Did you restart the rig after the crack? Or was all this during the same windows session? I thought the pot you guys used was copper and aluminum?
Did you restart the rig after the crack? Or was all this during the same windows session? I thought the pot you guys used was copper and aluminum?
just did a little edit you maybe haven't read yet
we used like 3 or 4 different pot designs on that card - that was when stummerwinter decided to build his own new pot. the "fill in" part is alu but the base is CU. that crack definitily does not come from it due to the MHZ-issues I explained some minutes earlier.
So we can rule out that this crack comes from the container itself. It must be something related to HS / DIE or HS / Pot.
I think marcus has a hint which paste works best but I can't remember atm (sitting in a hotel far away from home after a "monstrous" set of weizen )
| '12 IvyBridge - "ticks different"... | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round I by SoF | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round II by angoholic & stummerwinter
| '11 The SandyBridge madness... | AwardFabrik / Team LDK OC-Season 2011/2012 Opening Event
| '10 Gulftown LaunchDay OC round up @ASUS RIIE | 3DM05 2x GPU WR LIVE @Cebit 2010 @ASUS MIIIE | SandyBridge arrived @ASUS P8P67
| '09 Foxconn Avenger | E8600 | Foxconn A79A-S | Phenom II 940 BE | LaunchDay Phenom II OC round up
| '08 7.438s 1m LN2 | AMD 1m WR LN2 | 2nd AOCM | Phenom II teasing
| '07 100% E2140 | 106.5% E2160 | 100% E4500 | 103% E4400 | 5508 MHZ E6850 | 7250 MHZ P4 641 126.5% by SoF and AwardFabrik Crew all on Gigabyte DS3P c? and LN2...
| '06 3800+ X2 Manchester 0531TPEW noHS 3201MHZ c? | 3200+ Venice noHS 3279MHZ c? | Opteron 148 0536CABYE 3405MHZ c? all on Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI compressorcooled
| '05 3500+[NC], 3000+[W], 2x 3200+[W], 3500+[NC], 3200+[V] 0516GPDW
Originally Posted by saaya
www.teampclab.pl
MOA 2009 Poland #2, AMD Black Ops 2010, MOA 2011 Poland #1, MOA 2011 EMEA #12
Test bench: empty
Hey SoF,
The issue you discribe isnt really new. Me and elmor experienced the same when pretesting 480 Lightning before MOA 2010 finals. We're using OCZ Freeze thermalpaste. It's conductivity seems great, until around -160 when it suddently freezes and cracks. Here's some data about that: link
one workaround would be to contestly bench and not stay in idle for long, so even with the VGA pot filled the GPU itself will not get any colder than -160. Or when things crash and you may need to reboot and such ... always keep high voltage applied. VID mod with +400 like elmor and kinc posted should work great i would imagine. At the time when running Lightning, we didnt do any such mods, and had do keep stuff warm with heatguns.
So when hearing that crack, you'd definitly have to back off and let the card and thermalpaste heat up a bit. Then things should be just fine
Last edited by ME4ME; 03-21-2011 at 01:26 PM.
GOOC 2009 EU: #3
MSI MOA 2009 EU: #3
MSI MOA 2009 WW: #1
MSI MOA 2010 EU: #1
MSI MOA 2010 WW: #1
MSI MOA 2011 EU: #4
** and some screw-ups i don't wanna mention
That was what I wanted to do on cebit after remounting for the 4th time but christian from asus hold me back
when I was on the first run on thursday with stuwi we cooled the card down to ~-100 and let it run GT 3 and GT4. then we went down to ~-150°C and tested GT3/GT4 another time. Then we wanted to go full fire - 1625 on the core and full pot...GT1 passed, GT2 passed, GT3...middle.....
....CRACK!!!!
...reboot, 1200 ok, 1300 fail...
...and it happened another 3 or 4 times we got that crack not in idle but under load. I had the feeling that ultra-hot load on the one side and ultra-cold on the other side just couldn't work together well
At some point I gave up and wanted to throw everything in the corner as that problem really cranked me up ^^ I have one 580 CU II at home and one sended to rma today - before making them cold again I need to figure out more about this issue...
Last edited by SoF; 03-21-2011 at 01:34 PM.
| '12 IvyBridge - "ticks different"... | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round I by SoF | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round II by angoholic & stummerwinter
| '11 The SandyBridge madness... | AwardFabrik / Team LDK OC-Season 2011/2012 Opening Event
| '10 Gulftown LaunchDay OC round up @ASUS RIIE | 3DM05 2x GPU WR LIVE @Cebit 2010 @ASUS MIIIE | SandyBridge arrived @ASUS P8P67
| '09 Foxconn Avenger | E8600 | Foxconn A79A-S | Phenom II 940 BE | LaunchDay Phenom II OC round up
| '08 7.438s 1m LN2 | AMD 1m WR LN2 | 2nd AOCM | Phenom II teasing
| '07 100% E2140 | 106.5% E2160 | 100% E4500 | 103% E4400 | 5508 MHZ E6850 | 7250 MHZ P4 641 126.5% by SoF and AwardFabrik Crew all on Gigabyte DS3P c? and LN2...
| '06 3800+ X2 Manchester 0531TPEW noHS 3201MHZ c? | 3200+ Venice noHS 3279MHZ c? | Opteron 148 0536CABYE 3405MHZ c? all on Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI compressorcooled
| '05 3500+[NC], 3000+[W], 2x 3200+[W], 3500+[NC], 3200+[V] 0516GPDW
Originally Posted by saaya
We have solution for thermal issues:
Indium foil does not resist heat at all. It is soft enough and does not care about cold.
