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Thread: Japan quakes

  1. #726
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    might be of interest:

    Video of a BWR Reactor which has the same design as the Fukushima plant including a look into the Pressure vehicle:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aU1QQR-xH0w

    It was fully completed in 1978 but a public vote stopped it from becoming operational, now it's used for spare parts, training and the area around the reactor is used for a solar power plant.
    Last edited by generics_user; 03-18-2011 at 09:24 AM.
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  2. #727
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    How are they getting water in now still air dropping? I wonder why they don't make a wicked long eavestroughs or plumbing a direct way in. I just say that since that pic above was showing the core exposed. Is it just me or does it seem like we need to cut down on rods per unit in the future..
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  3. #728
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post
    well, to be fair, they built all those robots cause its challanging to make them do all this... and if you can build robots to do this, your getting closer and closer to a robot that can do all sorts of things... in the long run...

    i think other countries are more focusing on practicality...
    Japan makes many forms of industrial robots, people seem to only relate to what they see on TV, the ones that do cool things.

    Robots not really general purpose and versatile, they are usually built very job specific.
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  4. #729
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    Well.. although this is a very "relaxed" video about the problem, i think that this guy does a really good job explaining the problems inside Fukushima power plant...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBvUtY0PfB8
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  5. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glow9 View Post
    How are they getting water in now still air dropping? I wonder why they don't make a wicked long eavestroughs or plumbing a direct way in. I just say that since that pic above was showing the core exposed.
    Last I checked there were military firetrucks on site with water cannons that could be operated from within the cabin. Civilian firetrucks were first used but having the operators fully exposed to the radiation was deemed unsafe.

    Quote Originally Posted by Glow9 View Post
    Is it just me or does it seem like we need to cut down on rods per unit in the future..
    I think the problem is that these systems are outright expensive on a per unit basis and there are economies of scale within some parts of the design(core?). I'm not intimately familiar with what parts cost more than others but you can see with a lot of powerstations(listing of powerstations around the globe, pretty neat stuff here -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...power_stations) they originally started with smaller reactors and each reactor added was larger. Here are the reactor outputs at Fukushima.

    1 × 460 MW (Unit 1 damaged)
    4 × 784 MW (Units 2, 3, and 4 damaged; Unit 5 experiencing cooling problems)
    1 × 1,100 MW (Unit 6 experiencing cooling problems)
    Reactors planned 2 × 1,380 MW

    Notice the planned reactors. 1.3GW each. That is gigantic in my book and I'm pretty certain there is a financial reason behind it unless they are after the epeen record

    It would be nice to see modern Gen IV reactors put into place. In an ideal world I imagine it would be best to have more little reactors that can be scaled up and down with demand(molten salt reactors can easily do this ). Sadly we don't live in an ideal world.

  6. #731
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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] gomeler View Post
    Last I checked there were military firetrucks on site with water cannons that could be operated from within the cabin. Civilian firetrucks were first used but having the operators fully exposed to the radiation was deemed unsafe.
    We need a robot up in there automated water cannons I'm tellin ya robots ftw! Just sayin we got automated guns to take out missiles dunno why we can't get a more radiation response ready. Seems like same mistakes over and over.

    p.s. anyone know why when typing firefox shoots you to another section of what your writing when your writing. I installed it and I have to say posting on here is a . Like some magic man is pointing his mouse randomly and then bam! I'm writing half way up the page in the wrong sentence again. I think it's a bug with their spell check...
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  7. #732
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_Swizz View Post
    How else could electronics survive in space?
    People survive in Space for months also. Strangely they don't survive so well working around a reactor that's broken. Wonder why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by [XC] riptide View Post
    People survive in Space for months also. Strangely they don't survive so well working around a reactor that's broken. Wonder why?
    It was a rhetorical question.

  9. #734
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    http://www.japanquakemap.com/ - animated earthquake map, starts a bit slow but then later on you're like O.o o.O O.O
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  10. #735
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    Quote Originally Posted by RPGWiZaRD View Post
    http://www.japanquakemap.com/ - animated earthquake map, starts a bit slow but then later on you're like O.o o.O O.O
    Ya. i saw one for New Zealand after their big quake. I had the same reaction.

