Asus Xonar DX vs Creative X-Fi

[Frag Maniac]

Then you guys must have older TV's. My almost two year old Toshiba has PCM out (via 1/8" mono jack to COAX RCA) that passes through any broad cast audio signal it receives. It also has Analog RCA Left and Right out. These signals are normally limited to Dolby Digital that my receiver can then process. Then if it can't, any receiver less than 20 years old can up-mix RCA Left and Right or matrix surround going all the way back to Pro Logic 1 from the late 80's Yes, Sound Card up-mixing is almost a useless feature, yeah, LOL!

Hard to tell which direction you're arguing the TV audio out connectors, but the most modern models I've looked at in the brands I've narrowed my choices down to (for input lag and PQ reasons) have only optical audio outputs, no RCA, no analog audio out of any kind. It's my 5 yr old CRT Samsung HDTV that has RCA audio outputs via PCM that I can at least hear TV broadcasts in 2.1 via a 3.5mm cable to the line in of my sound card.

The modern TVs lacking analog PCM outputs and lack of optical in to 5.1 upmixing in sound cards is forcing consumers whom don't already have HT gear to buy HT receivers or put up with TV speakers. I'm talking well known top selling brands of TVs too, like Panasonic and LG.

[Donnie27]

I'm not convinced that the CPU does the processing. I just checked using a 5.1 stream and a 2.1 stream converted to 5.1 and CPU utilization excluding VLC Player didn't exceed 3%. I guess I'm going to do a little more homework and get back to this thread with the info I find....

I guess I should reiterate that that I don't watch anything using my TV tuner. Everything is sourced from my computer. Be it an AVI, game, Blu-Ray disk, DVD, etc.

Check out this review? Not perfect pretty good info.

http://penstarsys.com/reviews/sound/...rer/index.html

Then DanielK proved DDL and DTS are software based. Just as Creative sold its DDL/DTS feature on the early X-Fi's for $4.65 as an add on feature

[Donnie27]

Hard to tell which direction you're arguing the TV audio out connectors, but the most modern models I've looked at in the brands I've narrowed my choices down to (for input lag and PQ reasons) have only optical audio outputs, no RCA, no analog audio out of any kind. It's my 5 yr old CRT Samsung HDTV that has RCA audio outputs via PCM that I can at least hear TV broadcasts in 2.1 via a 3.5mm cable to the line in of my sound card.

The modern TVs lacking analog PCM outputs and lack of optical in to 5.1 upmixing in sound cards is forcing consumers whom don't already have HT gear to buy HT receivers or put up with TV speakers. I'm talking well known top selling brands of TVs too, like Panasonic and LG.

Depends on the TV. My old Hitachi and Akai Projection TV's had Stereo Left and Right RCA Out and Toslink Out as well.

I don't know what you mean by lag, but I have absolutely Zero Syncing Issues with my Blue Rays in the Set Top or the one in the computer. That goes for any Video source. Simple and plain, up mixing audio is moot!

[lilmanmgf]

I picked up an Essence STX and I love it. The built in amp works great with my headphones. Keep in mind that this particular card is really only geared towards headphones.

[Frag Maniac]

I don't know what you mean by lag, but I have absolutely Zero Syncing Issues with my Blue Rays in the Set Top or the one in the computer. That goes for any Video source. Simple and plain, up mixing audio is moot!

Virtually ALL non CRT TVs have some amount of input lag. Gamers are concerned about it because it's basically the amount of time in ms that it takes your input on your controller (KB, gamepad, wheel, etc) to appear on screen.

Input lag can vary quite a bit from as low as 10ms or less upwards to around 100ms. Input lag can be very noticeable if playing fast paced shooters (esp online) or racing games.

The problem is input lag is fairly complicated to test for precisely and accurately and most manufacturers don't want to divulge such info. There are some whom have the gear and do very diligent testing though.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

[AlleyViper]

Yup, they sent me a new one finally. The ram works great, thanks! I hope things are going better for you.

I wouldnt mind the Xonar except for the power connector. I would have to add another cable to my PS (modular) just for the sound card.

My DX came with an adapter from floppy to 4 pin molex. Should make things easier to route cables.

I thought the reason for the external power was supplying cleaner power. I'd be surprised if a pci-e slot couldn't power both the cmi and brigde chips.