We have tested it many times with AMD Phenoms in the past, so it is not a new thing for us.
In this form 1kg of indium would cost 100 000€, but luckily you can use it multiple times.
My card can run Unigine heaven around 1420MHz, so let's see does indium help anything.
I hope to test it on upcoming weekend.
E: forgot. Sick score in 3dm11 Hipro5!
You are as good as your samples are!
Hehe..don't know about ancient or secret We used it first time in 2009, but because it is very expensive I have not been thinking of it.
I just like to try it and see how it does. At least there is nothing to clean after test session.
You are as good as your samples are!
If I remember correctly, macci used that a few years back. Mike had some $150 thermal grease @ GOOC last time, he swore by it.
1st: perfect print of the pot - good mounting!
2nd: good info
3rd: Indium foil? Doesn't sound common to me - any more info about these things? I just know "liquid metal paste" some time ago in germany, but is it the same?
| '12 IvyBridge - "ticks different"... | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round I by SoF | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round II by angoholic & stummerwinter
| '11 The SandyBridge madness... | AwardFabrik / Team LDK OC-Season 2011/2012 Opening Event
| '10 Gulftown LaunchDay OC round up @ASUS RIIE | 3DM05 2x GPU WR LIVE @Cebit 2010 @ASUS MIIIE | SandyBridge arrived @ASUS P8P67
| '09 Foxconn Avenger | E8600 | Foxconn A79A-S | Phenom II 940 BE | LaunchDay Phenom II OC round up
| '08 7.438s 1m LN2 | AMD 1m WR LN2 | 2nd AOCM | Phenom II teasing
| '07 100% E2140 | 106.5% E2160 | 100% E4500 | 103% E4400 | 5508 MHZ E6850 | 7250 MHZ P4 641 126.5% by SoF and AwardFabrik Crew all on Gigabyte DS3P c? and LN2...
| '06 3800+ X2 Manchester 0531TPEW noHS 3201MHZ c? | 3200+ Venice noHS 3279MHZ c? | Opteron 148 0536CABYE 3405MHZ c? all on Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI compressorcooled
| '05 3500+[NC], 3000+[W], 2x 3200+[W], 3500+[NC], 3200+[V] 0516GPDW
Originally Posted by saaya
Indium: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indium
Very rare soft metal. The foil is 99,9% pure indium, so there is practically no heat recistance.
Thermal conductivity comparison:
OCZ Freeze = 3.8 W/m-K
Titan Nano = 4.5 W/m-K
Indium metal (+foil) = 81.8 W/m-K
Liquid metal pastes are Gallium + Indium combination, where gallium is the main part. Gallium is slightly toxic and it does expand when it is getting colder. So it can not be used with ln2.
You are as good as your samples are!
We have a lot o issues with our card also. We have to heat the pcb with two heat guns all the time. At the end we have manage to run 1420/1330 for 3DMark11 and take world record with 10280 points.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Titan nano but my opinion is that we have to use a pot with some distance from PCB...
Last edited by aristidis; 03-22-2011 at 02:50 AM.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Here..
http://www.cmr-direct.com/product_in...roducts_id=683
or..
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/INDIUM-99-99-F...item35af0d34b0
They were the first hits I had just with Google
| '12 IvyBridge - "ticks different"... | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round I by SoF | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round II by angoholic & stummerwinter
| '11 The SandyBridge madness... | AwardFabrik / Team LDK OC-Season 2011/2012 Opening Event
| '10 Gulftown LaunchDay OC round up @ASUS RIIE | 3DM05 2x GPU WR LIVE @Cebit 2010 @ASUS MIIIE | SandyBridge arrived @ASUS P8P67
| '09 Foxconn Avenger | E8600 | Foxconn A79A-S | Phenom II 940 BE | LaunchDay Phenom II OC round up
| '08 7.438s 1m LN2 | AMD 1m WR LN2 | 2nd AOCM | Phenom II teasing
| '07 100% E2140 | 106.5% E2160 | 100% E4500 | 103% E4400 | 5508 MHZ E6850 | 7250 MHZ P4 641 126.5% by SoF and AwardFabrik Crew all on Gigabyte DS3P c? and LN2...
| '06 3800+ X2 Manchester 0531TPEW noHS 3201MHZ c? | 3200+ Venice noHS 3279MHZ c? | Opteron 148 0536CABYE 3405MHZ c? all on Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI compressorcooled
| '05 3500+[NC], 3000+[W], 2x 3200+[W], 3500+[NC], 3200+[V] 0516GPDW
Originally Posted by saaya
Just check that you have good contact. It is not as easy with indium as it is with thermal pastes.