  11. #736
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    Danger rating is up to 5/7 from 4.. :/
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    Michio Kaku cheerful as usual..

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okHM-Y1-3L0
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    One thing that doesn't make sense to me is they are desperately trying to get the power lines up to power the generators but looking at the buildings I find it hard to believe that all the pumps, pipes, electrical systems are intact. Sure they might get some makeshift pumps in but they could only pump water on and in the reactors and pools. For this to work wouldn't all the containments have to be entact? If not wouldn't it kinda be like trying to pump up a popped balloon; it doesn't work.
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  14. #739
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    On the lighter side of news....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5sakN2hSVxA

    Short anime of what has happened in Japan.
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  15. #740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neoclasiccl View Post
    One thing that doesn't make sense to me is they are desperately trying to get the power lines up to power the generators but looking at the buildings I find it hard to believe that all the pumps, pipes, electrical systems are intact. Sure they might get some makeshift pumps in but they could only pump water on and in the reactors and pools. For this to work wouldn't all the containments have to be entact? If not wouldn't it kinda be like trying to pump up a popped balloon; it doesn't work.
    what you see is the cover of the reactor ( who are open to air ), this can look impressive, don't forget they have got an Earthquake of 9.+ richter. ( now specialist have calculate it to 9.4 ).... but this have happend after the reactors cover explode due to the pressure of the Hydrogen ( water used for cool the fuel is transformed in Hydrogen, the pressure increase and .. well you understand what happend next ) ... the problem at start it's they was not able to cooldown the reactors enough and so the water have become Hydrogen ( loaded of different substance toxic and radioactivity ) ... the problem now is not the cover but the fuel bar who need be constantly cool for don't pass from Fiscion ( normal Thermo nuclear controlled operations ) to Fusion... ( uncontrolled operations, what have happend in Tschernobyl in less of some hours ) .. but if really they can't stabilise it, the only solution will be to cover down all the installation ( concrete and sand sarchophage ).. But it's not Russia.. it's an isle, and so all the life in isle in short, half and long term will be unusable... ) and the damage to the isle ( water, earth contamined and so all life in this region ) this will be so dramatic ( if it can be more ) they try now to don't go to this solution. cause you can cover it for don't get a massive cloud who will hit the peoples but you can't stop what will happend next ( the total contamination of the ground, water etc ) and this is actually impossible to revert..
    Last edited by Lanek; 03-18-2011 at 03:42 PM.
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  16. #741
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    I thought they said the containment vessells were cracked on some of the reactors?
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  17. #742
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    on the 3 and 4, but don't forget, now the problem is no more the radioactivity released on air, but the real problem is to don't arrive to uncontrollable fusion of the fuel bar... ( the only way is to cool down the fuel bar )
    As all the vessel are completelly down ( it's a bit more complicate with the reactors 4 as it's an open vessel ), the only way is to cool down the matters ( who enter in fusion in the contact with the air ),
    and so don't go to a similar tcherchnobyl explosion....Whatever is the vessel is open, you need put enough water ( who evaporate in hydrogen ) for keep the bar submerged and cool..... the water can seems a " low" solution, but actually all is in the temperatures of the bar who have been push outisde the reactors ( after the earthquake, it's a securitiy system, the reactor release the bar and in the vessel who are then continuously refresh, immerged in the water, but this exactly where the problem have occur, as the all the safety system have been destroyed and bring unusable after the tsunami who have follow.... the temperature have increase and the level of Hydrogen pressure have make explode the covers of the reactors ......... )
    Last edited by Lanek; 03-18-2011 at 04:02 PM.
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  18. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lanek View Post
    on the 3 and 4, but don't forget, now the problem is no more the radioactivity released on air, but the real problem is to don't arrive to uncontrollable fusion of the fuel bar... ( the only way is to cool down the fuel bar )
    Fission, not fusion. Not even the sun can fuse uranium.

    http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video...hi.itn?hpt=Mid

    So much for the tsunami protection walls...
    Last edited by Hornet331; 03-18-2011 at 05:14 PM.

  19. #744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesrt2004 View Post
    Danger rating is up to 5/7 from 4.. :/
    Which is still under-rating the event... 3mile was 5/7 and now we have 3 reactors and 4 reactor pools in trouble, all of which are bigger than the 3mile reactor too...