[RejZoR]

Converting from 5.1 to 2.1 is not really CPU intensive task. The streams are just joined into stereo.. WHat's more intensive is audio resampling from 441kHz to 192kHz with really high interpolation precision where CPU might start hitting 100% (check Acuity FX plugin for Winamp). This was on Atom N270 CPU. Regular post processing without resampling is usually below 5% on same CPU...

[Donnie27]

Virtually ALL non CRT TVs have some amount of input lag. Gamers are concerned about it because it's basically the amount of time in ms that it takes your input on your controller (KB, gamepad, wheel, etc) to appear on screen.

Input lag can vary quite a bit from as low as 10ms or less upwards to around 100ms. Input lag can be very noticeable if playing fast paced shooters (esp online) or racing games.

The problem is input lag is fairly complicated to test for precisely and accurately and most manufacturers don't want to divulge such info. There are some whom have the gear and do very diligent testing though.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1131464

Again. I said I don't have any Syncing Issues watching movies.

I have absolutely Zero Syncing Issues that doesn't mean I get 0ms lag, it means that the lag is hard to see or feel.


""Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.""

Not extremely sensitive and an example would be 75Hz on a CRT that gives some of my friends headaches doesn't bother me at all. Plus I rarely game on my HTPC that I was talking about. Not much fun trying to play games with a GT-240 meant for movies and etc......anyway.

Yes, lag on my main Rig while using an LCD sucks for online gaming but off line single player seems to work with very little Lag at all. Before I added the 2 LCD, I used a 19" Sony Trinitron with an 85Hz refresh rate that worked a whole lot better.

[Jodiuh]

i would hunt down a forte, not sure were to get one though.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...-010-_-Product

I've got one going up for sale momentarily...

But I'd go DX w/ the choices listed in the original post.

[Frag Maniac]

Again. I said I don't have any Syncing Issues watching movies.

I have absolutely Zero Syncing Issues that doesn't mean I get 0ms lag, it means that the lag is hard to see or feel.


""Detectable lag only for remarkably sensitive people.""

Not extremely sensitive and an example would be 75Hz on a CRT that gives some of my friends headaches doesn't bother me at all. Plus I rarely game on my HTPC that I was talking about. Not much fun trying to play games with a GT-240 meant for movies and etc......anyway.

Yes, lag on my main Rig while using an LCD sucks for online gaming but off line single player seems to work with very little Lag at all. Before I added the 2 LCD, I used a 19" Sony Trinitron with an 85Hz refresh rate that worked a whole lot better.

Where did I once mention mere movie watching? Most know input lag (controller input to onscreen response) refers to a type of lag you get in gaming. THAT type of lag, which ALL non CRTs have to some degree, CAN be very noticeable depending on the set and how much it has. The modern video processors in todays TVs with this 3rd, 4th gen motion processing and tons of other processing can add lag. Even the Game Mode on a lot of sets doesn't completely account for it. Then there's panel types, some which lag more than others.

Honestly, I think you need to peruse through that link to the AVS forum input lag thread I posted above and study up on just how much input lag some of the modern sets are displaying before you can objectively comment on it. It has nothing to do with mere movie watching. The trend has gotten worse as far as input lag goes. Even Panasonic sets have higher input lag than they used to. LG now leads the industry in low input lag, but IMO their worse IQ isn't worth it.

[Donnie27]

Where did I once mention mere movie watching? Most know input lag (controller input to onscreen response) refers to a type of lag you get in gaming. THAT type of lag, which ALL non CRTs have to some degree, CAN be very noticeable depending on the set and how much it has. The modern video processors in todays TVs with this 3rd, 4th gen motion processing and tons of other processing can add lag. Even the Game Mode on a lot of sets doesn't completely account for it. Then there's panel types, some which lag more than others.

Honestly, I think you need to peruse through that link to the AVS forum input lag thread I posted above and study up on just how much input lag some of the modern sets are displaying before you can objectively comment on it. It has nothing to do with mere movie watching. The trend has gotten worse as far as input lag goes. Even Panasonic sets have higher input lag than they used to. LG now leads the industry in low input lag, but IMO their worse IQ isn't worth it.

Honestly, IMHO many (not all) at AVS are Full Of S#it. I read that very info before you linked to it. On to the other thing. First I doubt anyone can hear the difference between 109 and 116db fr when the average Adult human ear is limited to nothing close to that. Like an adult talking about hearing above 20Khz, sure you can sense and or feel sound in the extremes but anything else is limited. I'm sure a 20kHz Dog Whistle hurts your ears uh?