You are as good as your samples are!
The proper way to use indium would be to heat the copper to the melting point of the indium and solder it and the pot to the IHS of the card........
Using in the solid form that you are using it in won't work any mircacles.
Also the conductivity charts you are showing are at like normal temps.
Indium actually sucks conductivity wise at like say -192........
Also last but not least the point of using it is direct to core and not to an IHS which then has paste........the whole point is to eliminate all the thermal barriers.....in a perfect world you would solder the POT direct to the die of the GPU.
First to manage soldering the pot direct to die of GPU without killing it gets a cookie.
Last edited by chew*; 03-22-2011 at 03:33 PM.
heatware chew*
I've got no strings to hold me down.
To make me fret, or make me frown.
I had strings but now I'm free.
There are no strings on me
Double post but that crack you guys are hearing is the bond snapping from the paste you guys are using.
The heat generated by GPU and the cold generated and the large shift in temp delta is enough to snap the bond.
I know this becasue i bench at -192 90% of the time, Been through various pastes to find pastes that actually don't freeze which in turn can not crack the bond....
Sounds like some serious heat dump.......takes a 6 core thuban in wprime at 6.3+ to create those circumstances.....
after the crack any loading of the gpu sounds like something boiling under pot doesn't it
You can verify this, just unbolt pot cold real quick after the crack, don't let it defrost, it will pop right off and not be "stuck" to gpu anymore.
Last edited by chew*; 03-22-2011 at 05:52 PM.
heatware chew*
I've got no strings to hold me down.
To make me fret, or make me frown.
I had strings but now I'm free.
There are no strings on me
Feel sad with mine GTX 580 CUII
I modded one and reached 1400/1210 Mhz 3DM06 with just 10 LN2 liters in the first day...but the card was not mine (i modded to a friend)...
Yesterday i full mod mine...
VID mod 0.4 Volts
VRAM, VGPU and VPLL working fine (each mod with a switcher on/off)...
CBB Mod (joined the 3 points)
OCP Overall and OCP per Phase
Did try:
VID 0,4 + Smart Doctor (1,0 to 1.18V)
VID 0,4 + VMod (same)
But no one settings works fine...
Only way worked was only VID 0,4 + stock Voltage - about 1220 Mhz vantage (sucks...worst than the old GTX 580 reference)
Ram...the worst..
Did try all voltages - 1.74 to 2.1V and can t reach more than 1200 Mhz
PLL did try on (trimpot - 1.2 ... 1.35V)...and off stock Voltage... no change
Lots of issues...the card can run ok and no coldbug...but i can't add GPU voltage (Smartdoctor or trimpot) that the system crashes at the middle of benchmark...
I don t know why the card is not good....but can t understand the videocard can pass 1.4V (down to 1.35 in the middle of benchmark) 1220 / 1200 Mhz...but appear to be the limit of the card...
The Videocard can't go more than 1220 mhz with any voltage...
I think MINE VGA sucks...no lucky with this one
something can't be right there - EVERY CUII can do 1400+ easy, there must be a mod maybe not sitting correctly or whatever but it is impossible that a CUII can't pass 1300...(except me beeing the one benching it with a multi-rail PSU during cebit )
What PSU are you using??
| '12 IvyBridge - "ticks different"... | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round I by SoF | AwardFabrik IvyBridge round II by angoholic & stummerwinter
| '11 The SandyBridge madness... | AwardFabrik / Team LDK OC-Season 2011/2012 Opening Event
| '10 Gulftown LaunchDay OC round up @ASUS RIIE | 3DM05 2x GPU WR LIVE @Cebit 2010 @ASUS MIIIE | SandyBridge arrived @ASUS P8P67
| '09 Foxconn Avenger | E8600 | Foxconn A79A-S | Phenom II 940 BE | LaunchDay Phenom II OC round up
| '08 7.438s 1m LN2 | AMD 1m WR LN2 | 2nd AOCM | Phenom II teasing
| '07 100% E2140 | 106.5% E2160 | 100% E4500 | 103% E4400 | 5508 MHZ E6850 | 7250 MHZ P4 641 126.5% by SoF and AwardFabrik Crew all on Gigabyte DS3P c? and LN2...
| '06 3800+ X2 Manchester 0531TPEW noHS 3201MHZ c? | 3200+ Venice noHS 3279MHZ c? | Opteron 148 0536CABYE 3405MHZ c? all on Gigabyte K8NXP-SLI compressorcooled
| '05 3500+[NC], 3000+[W], 2x 3200+[W], 3500+[NC], 3200+[V] 0516GPDW
Originally Posted by saaya
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