confused about heat transfer properties etc..

[tiro_uspsss]

I'm confused about something.. I have here an [undisclosed] substance, which, when I mix it into a glass of water makes the water freeze much easier.. it also has the power to neutralize 10x the lethal dose of arsenic..

would this substance be beneficial to water-cooling?

[meanmoe]

lol... What temperature does it freeze at? (just because the freezing point move upwards doesn't necessarily mean that it will transfer heat any better... I'd speculate that it's worse.)

But I'd keep it in case of arsenic poisoning...

[tiro_uspsss]

lol... What temperature does it freeze at? (just because the freezing point move upwards doesn't necessarily mean that it will transfer heat any better... I'd speculate that it's worse.)

but i'd keep it in case of arsenic poisoning...

~3-4c

[meanmoe]

then what did you mean by "makes the water freeze much easier"?

[tiro_uspsss]

then what did you mean by "makes the water freeze much easier"?

well, when I mix it with a glass of water put it in the fridge, the water gets partly frozen / icicles, whereas other liquids in the fridge are no where near that, including water itself

[meanmoe]

oh ok... are you sure the freezing point isn't higher than 4C? What's your fridge temp?

[tiro_uspsss]

oh ok... are you sure the freezing point isn't higher than 4C? What's your fridge temp?

lemme check..

fridge is set to 3C.. like I said, no other liquid, water included (in my fridge) will freeze or get icicles.. the water mixed with substance will

[meanmoe]

unfortunately, there's little relation between conductivity and freezing point that I know of.

[tiro_uspsss]

unfortunately, there's little relation between conductivity and freezing point that I know of.

yeah, my knowledge of thermal related stuff isnt all that in-depth either.. maybe someone else might know something

[defect9]

sounds like we need to find Bill Nye and get to the bottom of this

[meanmoe]

yeah, my knowledge of thermal related stuff isnt all that in-depth either.. maybe someone else might know something

my understanding of thermo is in-depth enough to say that the answer to your original question is most likely no.

But you can always do a experiment to prove it to yourself. Put a cup of water and a cup of the mixture in the fridge and take temp and time measurements as they drop to 4 C. Then pull them out and do the same thing on the way up.

[Martinm210]

As far as I know there are really only three properties that affect thermal performace of a coolant:
-Thermal conductivity - like it sound, the ability to move heat across the fluid.
-Volumetric heat capacity - the ability to store heat
-Viscocity-Thickness that impacts friction and pumping power

Water happens to be as good as it gets in a fluid that is safe and practical. Some nano fluids that suspend metal particals can improve on this but they are not very practical and could precipitate those particals over time.
Just look up the properties above, if it's not available or not better than water, then it won't help thermal performance.

[meanmoe]

and those properties are specific to the matter state. Without breaking out my books, I believe that the point of change is defined by the energy state defined by some temp and pressure relationship. (it's been awhile)

so, like Martin said, water is about as good as it gets without volatility or extreme pressures or high viscosity.

Martin, do the nano fluids offer any significant improvements over water?

[StAndrew]

Changing the freezing point shouldnt change the conductive properties. Put a sensor in each cup and measure the change of temp. If the cup with "the substance" drops temps faster, then you might have somthing.

[Church]

meanmoe: If one looks on skinneelab's coolant test, difference was negligible. Imho not worth the price.

[m0r7if3r]

Moe is talking about TRUE nano-fluid, the stuff used in high end machining and crazy, cutting edge servers. I think they're using graphene for the suspension these days, but I also believe that they need an aggrivator or sorts to keep it from settling.

[tiro_uspsss]

my understanding of thermo is in-depth enough to say that the answer to your original question is most likely no.

But you can always do a experiment to prove it to yourself. Put a cup of water and a cup of the mixture in the fridge and take temp and time measurements as they drop to 4 C. Then pull them out and do the same thing on the way up.

Ok I'll try that, probably today too

[meanmoe]

cool. Try as best as you can estimate to ensure that they both in an equal environment (heat and pressure). I don't know how to do this exactly without a lab environment except just to isolate them from everything else like in a little box with the tops covered but make sure they're side by side and equal distance from the fridge walls maybe. I would also include measurements upwards of the 4C point also since you think that it's the freezing point for the other solution and properties change there.

[NaeKuh]

ummm... we want water to be a superfluid.. but at the same time not..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superfluidity

Do i make sense?

its one of those things god cheats us from.. telling us its out there, but we cant play with it in every day cases...

[m0r7if3r]

its one of those things god cheats us from.. telling us its out there, but we cant play with it in every day cases...

like monopole magnets...

[Martinm210]

Moe is talking about TRUE nano-fluid, the stuff used in high end machining and crazy, cutting edge servers. I think they're using graphene for the suspension these days, but I also believe that they need an aggrivator or sorts to keep it from settling.

Here is the nano fluid test that Hes did:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ght=nano+fluid

Another one here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...&postcount=150

Only amounted to half a degree or so..

Who knows what it would do long term though?

[NaeKuh]

Here is the nano fluid test that Hes did:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...ght=nano+fluid

Another one here:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/Forums/...&postcount=150

Only amounted to half a degree or so..

Who knows what it would do long term though?

This is adding particulate to increase fluid transfer.

Trio is adding a subtance which i believe tries to make it less viscous then it is.

The only thing i can see is it would slug the water, which isnt something we really want.
Not to mention getting equalibirum inside the closed loop would be more difficult too.

It would also destory flow.


If its not as potent as im making it sound... then i dont think it would do anything at all inside our systems then. :P

[penguins]

Wow I just read that whole thread about ice dragon's fluid, omg the comment about NaeKuh being a rabid squirrel attacking a trash can ROFL!