    SynbiosVyse
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    Is that because throughout the drive more blocks are being written to? With 20-30% static data there are regions of the drive that are essentially dormant during these tests.

    What effects does the wear range delta have (if any) on performance, life, etc?

  18. #1368
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    One would expect wear range delta to be higher with static data but the opposite is true so far. My SF-1200 is ~63% full with static data and my wear range delta shrunk when I added it. You have nearly 0 static data and yours continues to grow. With static data, NAND seems to be evenly used; without static data, NAND doesn't seem to be evenly used.

    It's almost like it expects static data as it tries to do wear leveling.

    Hard to know the effects of wear range delta...we don't know the units. Is it a percentage between 90th percentile usage and 10th percentile usage? Is it P/E cycles difference between 99th percentile usage and 1st percentile usage? If it's just P/E cycles between most used and least used, a difference of 23 cycles between least and most isn't a big deal when the average is 688 (as yours is now). If it's 23% wear difference between most/least, that's pretty notable and probably will have an effect on endurance. If it's 23% difference between 90th and 10th percentile, that could be really bad for endurance.

    Also of note from your F40-A, LTT hasn't kicked in yet even though ~20% of your NAND's minimum rated lifetime has been used in less than a dozen days. Seems lifetime was set for something very short, maybe even impossibly short (basically deactivating LTT). And even if it kicks in, write speeds may not drop that much.

  19. #1369
    SynbiosVyse
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    With static data, NAND seems to be evenly used; without static data, NAND doesn't seem to be evenly used.
    This seems counter-interuitive to me. If you have static data, wouldn't the NAND be unevenly used since some of the drive is dormant, hence, lower wear range delta? There will be a portion of the drive undergoing very few, if any, P/E cycles.

    If you don't have static data, the drive will be evenly used because it is utilizing practically the whole drive.

  20. #1370
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    472.748 TiB, 1285 hours, sa177: 1/1/38652, sa178: 13/13/878, 105.11 MB/s
    477.199 TiB, 1298 hours, sa177: 1/1/39010, sa178: 4/4/968, 103.76 MB/s

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

    sa178 almost there....geez sa235 still hasn't moved, what do we have to do to get that one to change??

  21. #1371
    Xtreme Mentor Ao1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SynbiosVyse View Post
    This seems counter-interuitive to me. If you have static data, wouldn't the NAND be unevenly used since some of the drive is dormant, hence, lower wear range delta? There will be a portion of the drive undergoing very few, if any, P/E cycles.

    If you don't have static data, the drive will be evenly used because it is utilizing practically the whole drive.
    If I remember correctly the delta between most-worn and least-worn was higher on the V2 when I used static data and it remained lower on the V3 with no static data. SF drives rotate static data, so presumably that would increase WA.

    The really weird thing though is that the drive has not hit LTT.

    Could you please run Anvil's app on 100% incompressible data just to make sure LTT has not kicked in and is being masked by compression. I'm sure write speeds would have dropped if LTT had kicked in, although at 46% it would not be by as much as I saw.

    This is a retail drive?

    Off topic a bit, but I've noticed that one of my Intel drives has gone from 98% back to 100% over the 12 months or so that I switched it out from being an OS drive to a drive that just contains static data. Quite strange, but it has definitely reverted back to 100%.

  22. #1372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ao1 View Post
    Off topic a bit, but I've noticed that one of my Intel drives has gone from 98% back to 100% over the 12 months or so that I switched it out from being an OS drive to a drive that just contains static data. Quite strange, but it has definitely reverted back to 100%.
    Any firmware updates during that time?

  23. #1373
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    Quote Originally Posted by SynbiosVyse View Post
    This seems counter-interuitive to me. If you have static data, wouldn't the NAND be unevenly used since some of the drive is dormant, hence, lower wear range delta? There will be a portion of the drive undergoing very few, if any, P/E cycles.

    If you don't have static data, the drive will be evenly used because it is utilizing practically the whole drive.
    I don't have a good explanation, I'm just translating what the data says and it says with static data, NAND seems to be evenly used; without static data, NAND doesn't seem to be evenly used.

    I don't think any modern SSD doesn't actively rotate static data, however; it's extremely important for wear leveling. Even the 'old' Indilinx M225->Vertex Turbo has its reported wear range (based on max, average, and min reported P/E cycles) stay fairly constant over time....the Max Wear started at 255 cycles above Avg (257 vs. 2) and now Avg is at 2809 and Max is just 332 cycles higher than that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ao1 View Post
    SF drives rotate static data, so presumably that would increase WA.
    I think that's exactly what's going on.

    With my compression tests I observed a WA of .732x with the 46% setting with no static data and 12GiB free. With the 46% setting, 34.85GiB of static data, and 12GiB free WA has been .782x. With the F40-A with no static data and 1GiB free, it's been .803x. So the F40-A has the highest WA and a growing wear range delta--maybe it's the 1GiB free setting?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ao1 View Post
    The really weird thing though is that the drive has not hit LTT.

    Could you please run Anvil's app on 100% incompressible data just to make sure LTT has not kicked in and is being masked by compression. I'm sure write speeds would have dropped if LTT had kicked in, although at 46% it would not be by as much as I saw.
    Agreed that it's very odd LTT hasn't activated yet. But the F40-A has been writing to NAND at 47.1MiB/sec, so I really doubt LTT will be hiding behind compression considering the NAND write speed is high and unchanged

  24. #1374
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    477.199 TiB, 1298 hours, sa177: 1/1/39010, sa178: 4/4/968, 103.76 MB/s
    FINAL ASU REPORT:

    478.037 TiB (or 477.212 TiB), 1300 hours, sa177: 1/1/39078, sa178: 2/2/996, sa235: 99/99/2, 3.59 MB/s

    Write errors continuously logged, ASU mostly unresponsive (waiting for writes to complete that rarely do?)

    64GB Samsung 470
    Last edited by johnw; 08-20-2011 at 03:36 PM.

  25. #1375
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