Apple tracks position of iPhone and iPad 3G users

[defect9]

yet another reason to like disposeable phones and minute cards bought with cash.

[Serra]

You all look at it in a way that you feel victimised

I see it as a protection measure

stop asking for pity

You know, until now I hadn't considered how they are saving people from ads and services that are not targeted at their demographic (as determined with probability based on geographic locale).

If you had said the government was tracking peoples locations I could see where this argument was coming from... but not if Apple (or Google) is tracking your location.

[Brother Esau]

Protecting who from whom?

Yes, exactly! Personally what I do is my business alone, I am doing nothing wrong but regardless of that, I feel that what I do or where I go is nobody's damn business but my own!

So yes I am not at all comfortable with any of this and yes I own a iPhone.

[[XC] Synthetickiller]

yet another reason to like disposeable phones and minute cards bought with cash.

Two things come to mind: Mafia & drug dealers.

That said, where's my disposable phone?

[NEOAethyr]

Actually drug dealers have black berries, iphones and droids.

I have an old nokia prepaid phone.
Still, I don't like buying min cards, they are so expensive.

Wish I had the cable and soft to re-program it, then I wouldn't be paying up the ying yang for texts.

[demonkevy666]

Totally legal to spy on people around you these days :\.
Called patriot act.

To be honest I just started study on this stuff.
I'm more interested in the demographics then the methodology at this point.

Anyways we are probably gonna see a whole lot more of this tracking stuff.

Protecting who from whom?

the answer is in the that quote above.

it's both positive and negative here.
double edge sword....

[MrMojoZ]

So yes I am not at all comfortable with any of this and yes I own a iPhone.

Makes all your "Iphone is pimps!!!!!!" posts pretty damn funny.

[mdzcpa]

All your geo-locations are belong to us!

[Brother Esau]

Makes all your "Iphone is pimps!!!!!!" posts pretty damn funny.

That is Funny isn't it?

[M.Beier]

you all look at it in a way that you feel victimised

i see it as a protection measure

stop asking for pity

1984

[m^2]

the answer is in the that quote above.

it's both positive and negative here.
double edge sword....

No, it's not double edged. Your phone is protecting the world from yourself. You get nothing for having such misfeature on your phone. If we considered it to be used only for good purposes, you would be exactly as secure whether you bought a tracking phone or another.
Now add abuses which will be happening and it becomes clear that you loose security. And you loose privacy, a lot of it.
It's interesting how democracy goes to totalitarianism. And goes fast.

[JohnZS]

I think this has all been blown out of proportion.
Before anyone here accuses me of being a pretentious Apple Fanboy sheep a quick search of this forum will see I am quite the Anti-Apple Trolling Hater.
HOWEVER
What we have here is purely locational history file which is stored on a users' PC or Mac. It does not upload to Apple, it does not upload to the CIA, it just sits there.
Believe it or not the users can turn this feature off without Jailbreaking (however I think it is hidden somewhere quite obscure, compared to on my Android).
As to why Apple devices gather this information is anybodies guess?!
Perhaps even something as innocent as improving cellular coverage?
Or early work on a "phone tracker" so if your phone is stolen you can track it down?!

I am not really sure about the ethics behind it, yes it is quite creepy just knowing what is stored, but again is a history really that harmful, after all it is only the history of the phone, as opposed to your person (if that makes sense).
John

[NEOAethyr]

Then again if it's really being used for that then it's saving the gov money.
And I'm sure it would work extremely well for them too.
It's actually not a bad idea.

But I'm betting it's used against the common person and there little groups more then it's used against actual terrorism.

The reason why I'm interesting in the demographics...
Is because they are interested in any upswing in popularity for any type of political movement and so on.
If it doesn't adhere to republican or democrat, then by all means you are suspect...

There's a gov website that shares video's and pdf's, on what to look for and who to call, etc.
I can't remember anything about it though.
I think I del the video and pdf I had because the info was so broad it didn't help me determain any demographic info.

There's bases of operation even here in michigan for this stuff.
Anyways it's got enough people's attention that they are afraid to talk about political activity around there area over the phone.

I tried asking my cousin that lives in TN about some stuff but..., it wasn't easy to get him to talk, and he wouldn't talk about much over the phone.

How are we supposed to communicate with each other and come to an understanding if everyone becomes so secretive :|.


Edit:
It cold be as JohnZS said above.
Could be anything.

It won't stop people from buying the iphone, nor should it I suppose.
I suppose, if you believe you are doing nothing wrong you should not really worry about it aye .
But then again, is it's apple's business to invade your privacy...

Heard a while back that jobs wanted to put adware into his os.
So something like this phone tracking thing doesn't really surprise me so much.

[m^2]

I think this has all been blown out of proportion.

Well, I kinda agree we exaggerated it a bit. I think it's very bad, but not terrible right now. It will turn terrible when the data starts to get used. And the implementation is bad, there are so many entities that can just read it...I wait until malware targets it. The first criminal use that I find is better targeted scams, but sure there are many different ones. Apple wants to use it. So does the police. Breaking speed limits, huh?

And I wonder why didn't they encrypt it. At least they could claim that no scums (other then themselves) have access to it.

