Thoughts

[Disposibleteen]

I want to apologize for this semi lengthy post but I just had some things I have been thinking about recently and wanted to get someone else's take on. I have only recently (relatively speaking) joined this team as I'm sure many of you know. I don't post post on the forums much mostly I just read but something has been bugging me. When I first joined I had a measly dual core Pentium chip that put out almost nothing per day. I recently upgraded to an I7 950 though which obviously puts out much more. I track my stats for WCG pretty close, this is usually the first thing I do when I log into XS is look at my stats and see how my ranking has changed. I have noticed that my RAC has been improving steadily as time goes on because of the higher output of the I7 over my old Pentium. This is all well and good and I love to see myself move up in RAC rank but this is also where I notice something that bothers me. As of my typing this I am ranked at 161 out of 1911 total. How is it that on a forum such as this one there are only 161 people who have a chip in their rig that is better than the one I currently run. I should be much much lower than I am mainly because for day to day duties I only keep this thing clocked at 3.2GHz. I7 950s are pretty common around XS right now as they can be had cheap and have pretty good OC potential. I guess what I am asking in all of this mess is why do we not see more people join this team with their I7 rigs and put out some really high numbers. On a forum such as this one I would expect to be ranked much lower in average daily output than at least 50% of the community because I am usually slow to upgrade. This unfortunately is not the case when it comes to WCG and I think it should be. If we could get more people on XS aware and excited I think realistically we could double our total team output per day easy.

[[XC] Oj101]

We've had the Supercomputer weeks twice but it doesn't do as much as you'd think. In a nutshell, people just don't care.

[shoota]

^this

[[XC] Oj101]

I just noticed I got my second sapphire, my first one for cancer

Wait, wrong badge, it's not cancer. Oh well, time to shift everything I have to the cause

[[XC] hipno650]

I had the same thing happen when I joined medical based DC projects... I always wondered why people would not at least try it out. and to be honest WAY back in the day a bunch of hardcore members and admins went on a recruiting phase emailing all the members making posted in ever section to help bring awareness to WCG and other projects and we did get a few more members because of it. but one thing we did not bargain for is we found a bunch of members on XS were very hostile to any sort of DC activity. they brought up a whole manner of reasons a few of them legitimate but most of them full of holes classic hostile internet behavior. I don't think we have done anything since then as it is a privilege for us to use this forum and we would rather not make a bad name for ourselves by "trying to force our DC views on people"

to be honest man LOTS of people know about what we do but lots of people also just don't care. it's almost impossible for people not to notice one of our sigs or avatars or titles....

I find that allot of people on the team have some sort of personal connection with what we are trying to fight and that serves as a reason for the to crunch even when we don't see any immediate results of the work we do.

I think it goes a pretty long way to show the mindset of the modern world. so many people (especially in North America) have very little interest in other peoples struggles or the evolution of the human race....

One thing that would be a major boost to the number of people participating in DC would be massive results coming out of it. if DC helped provide a major cancer treatment or found a cure for something then people all around the world would sit up and take notice. unfortunately for the world this is anything but a small project to undertake. as some of the work is mind blowingly complex. but then again that is why we crunch on....

[[XC] Oj101]

What hipno said. I crunch as cancer runs in my family, with a lot of the males not making 60. For the same reason I like CEP2 as I strongly believe that pollution is a major factor in our absurdly high cancer rate. You don't see the people in deepest, darkest Africa or the Aborigines sitting with cancer and the one big difference is the clarity of the air. Do I believe that we'll find a cure before I get to the age of 60? I like to think so, but in all likelihood it won't happen. That doesn't mean I can't help future generations though

[[XC] hipno650]

What hipno said. I crunch as cancer runs in my family, with a lot of the males not making 60. For the same reason I like CEP2 as I strongly believe that pollution is a major factor in our absurdly high cancer rate. You don't see the people in deepest, darkest Africa or the Aborigines sitting with cancer and the one big difference is the clarity of the air. Do I believe that we'll find a cure before I get to the age of 60? I like to think so, but in all likelihood it won't happen. That doesn't mean I can't help future generations though

that all depends on how old you are now. if your 59 then you might be right. But with the sheer volume of work we are doing I think it would be almost impossible NOT to find some sort of major break through or cure in the next 20 years....

BTW my Dad is visiting South Africa ATM for business he says it's a very beautiful place mind you anything is better then -25 degrees....

[Disposibleteen]

I can see people not caring enough to bother but please this thing is ridiculously easy to install and setup. With all the stickies out there you can have this thing installed, setup and running in under 10 minutes and never even have to think about it again.

