Anand Vertex 3 Review

[Computurd]

you got some recognition, and you deserve it that was very confusing for many im sure, made it seem like so much conflicting info out there. man think of how many thousands of people have read that....

[Brahmzy]

Awesome stuff guys - great catch. Please pardon my ignorance, but where are 4K QD-3 random reads typically in action on a normal user's system? Is it the boot sequence, application loads, anything and everything? As opposed to QD32 or QD1... Or rather, how important is this metric to begin with?

Looks like the V3 is a bit lackluster in this particular area. I guess I'm looking for as much justification for purchasing two of these things as I can find.

[zalbard]

There we go. Looks like C300 is still ahead.

[chuchnit]

There we go. Looks like C300 is still ahead.

What's up with that anyways? I keep reading that the 510 controller is a "newer" C300 controller. Why the huge performance difference?

[F@32]

Good to hear. Who actually ended up emailing Anand? I didn't...

And my 70mb/s prediction was almost spot on (:

Wow, he was fast. E-mailed him last night.

[zalbard]

What's up with that anyways? I keep reading that the 510 controller is a "newer" C300 controller. Why the huge performance difference?

People are saying it's firmware. I personally think there is also some hardware difference, either a somewhat different chip, or something else...

[F@32]

Please pardon my ignorance, but where are 4K QD-3 random reads typically in action on a normal user's system? Is it the boot sequence, application loads, anything and everything? As opposed to QD32 or QD1... Or rather, how important is this metric to begin with?

Unfortunately almost no tasks use QD>1 on a desktop. Ao1 and others did awesome job in this thread analyzing it: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...d.php?t=260956

It is sickening that new gen SSD serving popular crowd a coolaid of increased sequential performance...

I'd wait gor G3 25nm, aka 52x series from Intel before jumping the gun on 510 or V3.

[jmke]

Someone call the Shrimp,

you called?

[Computurd]

Holy crap! Zalbard got banned?

[prava]

Holy crap! Zalbard got banned?

Sam_Oslo too

[Computurd]

wow. i heard that zalbard is a casualty of the news section. gotta be careful over there...but the rules do keep the site from devolving into a bunch of flaming fanboys i guess. not to say that is what zalbard or sam_oslo were doing but i do see the need for the rules.


sorry for the off topic

[Nizzen]

Sam_Oslo too

That is not a suprise. He got banned here in Norway too @ diskusjon.no forums

[Computurd]

wow. BanHammers all over the planet!

[Anvil]

"It takes two to tango" as they say.

(The ban Nizzen refers to was years ago, jfyi)

[Manicdan]

there were like 4-6 people banned in a single thread

back on topic, the QD=3 shows the vertex 3 behind the c300, does this mean the old stuff is still just as incredible?

and why does no one review with real tests anymore. i know anand is trying to make their own benchmark suite, but id like to see realistic game/app loads and bootup times.
also i think someone should throw it into a PS3 and see the differences there too, lol. i know im going to be putting my classic Agility in there when i upgrade my desktop.

[Anvil]

It does look like the V3 is a bit behind at low QD.

As you correctly are referring to, it's getting a bit boring with all this QD1 talk, of course it is important but it's like buying a car with the gear-stick locked in 1st gear.

Real-life benchmarks are hard to find, PCMV is OK but it has it's flaws.

edit:
The old stuff is still great, I do believe that some of the speed gains we are seing is directly related to the incredible sequential speeds we are seing.

[Manicdan]

by old stuff i mean c300, not as old as my horribly out dated Agility

too many tests just show off the max sequential speed.
if you really are doing video work, a large traditional raid will offer the same speed, for the same price, and give you 1000x more space. so im not a real fan of PCMV or other tests like that.

i wonder if what we need first is an extensive survey of what needs people filled when buying an SSD, so reviewers can get a hint.

i did see one review with an SSD thrown into a console, (just so happen to be an Agility, and it just so happen to be a game i play, GT5), and load times for maps were dropped nearly in half across the board, and load times for menus were all dropped aswell. people who play that game will know how much it sucks to move around and how long the wait can be (half cause of the PSN, and half cause of the disk)

[Computurd]

The old stuff is still great, I do believe that some of the speed gains we are seing is directly related to the incredible sequential speeds we are seing

excellent point. even i get blinded by the 4k qd 1 jazz...and i shouldnt the sequential is very very important as well.

70 percent in gaming usage.

[Anvil]

^^
I was referring to C300s, Vertex 2s, G2,...

Finding a common type of benchmark is almost impossible, PCMV is a bit of everything but it's getting dated.

Creating such a benchmark on a forum like this?, I don't know, benchmarking is actually a lot of work.
A survey would be OK, it would at least show some sort of demand for benchmarks outside the usual ones.

@CT
We need both random and sequentials, your new testrig should make it possible to solve some of these questions

[F@32]

excellent point. even i get blinded by the 4k qd 1 jazz...and i shouldnt the sequential is very very important as well.

70 percent in gaming usage.

Sequential is there, but looking at http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/...&postcount=159 it never goes above 100MB/s

[Anvil]

I'd say that it depends on the computer as such and the level of OC, a number of factors.

[Ao1]

4K QD1 is key for most tasks, but I think there is a ceiling at which this performance metric can be utilised.

I can’t really explain this well, or even be sure it is correct, but it seems that priorities are set within the OS I/O stack to suit the poor performance of HDD.
As an example when I boot I have to manually interact with a program as it loads. Only after I have done this will the next app load. It the OS I/O stack overloaded a HDD with multiple concurrent tasks the HDD would seize up. It doesn't seem to be SSD aware.

The other issue I have not really looked at yet is the impact of sequential I/O’s that are interspersed with small random reads. This is what appears to happen with game playing.

I guess also that there are plenty of other factors like the CPU & GPU will also have a big impact.

I don’t really know......for discussion really.

[Anvil]

Anyone else having issues with this iometer Fileserver pattern performed by TomsHardware Link

Vertex 3 is great but having 55.000-60.000 iops at QD1, i think not, unless there are a lot of workers, which in turn means that QD needs to be multiplied by # of workers.

I haven't found their definition of the fileserver pattern but originally (as defined by Intel) it is as follows

Fileserver_pattern.PNG

thg_fileserver.PNG

edit:
pcper performed the fileserver benchmark and it looks correct. Link to pcper
pcper_fileserver.JPG

[Brahmzy]

Argh. March 21st cannot come quick enough!

[johnw]

Anyone else having issues with this iometer Fileserver pattern performed by TomsHardware Link

60K IOPS at QD=1 is hard to believe. But it seems there is something different with the Vertex 3 at QD=1. Different from other SSDs. I'm not sure if it will lead to high performance in real usage, but look at CDM 4KB read, 35-37MB/s for Vertex 3. That is higher than I have seen for any single SSD. Of course, AS-SSD only reads about 20MB/s for Vertex 3.

So there is something about the Vertex 3 that can result in some benchmarks measuring very high QD=1 values in some situations. I have no guesses yet what that may be.