What we have here is purely locational history file which is stored on a users' PC or Mac. It does not upload to Apple, it does not upload to the CIA, it just sits there.

It's there to be used. What for? I don't know, which suggests Apple wants to make money with it.

Or early work on a "phone tracker" so if your phone is stolen you can track it down?!

Believe it or not the users can turn this feature off without Jailbreaking.

I am not really sure about the ethics behind it, yes it is quite creepy just knowing what is stored, but again is a history really that harmful, after all it is only the history of the phone, as opposed to your person (if that makes sense).
John

Seriously?
How much time does an average person spent more than few meters away from their phone? It tracks you and does it quite well.

[cx-ray]

Believe it or not the users can turn this feature off without Jailbreaking (however I think it is hidden somewhere quite obscure, compared to on my Android).

Currently, Apple still stores tracking data even when the function is disabled.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...249161342.html

[MrMojoZ]

This is why I don't give money to professional liars if I can avoid it:

One MacRumors reader emailed Apple CEO Steve Jobs asking for clarification on the issue while hinting about a switch to Android if adequate explanations are not forthcoming. Jobs reportedly responded, turning the tables by claiming both that Apple does not track users and that Android does while referring to the information about iOS shared in the media as "false".
Q: Steve,

Could you please explain the necessity of the passive location-tracking tool embedded in my iPhone? It's kind of unnerving knowing that my exact location is being recorded at all times. Maybe you could shed some light on this for me before I switch to a Droid. They don't track me.

A: Oh yes they do. We don't track anyone. The info circulating around is false.

Sent from my iPhone

As is Jobs' usual style, his brief comments provide little detail or information to support his claims, and his vagueness leaves things rather open to interpretation.

[celerity]

Currently, Apple still stores tracking data even when the function is disabled.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...249161342.html

No, no, that article is complete nonsense. 'Consolidated.db', the file in question, is a cache file for something called WPS (short for WiFi Positioning System). None of that data is actually sent to Apple. It's a file stored locally on the iPhone.

This is why I don't give money to professional liars if I can avoid it:

He's not lying...

Well, I kinda agree we exaggerated it a bit. I think it's very bad, but not terrible right now. It will turn terrible when the data starts to get used. And the implementation is bad, there are so many entities that can just read it...I wait until malware targets it. The first criminal use that I find is better targeted scams, but sure there are many different ones. Apple wants to use it. So does the police. Breaking speed limits, huh?

No, consolidated.db is owned by root and cannot be accessed using API.

And I wonder why didn't they encrypt it. At least they could claim that no scums (other then themselves) have access to it.

All iOS apps are "sandboxed". They cannot access it. The file is constantly written to in the background and therefore not encrypted. Well, in fact everything on iPhone is encrypted using Full Disk Encryption (although it's not much of use in this case).

[Brother Esau]

The info is for the NSA FBI & CIA and I have long been saying that a cell phone of this nature is evidence to be used against you. a months salary says I'm right!

[MrMojoZ]

He's not lying...

So Apple didn't build location tracking into the iPhone? Thats what the person who e-mailed him asked about. We know they did, and Steve Jobs said the they didn't. You'll notice the question doesn't mention the phone reporting back to Apple, it asks about location storing which is verified to happen. Now the question is why are you lying to cover for Apple?

[NEOAethyr]

I remember when the latest iphone came out and people realized the reception on it sucked.
Jobs said don't hold on the phone while using it, lol.

So asking jobs about this, it's totally obvious what he's gonna say.

Also, if this is just geolocation web stuff, then why is there even a file?
Opera don't need a file stored on the drives to use geolocation...

[Cooper]

I think that is similar to a patrol program...just for marketing BS suckers

[saaya]

hows this news?
wouldnt it be news if apple didnt play big brother?
besides, android is doing the same, at least htc is... as soon as htc sense is running, its keeping track of your location...

[m^2]

No, consolidated.db is owned by root and cannot be accessed using API.


All iOS apps are "sandboxed". They cannot access it. The file is constantly written to in the background and therefore not encrypted. Well, in fact everything on iPhone is encrypted using Full Disk Encryption (although it's not much of use in this case).

There's a program that lets you read it, so it is readable.
http://petewarden.github.com/iPhoneTracker/

[celerity]

So Apple didn't build location tracking into the iPhone? Thats what the person who e-mailed him asked about. We know they did, and Steve Jobs said the they didn't. You'll notice the question doesn't mention the phone reporting back to Apple, it asks about location storing which is verified to happen. Now the question is why are you lying to cover for Apple?

He clearly said Apple doesn't track anybody which is true. When he wrote 'they' I assumed he meant 'Google' and perhaps so did Steve Jobs.

There's a program that lets you read it, so it is readable.
http://petewarden.github.com/iPhoneTracker/

Only for someone who has physical access to the phone.

[MrMojoZ]

He clearly said Apple doesn't track anybody which is true. When he wrote 'they' I assumed he meant 'Google' and perhaps so did Steve Jobs.


Only for someone who has physical access to the phone.

Wrong, the file is saved via itunes backups so you do not need access to the phone to get someones tracking data. And are you really claiming Apple isn't the one responsible for the tracking after they built it into their mobile OS? Jobs lied, get over it. This isn't the first time.