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Thread: SSD Write Endurance 25nm Vs 34nm

  1. #1126
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestang View Post
    Any interest in testing a modified Crucial M225 64GB???
    I have one that had about 3 months of use before I pulled it from my home system (was with another one in RAID0). It had a couple hundred GB of use on it I believe (definitely under 1TB and also was at 98-99% life) when pulled. I then flashed it to a Vertex Turbo. Why?, cuz I wanted to know if it could be done and why not? The flash was destructive and reset everything and also no longer say Crucial M225.

    It's been sitting around for about 6-7 weeks since the OCZ flash. I'm not as savy as you guys so I'm not sure it has enough smart data. Plus it might burn up too soon since the controller and NAND are running at higher than rated speed. But, I'd be willing to toss it on my work PC as a spare drive and let it run. The problem I see having is that I'm running XP, so NO TRIM, only GC to rely on or the Wiper Tool.

    Don't forget that even though it says OCZ Vertex Turbo it is a Crucial M225. Let me know what you guys think.

    EDIT: Controller is Indilinx Barefoot IDX110M00-LC, Cache is Elpida 64MG SDRAM S51321CBH-6DTT-F and NAND is Samsung K9LBG08U0M-PCB0.
    Started running Avil's app today @ 12:00 GMT-5 on this drive.
    You guys want me to post daily results in here?
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  2. #1127
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    Any results would be welcome! I am eager to find out how an older generation SSD stands against the new ones.

  3. #1128
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    Sure, just post your results here!
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  4. #1129
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Will do tomorrow!
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  5. #1130
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Got some baseline info so I can things started in the spreadsheet?

  6. #1131
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vapor View Post
    Got some baseline info so I can things started in the spreadsheet?
    Sure...



    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  7. #1132
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Alright, I'll track: C7, Host writes; D1, Remaining Drive Life (equiv. MWI); D0, Average Erase Count (equiv. raw wear indicator); CF, Maximum Erase Count; C4, Erase Failure Block Count (seems to be indicative of reallocated sectors on my drive, hopefully it is with yours).

    I'll call it "M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB" and will need the average speed reported from Anvil's App after a few hours and then you should be all set....for future reports you can either do a screenshot or post the values that are tracked (probably best to do a screenshot initially in case I'm wrong about C4 and if the other values move in interesting ways ).

  8. #1133
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    You see it really is a balancing act. The old SSDs had old algorithms and old 50nm NAND with loads of cycles to burn through while the new SSDs have better algorithms and less endurant 25nm NAND. One would expect to see both these types last the same because of the compromises made in each case etc. Imagine a SSD with 50nm NAND and a new modern controller !

  9. #1134
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    M4 update:

    175.3810 TiB
    587 hours
    Avg speed 88.74 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 0 to 254.
    P/E 3063.
    MD5 OK.

    Strange development really. AD as gone from 0 to 254. CA has gone from 1 to 254 and CDI reports good health status. Mayby the M4 is hidding something from me.

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110729-1101.PNG
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  10. #1135
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    BAT, unexpected indeed.

    Could you change back to Hex and post a screenshot, it might just be an issue with CDI.

    CA looks correct though, 102% indicates that you are on overtime, showing "Good" is a bug though
    -
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  11. #1136
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A.T View Post

    Strange development really. AD as gone from 0 to 254. CA has gone from 1 to 254 and CDI reports good health status. Mayby the M4 is hidding something from me.
    Well, you behaved like a nice customer with alot of needs from writing perspective, so probably it decided to give you credit for a few more months to make you happy

    Ontopic: If there is no displaying issue, then is probably just a nice bug regarded to the way this is decremented (a fanatic OOP programmer who just hate "if" statements).

  12. #1137
    Moderator Anvil's Avatar
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    196.04TB Host writes
    Reallocated sector count : 6

    MD5 OK, 34.92MiB/s on avg (25.25 hours)
    -
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  13. #1138
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anvil View Post
    BAT, unexpected indeed.

    Could you change back to Hex and post a screenshot, it might just be an issue with CDI.

    CA looks correct though, 102% indicates that you are on overtime, showing "Good" is a bug though
    Here is a screenshot with hex
    M4-CDI-HEX.PNG

    Quote Originally Posted by sergiu View Post
    Well, you behaved like a nice customer with alot of needs from writing perspective, so probably it decided to give you credit for a few more months to make you happy

    Ontopic: If there is no displaying issue, then is probably just a nice bug regarded to the way this is decremented (a fanatic OOP programmer who just hate "if" statements).
    Always nice to get more for free

    There has been no other indications of something wrong with the m4 you guys are probably right.
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  14. #1139
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    253.5TB. 33 reallocated sectors. That value which I believe to be the drive wear is 126.