I seriously cannot think of a good reason a person would not run this project on at least one of their machines. Power costs can't be it, for my electric bill in January 2011 v Jan 2010 (i joined in Dec 2010) it was a measly $8 difference. This is less than many people spend on fast food in a day or cigarettes.

Lower total machine life also cannot be it. I'm sure there are a few on this team that run relatively old hardware and besides the average XS user will more than likely upgrade to new equipment soon enough to make this a moot point anyway.

[D_A]

I have a P4 2.4GHz chip running a server unit next to me that spent years running WCG 24/7. Crunching 100% (the WCG default is 60% btw) only shortens the life of your system is you don't maintain it. Leaving a system running on a constant load will actually end up increasing it's lifespan (measured in run time, not calendar time) since it's running at a constant temperature. Wild temperature changes cause components to expand and contract, eventually causing mechanical failures you might not be able to see (think cracked solder connections and pins). Of course running things over rated voltages will also shorten their lifespan, so it's all a a bit of a trade off once you start pushing things.

[lkiller123]

Yeah, it sort of pisses me off when my friends just give me the reply "oh, no thanks." As if it is some sort of McD supersizing offer. I tried to explain it to them how it will help cancer, but they only believe that it is some kind of virus that borgs your computer. I actually had a couple of them ask me "why are you wasting electricity for it?"

[Otis11]

And there you go... these guys here hit it head on.

Just a note - I've found it's actually more effective with most of my friends if I talk about the points and show them graphs on free-DC than if I actually talk about the science... :rollseyes:

If we could get everyone on XS to sign up, I wouldn't even be in the top 1000, but I'd be more happy than if I were in the top 10.

[Rise]

this is why I put my video out on youtube a while back talking about WCG and why I do it. It was a painful thing for me to do but unless you can create some sort of emotional connection, people will never do it. That is the most unfortunate part of it because you won't see people here to help the cause until it's already too late.

that said, the people who ARE here are a ing fantastic group of people. they are some of the most welcoming people i've never met and i am proud to tell people of what we do as a team here. while I'd like to see everyone with a computer crunching for a cure, I also have to thank those who already are.

[bearcatrp]

Sorry to say but it's all over America who doesn't give a rats %#^ about anyone but themselves. Rarely do I find folks helping strangers wherever. Our country has been getting worst over the last 20 years. Friggin sad! I get the same BS when I bring up WCG. I get that "I don't give a f#%k" attitude. But these folks will be right up front to receive the offerings from others hard work like they deserve it. For me, I'll crunch until the day I die!

[josh1980]

Disclaimer: I'm one of the top 5 in the forum for PPD for GPUGRID, and I have built 5 machines that are all core i7s overclocked solely to support WCG. :P

In some ways we, as a forum, are in conflict with ourselves. We are all xtreme, ocing our CPUs, ocing our GPUs, trying to tweak our RAID arrays and RAM timings to get every single 1/10th of a percent increase in performance we possibly can. We also try to remove all that extra bloat that loads up with Windows to maximize free ram and minimize bootup times.

WCG is, by definition, the exact opposite of what we are.

WCG is designed to task the heck out of any computer. For the group of people interested in getting the absolute maximum they can from their hardware, all distributed computing projects are the opposite of what they want. For those of us that also see that DC projects are beneficial, we use them.

[D_A]

I'd disagree somewhat. Getting the most out of your system on WCG just adds the extra consideration of REAL system stability rather than "It'll go long enough for a single Prime run before it crashes". Some extreme (note the spelling) overclockers won't like WCG because it shows their systems up as being flakey regardless of what a couple benching runs say.

[lkiller123]

It all ends up on how one defines Xtreme. We are all Xtreme people here, doing different Xtreme things.

And that is why our forum has different sections, each catering different Xtreme causes.

[Fhqwhgads6680]

D A and I had this talk recently, and I have to vent about it every 6 months or so it seems lol.

As much as it sucks what the others have said is true, if people don't have a reason to care they won't.

I tried years ago to get my group of friends together to start the "Crunchinbuckeyes" But I was the only one that monitored anything and after about a month and a half, I slowly noticed all of my friend's computers stop returning work...

I even had my Mom, who gives hundreds of dollars a month to her church, ask me, " what do you get out of all this".... Guess WCG doesn't buy you direct salvation lol...

In a nutshell, Do what YOU can for the cause, and if others aren't interested the just move on...

[DimmuKlokSC2]

this is why I put my video out on youtube a while back talking about WCG and why I do it. It was a painful thing for me to do but unless you can create some sort of emotional connection, people will never do it.

