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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #1201
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    Of course it is life like, Intel recommends running Intel SSD Toolbox once every week, which would equal every 10-140GB depending on your usage pattern.
    TRIM will not clean all "deleted" data even if you are running an OS supporting TRIM. (this is why it is recommended running the toolbox)

    Not sure how many GB is written between each run of "wiper" but it is surely much more than the recommended 10-140GB, a lot more , an average of 40MiB/s equals 1 week of writes written in just 1 hour.
    So if he cleans the drive once per day it would equal (a minimum) of 24weeks of writes, so, he can in fact run "wiper" once every hour and still be within the norm.
    I've been running it once or twice a day in the past 2 days, so about every ~3.5TiB.

    I like your thought about having the App run it every "n" hours.
    I think every 4 hours would be perfect and would also fall into the 70-75 loop area and aroun 1Tib area.
    Last edited by bluestang; 08-03-2011 at 07:44 AM. Reason: added wipe info
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  2. #1202
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    m4 update:

    213.7184 TiB
    711 hours
    Avg speed 90.42 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 236 to 232.
    P/E 3733.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110803-1737.PNG
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    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  3. #1203
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    17.60 TiB
    119.74 hours
    MWI 86 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
    703 Raw Wear
    36.24 MiB/s avg for the last 24.02 hours
    No MD5 Testing yet

    Also, C3 still at 2 and CE still at 235, same as last update.

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-08.03.2011.jpg
    Last edited by bluestang; 08-03-2011 at 09:12 AM.
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  4. #1204
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    312.510 TiB, 851 hours, sa177: 1/1/25623, sa178: 71/71/292
    321.708 TiB, 876 hours, sa177: 1/1/26383, sa178: 70/70/296

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

    sa178 raw increase of 4 this time -- still have not seen an increase by 1 (or any other odd number). It looks like the normalized value decreases by 1 for about a 10 increase in the raw value. So the raw value should be roughly 1000 when the normalized value reaches 1. If that is 1000 erase blocks of 512KiB each, then we are looking at roughly 512MiB of reallocated flash, or roughly 0.8% of 64GiB on board. Seems plausible to reserve a little less than 1% of flash for reallocated blocks.

  5. #1205
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    I might be able to add the wiper process to the loop, maybe an option to let it run every n loops.

    You should let it run for a day or two just to see how bad it gets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    Of course it is life like, Intel recommends running Intel SSD Toolbox once every week, which would equal every 10-140GB depending on your usage pattern.
    TRIM will not clean all "deleted" data even if you are running an OS supporting TRIM. (this is why it is recommended running the toolbox)

    Not sure how many GB is written between each run of "wiper" but it is surely much more than the recommended 10-140GB, a lot more , an average of 40MiB/s equals 1 week of writes written in just 1 hour.
    So if he cleans the drive once per day it would equal (a minimum) of 24weeks of writes, so, he can in fact run "wiper" once every hour and still be within the norm.
    Anything new on this feature/special build?
    If I could run it every 15 loops (around 1 hour), that would be every ~220 GB.
    Also probably keep my avg ~60-65 MB/s and ~5 TiB/day I think.
    Around 50% per day increase.
    Last edited by bluestang; 08-03-2011 at 12:22 PM.
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  6. #1206
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    C300 Update

    148.55TiB, 50MWI, 2511 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocation, MD5 OK


    SF-1200 60GB Update

    25TiB host writes, 14.25TiB NAND writes, 96 MWI, 228 raw wear, wear range delta 4, no reallocations.

  7. #1207
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    Charts Updated

    All bar charts are sorted by their respective equivalent of Writes So Far. SF-1200 MWI Exhaustion expectation is overly optimistic due to me still running compression tests (and 0-fill was redone after it went below 100MWI)....it will probably always be optimistic until MWI does deplete. SF-1200 observed WA is also optimistic, for the same reasons.

    Host Writes So Far

    Aug3HostBar.png

    Aug3HostLine.png


    Normalized Writes So Far
    The SSDs are not all the same size, these charts normalize for available NAND capacity.

    Aug3NormBar.png

    Aug3NormLine.png


    Write Days So Far
    Not all SSDs write at the same speed, these charts factor out write speeds and look at endurance as a function of time.

    Aug3WDBar.png

    Aug3WDLine.png


    Host Writes vs. NAND Writes and Write Amplication
    Based on reported or calculated NAND cycles from wear SMART values divided by total writes.

    Aug3WrLin.png

    Aug3WrLog.png

    Aug3WrtAmp.png

  8. #1208
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    So, 3 drives have made it past 5000 "P/E" cycles. (Host writes/NAND "size")
    1x 34nm drive, 1x 32nm drive and 1x 25nm drive.