The PCI-E bridge chip does cause delay, sound data having to travel back and forth to the CPU and etc..... causes delay. That has little to nothing to with Input delay LOL! Creative's is Native and it is Hardware (Localized processing near the DAC and ADC), meaning lower latency right from the start. Auzentech kicks the crap out of all but the Top Asus Card for Games and Music. Creative, Asus and Auzentech suck and are looking for Suckers' money take LOL!

Drivers and Bugs, sure!

http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?...Language=en-us

Now, if you'd like to start another thread about Displays, please do so?

[Frag Maniac]

Oh God I give up. Honestly Donnie I don't know WHY you go on and on like everyone's a moron and you're a genius, esp when you don't even seem to know what input lag in displays is! My GOD it's common knowledge in the gaming community that various displays exhibit quite a range of input lag in games and there's tons of studies that have been done on it not just by consumer tech heads (many of whom are FAR more knowledgeable than you admit in your smug, conceited attitude, AND have documented proof of such tests), but sites that review displays as well.

You go off on these tangents talking about movies, db and Pci-Ex chips, which has ZERO to do with input lag in displays, and it makes it all the more obvious it's in fact YOU whom is "Full of Sh*t" and knows nothing of the subject.

LOL, whatever, go on and on deluding yourself into believing you're an "expert" at everything electronic. Hell, you even have some here believing it sometimes. The rest of us will just ignore your obvious naive prattling and suffice to talk to those whom actually know what they're talking about.

I can see why you don't hang out on the Displays forum here or tech forums such as AVS. They'd tear you a new one taking such BS. LOL

[Donnie27]

Oh God I give up. Honestly Donnie I don't know WHY you go on and on like everyone's a moron and you're a genius, esp when you don't even seem to know what input lag in displays is! My GOD it's common knowledge in the gaming community that various displays exhibit quite a range of input lag in games and there's tons of studies that have been done on it not just by consumer tech heads (many of whom are FAR more knowledgeable than you admit in your smug, conceited attitude, AND have documented proof of such tests), but sites that review displays as well.

You go off on these tangents talking about movies, db and Pci-Ex chips, which has ZERO to do with input lag in displays, and it makes it all the more obvious it's in fact YOU whom is "Full of Sh*t" and knows nothing of the subject.

LOL, whatever, go on and on deluding yourself into believing you're an "expert" at everything electronic. Hell, you even have some here believing it sometimes. The rest of us will just ignore your obvious naive prattling and suffice to talk to those whom actually know what they're talking about.

I can see why you don't hang out on the Displays forum here or tech forums such as AVS. They'd tear you a new one taking such BS. LOL

I ask you again, politely, if you want to talk Displays, please do so in the appropriate forum with another thread. No, your very small amateurish inappropriate insults doesn't bother me at all

[Ket]

Any Xonar is easily better than some Creative POS. Its incredible how often I still link to this review.

[Jodiuh]

That's my card!

[Donnie27]

Any Xonar is easily better than some Creative POS. Its incredible how often I still link to this review.

Yup and the Xonar POS ain't better than the Prelude LOL!

[Erklat]

Yup and the Xonar POS ain't better than the Prelude LOL!

Khm, only in games, khm, khm, fanboyism, khm, it's overpowering, khm....... *static followed by silence*

[Donnie27]

Khm, only in games, khm, khm, fanboyism, khm, it's overpowering, khm....... *static followed by silence*

Please note the "".

[Erklat]

Please note the "".

Glad you made that clear too

[Donnie27]

Glad you made that clear too

I hope so I wasn't the fanboy here, I don't love Asus and or Auzentech and hate Creative, I think they're all large faceless companies who; wouldn't piss on us to put us out if we were on fire. That goes for Intel, AMD, nVidia and all the rest as well. Some posters here are starting to sig such things.

[Jodiuh]

Well...I'm getting a bit o high noise floor on the DX that didn't happen on the Forte...not sure what it could be.

[BababooeyHTJ]

I just picked up a Xonar DX and so far it seems like a nice upgrade from my Xtremegamer. I'm going to have to play around with it some more but so far I'm pretty pleased with this card.

I may give the unified drivers a shot but I haven't had any issues with the official drivers yet.

[JoeBar]

I may give the unified drivers a shot but I haven't had any issues with the official drivers yet.

Don't think about it, give them a try...