That video is the reason I found WCG and started crunching and if it wasn't for the emotion in the video, or the length at which you explained WCG and the reason you're apart of it, I would have probably just brushed it off.

I'm not sure why but I guess people just don't want to take the time to learn about WCG. It's also usually pretty foreign to them and they don't participate because they don't fully understand what it is. For the average person, like a friend you know in person, I can understand why they wouldn't take you seriously because of their possible lack of knowledge of technology but I too am curious why there aren't more XS forum goers that participate in the DC projects.

I feel that we need to tug at peoples hearts when explaining WCG in order to get them involved. That is why I like the "What ___ looks like" threads by PoppaGeek because they tend to be sad and they get people emotionally involved. You would hope that saying "Please participate in WCG with us so you can help find a cure for cancer" would be enough, but clearly it isn't. I think if you can get people to know how terrible things really are they might get involved.

What I just said is just my opinion and I'm not positive if it would help get more people involved. Also, sorry about the lengthy post.

[josh1980]

It all ends up on how one defines Xtreme. We are all Xtreme people here, doing different Xtreme things.

And that is why our forum has different sections, each catering different Xtreme causes.

That comment right there blew my hair back. It was short, sweet, concise.. and, you explained why we all still get along even if we don't agree on DC. Outstanding comment!

[D_A]

My comment about the spelling of "extreme" was to differentiate the term from the Xtreme Team ... just to be clear.

[PoppaGeek]

I think everyone is making good valid observations. In the end all we can do is make you tube videos, setup web sites, use signatures on forums, talk it up to whoever and keep crunching. I have tried doing several postings doing everything from "Do you matter? Perspective on significance" and "The Big Picture, why we are here - 56k warning" to "Info and Status on Projects". I do not get a lot of feed back and do not know which ones have influenced anyone or how many. The web iste gets enough traffic that it is worth keeping going and it is now linked on many other web sites and Wiki's. At times I have felt like "what's the use" but then I think that I do not need to know. I just need to do. If I do nothing nothing will happen. If I do something then something might happen. Like the Gandhi quote in my sig Whatever you do will be insignificant, but it is very important that you do it I really do believe it is important we do what we can even if we never do know what it lead to.

Just do it.

[josh1980]

For me, if I could get that damn PXE network booting working I'd be buying 4 or 5 more machines.. I just can't seem to get it working. I got a few new things to try this weekend though

[[XC] Oj101]

Disclaimer: I'm one of the top 5 in the forum for PPD for GPUGRID, and I have built 5 machines that are all core i7s overclocked solely to support WCG. :P

In some ways we, as a forum, are in conflict with ourselves. We are all xtreme, ocing our CPUs, ocing our GPUs, trying to tweak our RAID arrays and RAM timings to get every single 1/10th of a percent increase in performance we possibly can. We also try to remove all that extra bloat that loads up with Windows to maximize free ram and minimize bootup times.

WCG is, by definition, the exact opposite of what we are.

WCG is designed to task the heck out of any computer. For the group of people interested in getting the absolute maximum they can from their hardware, all distributed computing projects are the opposite of what they want. For those of us that also see that DC projects are beneficial, we use them.

What if I'm both? I'm 1MHz HT speed away from a weekly freeze, I like to run WCG at the absolute limit to help the cause.

[Disposibleteen]

First off thanks for all of the replies on this. After reading everyone's comments on this topic I just keep thinking that there has to be a way to drum up some more enthusiasm towards this project. One thing that Rodzilla and I talked about back in the d2ol days was racing each other instead of constantly trying to recruit. I think this is something that still hold valid. We could talk to one of the mods or admins here, setup the rules (keep it simple and inexpensive or no cost at all), have the prize be something that wont cost anyone anything like a custom title in a custom color or something like that. I know it wont drum up a huge amount of enthusiasm because it isn't like winning the latest and greatest hardware but its something. People around the forum see the custom title and ask how they can get theirs. Like I said I'm just throwing ideas around but let me know what you guys think.

Edit:

Looking at the stats the I7920 seems to be the most popular CPU for this team, have the contest be around that. Make cooling a constant (air or water) or even make different classes that people can compete in. Total up each competitor's output for a week or a month or however long and see who wins.

[DimmuKlokSC2]

I think some kind of friendly 1v1 competition would be really fun. Every once and a while someone will challenge someone else but some kind of game around it would be really cool too. I have no idea how you could do it or what the prizes would be, if you even need prizes. For me, the fun of the competition would be enough to want to compete.

On the thought of 1v1 competition, I also think it would be hilarious if it was like a 10v1 and you gather up 10 people to try to match Trn's, or another high producer's, PPD.