    --

    Kingston SSDNow 40GB (X25-V)

    212.62TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 6
    MD5 OK
    -
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  9. #1209
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    m4 update:

    220.3349 TiB
    732hours
    Avg speed 89.74 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 232 to 228.
    P/E 3850.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110804-1515.PNG
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    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  10. #1210
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestang View Post
    Anything new on this feature/special build?
    If I could run it every 15 loops (around 1 hour), that would be every ~220 GB.
    Also probably keep my avg ~60-65 MB/s and ~5 TiB/day I think.
    Around 50% per day increase.
    Not really but I have found a wiper that does not require any user input/interaction, could you try downloading and running just to see if it works.
    Link
    For this to work flawlessly, wiper would have to exit once the operation is done, could you check that as well.
    -
    Hardware:

  11. #1211
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    Not really but I have found a wiper that does not require any user input/interaction, could you try downloading and running just to see if it works.
    Link
    For this to work flawlessly, wiper would have to exit once the operation is done, could you check that as well.
    Yep, it's works without any input and exits after done.

    Also, just had my system crash a few minutes aga while app was running (sent you PM).
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  12. #1212
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    321.708 TiB, 876 hours, sa177: 1/1/26383, sa178: 70/70/296
    330.672 TiB, 899 hours, sa177: 1/1/27126, sa178: 70/70/302

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

    By the way, I checked the SMART attributes last night, at 884 hours, and sa178 raw was at 300.

  13. #1213
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    20.31 TiB
    138.91 hours
    MWI 84 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
    815 Raw Wear
    ??? MiB/s avg for the last ??? hours
    MD5 OK

    Also, C3 still at 2 and CE still at 235, same as last update.

    Had a system crash this morning while running the app so I lost my MiB/s avg.

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-08.04.2011.jpg
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  14. #1214
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    The real winner will be seen after all the SSDs have died, I think !

  15. #1215
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    C300 Update

    153.9TiB, 48MWI, 2602 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocations, MD5 OK


    SF-1200 nLTT 60GB Update

    32.5TiB host writes, 17.594TiB NAND writes, 94 MWI, wear range delta of 5, 281.5 raw wear (equiv).

  16. #1216
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    215.85TB Host writes
    Reallocated sectors : 6

    33.83MiB/s on avg (28 hours)
    -
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  17. #1217
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    330.672 TiB, 899 hours, sa177: 1/1/27126, sa178: 70/70/302
    340.001 TiB, 924 hours, sa177: 1/1/27887, sa178: 70/70/304

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

  18. #1218
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    23.86 TiB
    MWI 82 (drops by 1 for every 50 raw wear)
    945 Raw Wear
    MD5 OK

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-08.05.2011.jpg
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  19. #1219
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    ok...so who bets on whether these things do a PB or not?
    i bet one does. My moneys on the C300.

    god something needs to explode or something
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  20. #1220
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    Most probably at least half of them will hit 1PB limit if there is no controller failure. The problem is to find out how usable are after this mark. That would mean keeping them in storage for 3-6 months and check if data is still there. But if doing so, we would only know that the drives are capable of at least 1PB writes, without knowing any upper limit.
    And if I would bet, my money in the 1PB race are on Samsung model... I only need to wait another 78-80 days (less time, less chance of total failure)

  21. #1221
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiu View Post
    And if I would bet, my money in the 1PB race are on Samsung model... I only need to wait another 78-80 days (less time, less chance of total failure)
    I would not bet on it. I am becoming increasingly convinced that the write amplification on the Samsung is indeed about 5. And I guess (not convinced, but suspect) that smart attribute 178 normalized is the percentage of blocks left to be used for reallocation. When the pool of blocks available for reallocation is exhausted, the SSD should start having problems fast. If my guess for sa178 is correct, then the Samsung is on a countdown to write death, 72, 71, 70, 69....

  22. #1222
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    340.001 TiB, 924 hours, sa177: 1/1/27887, sa178: 70/70/304
    349.362 TiB, 949 hours, sa177: 1/1/28637, sa178: 69/69/310

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

  23. #1223
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    I would not bet on it. I am becoming increasingly convinced that the write amplification on the Samsung is indeed about 5. And I guess (not convinced, but suspect) that smart attribute 178 normalized is the percentage of blocks left to be used for reallocation. When the pool of blocks available for reallocation is exhausted, the SSD should start having problems fast. If my guess for sa178 is correct, then the Samsung is on a countdown to write death, 72, 71, 70, 69....
    I noticed the death countdown... but also this I suspect is just the pool of blocks for reallocation, not the total spare ones. Once this pool will be empty, it will probably start using the blocks from over provisioning which are a lot more at probably the cost of slower write speed. So if bad block count does not start to increase exponentially, then we will have a winner.

  24. #1224
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    Quote Originally Posted by sergiu View Post
    I noticed the death countdown... but also this I suspect is just the pool of blocks for reallocation, not the total spare ones. Once this pool will be empty, it will probably start using the blocks from over provisioning which are a lot more at probably the cost of slower write speed. So if bad block count does not start to increase exponentially, then we will have a winner.
    That would be great if it uses OP blocks. Of course, I could be wrong about what sa178 is counting, and maybe when it gets to one, all of the OP blocks will be gone, too.

  25. #1225
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    349.362 TiB, 949 hours, sa177: 1/1/28637, sa178: 69/69/310
    358.820 TiB, 974 hours, sa177: 1/1/29409, sa178: 68/68/324

    Average speed reported by Anvil's app has been steady at about 113MB/s.

    The other unknown SMART attribute 235 is still at 99/99/2, just as it was when the SSD was fresh out of the box.

    64GB Samsung 470

    Big change in sa178 this time.

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