  15. #1140
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    C300 Update

    121.79TiB, 59 MWI, 2058 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocation, 61.95MiB/sec (116hrs average), MD5 OK.

  16. #1141
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    Sorry it took so long to update, I fighting a redirect/advert trojan I can't seem to get rid of
    Had to stop Anvil's app for about 4 hours this morning, Restarted and running now.

    2.81TiB, MWI 98, 111 Raw Wear, 37.99MiB/s

    I feel lack of TRIM is killing it.

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-07.29.2011.jpg

    Looks like I would need to stop every 5 loops to run wiper tool to get some good avg speeds, but wouldn't that hurt the drive wear as well???
    Last edited by bluestang; 07-29-2011 at 09:14 AM.
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  17. #1142
    uzbuk
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnw View Post
    Nice! Thanks for posting the pictures.

    So, 40GB, 80GB, and 120GB Intel 320 models all have 8GiB of flash for parity. The 160GB model has 16GiB, 300GB has 20GiB, 600GB has 40GiB for parity.

    It is also interesting that the only 320 models that have flash on the back of the circuit board are the 160GB and 600GB models.
    Hello tech guys. I am happy to find so many knowledgeable people in the same place.

    I have two queries. it would be nice to have your replies on these matters.
    1. Query of purpose: I have an Asus x51H notebook with 80GB SATA HDD from Hitachi. I do not know what kind of SATA port is that; I rpesume SATA 2. Now, I want to replace that with an Intel SSD 120GB or 160GB (depends on price lowering in the next two months). As this model of llaptop is very rarely covered by online resources, i am having a hard time figuring out what i can add and what i can't. i really need to know if these SSDs are compatible with my notebook.
    ** I use Win XP only. i won't switch to Win 7 even if someone pays me 100 bucks.

    2. Query of curiosity: since i was a kid, whenever i see some empty place for a microchip on a circuit board, i always wonder if i solder one of those chips in the empty spaces, will the capacity go up? like in the case of the 80GB SSD board. just curious.
    Last edited by uzbuk; 07-29-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  18. #1143
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestang View Post
    M225->Vertex Turbo 64GB Update:

    Sorry it took so long to update, I fighting a redirect/advert trojan I can't seem to get rid of
    Had to stop Anvil's app for about 4 hours this morning, Restarted and running now.

    2.81TiB, MWI 98, 111 Raw Wear, 37.99MiB/s

    I feel lack of TRIM is killing it.

    CDI-M225-OCZ-VERTEX-TURBO-07.29.2011.jpg

    Looks like I would need to stop every 5 loops to run wiper tool to get some good avg speeds, but wouldn't that hurt the drive wear as well???
    I'd err on the side of not doing anything, but I guess do what you would do with it in normal use, if you can.

    I don't know how wiper works...is it TRIM retrofitted for Indilinx?

    Forgot to ask this earlier: what do you have in terms of static data? johnw, B.A.T, and I all have ~39GiB of static data on our 64GB drives and leave 12GiB free via Anvil's app. You can use Anvil's app to make the static data by killing it from Task Manager when the counter gets up to 39GiB, rename the TEST folder, and then restart the app like nothing ever happened.

  19. #1144
    Xtreme Addict bluestang's Avatar
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    32.8GB static, 26.7GB free, and 12GB left free via Anvi's app.

    Wiper is an Indilinx Tool for user initiated Garbage Collection.
    Home PC -- Cruncher #1
    GA-P67A-UD4-B3 BIOS F8 modded, i7-2600k (L051B138) @ 4.5 GHz, 1.260v full load, HT Enabled, Corsair H70 exhausted @ 1600rpm
    Samsung Green 2x4GB @2133 C10, Gigabyte 7950 @1200/1250, Vertex 4 128GB, 2x3TB WD Red, F4EG 2TB, BR Burner, Win7 Ult x64, CM690, HX750

    Work PC -- Cruncher #2 ... Crucial M225 64GB SSD Donated to Endurance Testing (Died at 968 TB of writes...no that is not a typo!)
    GA-EP45T-UD3LR BIOS F10 modded, Q6600 G0 VID 1.212 (L731B536), 3.6 GHz 9x400 @ 1.312v full load, Zerotherm Zen FZ120
    OCZ 2x2GB DDR3-1600MHz C7, Sapphire 6970 @955/1475, Vertex 2 60GB, 2x500GB Hitachi R1, Win7 Ent x64, Centurion 590, XFX PRO650W

    Music System
    SB Server->SB Touch w/Android Tablet as a remote->S/PDIF->Kenwood Sovereign VR-4090B->JBL Studio Series Floorstanding Speakers

    BTC: 1K91nTPceMcap66AhDBgMx8t87TomgAABH LTC: LNqbVqebzpMwuZHq95qRTfP73kR2FRZWS4

  20. #1145
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    IMHO for this test it is best to use Windows 7 or Linux as they support TRIM and the 1916 or similar latest Indilinx firmware otherwise the test would be pretty much unrealistic and meaningless to most people. I expect the drive to last less than 10 TB because the Indilinx drives have an older algo which has high write amplification.