    Dctokyo, the fukushima reactor webcam shows a huge cloud of steam?
    Which reactor is it monitoring?
    Is it dai ichi or ni?

    BTW, cnns cover of this event has been terrible.
    Today they showed a map where they even labeled the reactors wrong.
    1 3 2 4 lol Wtf? ^^
    Last edited by saaya; 03-18-2011 at 06:01 PM.

  20. #745
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hornet331 View Post
    So much for the tsunami protection walls...
    Sounds easy, but a simple wall can't overcome the pressure of a tsunami.

    Take the Japan tsunami as an example, the wall has to sustain more than 65000 newtons per square meter of pressure, calculated from an assumed 6m height of the tsunami.

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    Not only that, even you "stop" the first wave of water theres so much water mass still coming that way. The water would just keep pouring in until the water runs over the wall or brakes it. At least in these powerful scenarios.
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  22. #747
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    Quote Originally Posted by saaya View Post

    Dctokyo, the fukushima reactor webcam shows a huge cloud of steam?
    Which reactor is it monitoring?
    Is it dai ichi or ni?
    Sorry it seems it was not of the reactor, I removed the link
    Last edited by dctokyo; 03-18-2011 at 10:02 PM.

  23. #748
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    I found some realtime radiation level map data, some official like stuff here:
    https://cdxnode64.epa.gov/radnet-public/showMap.do

    Unfortunately it's only for the us.
    But it's at least a start, a good chunk of src's in the us isn't to bad...

    I noticed in one of the cnn video's they were monitoring the smoke plume I think, but they didn't mention it...
    I'm thinking of going to look for that data again...

    Can someone interpret the levels seen in some of the California data?
    I'm to lazy lol, I found the data, I'm just to lazy to figuer out how to read it.

    Edit:
    Oh it had hawaii too.
    Can someone interpret this... ?

    Fixed Monitor Location: HI: HONOLULU
    Measurement Start Date/Time: 03/19/2011 12:12:12 AM
    Measurement End Date/Time: 03/19/2011 01:12:20 AM
    Beta Gross Count Rate (CPM): 0
    Gamma Energy Range 2 Gross(CPM): 1053
    Gamma Energy Range 3 Gross(CPM): 619
    Gamma Energy Range 4 Gross(CPM): 194
    Gamma Energy Range 5 Gross(CPM): 99
    Gamma Energy Range 6 Gross(CPM): 64
    Gamma Energy Range 7 Gross(CPM): 71
    Gamma Energy Range 8 Gross(CPM): 54
    Gamma Energy Range 9 Gross(CPM): 34
    Gamma Energy Range 10 Gross(CPM): 78

    Fixed Monitor Location: CA: SAN FRANCISCO
    Measurement Start Date/Time: 03/18/2011 11:48:32 PM
    Measurement End Date/Time: 03/19/2011 12:48:39 AM
    Beta Gross Count Rate (CPM): 16
    Gamma Energy Range 2 Gross(CPM): 1958
    Gamma Energy Range 3 Gross(CPM): 1249
    Gamma Energy Range 4 Gross(CPM): 368
    Gamma Energy Range 5 Gross(CPM): 196
    Gamma Energy Range 6 Gross(CPM): 130
    Gamma Energy Range 7 Gross(CPM): 152
    Gamma Energy Range 8 Gross(CPM): 98
    Gamma Energy Range 9 Gross(CPM): 29
    Gamma Energy Range 10 Gross(CPM): 37
    Last edited by NEOAethyr; 03-18-2011 at 07:05 PM.


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  24. #749
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    nothing to discut about this value, thoses have absolutely no interest untill you want sell some pills ...

    in another extend thoses values have absolutely nothing to do with Japan actual problems. they are normal value for the region .. nothing more or less ..

    What peoples living in Tokyo want is the real value in their town now .... the International Atomic Energy Ageny is now in Tokyo recording the value....

    If you want to follow them, actually there's a tokyo guys who are taken the mesure completely indepandtly and post them in twitter and fb.
    Last edited by Lanek; 03-18-2011 at 08:48 PM.
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  25. #750
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    So what radiation levels are they seeing in Tokyo?
    No news at all today, so much for transparency Mr kan...

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