  21. #1146
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bluestang View Post
    32.8GB static, 26.7GB free, and 12GB left free via Anvi's app.

    Wiper is an Indilinx Tool for user initiated Garbage Collection.
    Looked into Wiper and it is just a retrofitted and manually activated TRIM. If you feel you would run it every TB or so in real life, then do that

    32.8GB static is close enough to what the rest of us with 64GB are doing, and a far cry from an empty drive.

    Quote Originally Posted by bulanula View Post
    IMHO for this test it is best to use Windows 7 or Linux as they support TRIM and the 1916 or similar latest Indilinx firmware otherwise the test would be pretty much unrealistic and meaningless to most people. I expect the drive to last less than 10 TB because the Indilinx drives have an older algo which has high write amplification.
    WA to date is only ~2.4x on the Indilinx, but it is very early to declare it so low (at an even later point in the test, the Samsung's was 'only' 3.5x). At the current rate, the M225->Vertex Turbo is slated to last 144TiB. While a 50x WA would be interesting to see, doesn't look like we will with the M225->Vertex Turbo.

    Charts next post....new color scheme out of necessity, charts look very different now (sort of ran out of colors).

  22. #1147
    Admin Vapor's Avatar
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    Charts Updated

    Like I said, new color scheme. Intels are blue, Crucials are red, SandForces are green; newer/bigger within each color gets darker shades. Purple/aqua/orange are for Samsung 470, M225->Vertex Turbo, and whatever gets added later; each color can also be split for multiple shades later if needed.

    Host Writes So Far

    Jul29HostBar.png

    Jul29HostLine.png


    Normalized Writes So Far
    The SSDs are not all the same size, these charts normalize for available NAND capacity.

    Jul29NormBar.png

    Jul29NormLine.png


    Write Days So Far
    Not all SSDs write at the same speed, these charts factor out write speeds and look at endurance as a function of time.

    Jul29WDBar.png

    Jul29WDLine.png


    Host Writes vs. NAND Writes and Write Amplication
    Based on reported or calculated NAND cycles from wear SMART values divided by total writes.

    Jul29WrNAND.png

    Jul29WrNANDlog.png

    Jul29Wrplifi.png

  23. #1148
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    M4 update:

    181.5208 TiB
    607 hours
    Avg speed 88.74 MiB/s.
    AD gone from 254 to 251.
    P/E 3171.
    MD5 OK.
    Still no reallocated sectors

    M4-CT064 M4SSD2 SATA Disk Device_1GB-20110730-0710.PNG
    1: AMD FX-8150-Sabertooth 990FX-8GB Corsair XMS3-C300 256GB-Gainward GTX 570-HX-750
    2: Phenom II X6 1100T-Asus M4A89TD Pro/usb3-8GB Corsair Dominator-Gainward GTX 460SE/-X25-V 40GB-(Crucial m4 64GB /Intel X25-M G1 80GB/X25-E 64GB/Mtron 7025/Vertex 1 donated to endurance testing)
    3: Asus U31JG - X25-M G2 160GB

  24. #1149
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    Double C300 Update

    Last night just before I went to bed:
    124.23TiB, 58 MWI, 2100 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocation, 61.9MiB/sec, MD5 OK

    Just now:
    127.213TiB, 57 MWI, 2150 raw wear, 2048/1 reallocation, 61.95MiB/sec, MD5 OK


    Got the SF-1200 60GB with no LTT in my hands today Will post the intake screenshot and info then it's onto some compression tests then when that's done it's back to the endurance testing here

  25. #1150
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    SF-1200 nLTT 60GB intake benchmarks and SMART:

    SMART:
    S0_00t.PNG

    0-fill Anvil Benchmark:
    SInitial0fill.png

    46% Comp. Anvil Benchmark:
    SInitial46perc.png

    101% Comp. Anvil Benchmark:
    SInitial101perc.png

    AS-SSD:
    SInitialASSSD.PNG



    Will be running with 35.9GiB of static data (from the 46% compression setting) and 12GB free. Not sure if I'll use 46%, 67%, or a no dedup variety of those for the actual testing.

    Onto compression testing now, though

    Also of note, I lost the extra (F2-F8) SMART values from the C300 when I started back up....I must have done some debug sequence to get them before

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