HELP!! Someone is licensing my photos.

[lkiller123]

About a month ago someone came across my works and wanted to use two of my photos as an "internal web application."

He says that the application will not be of any commercial use and will only be shown to selected clients. Since I've applied an attributions license (anyone can use it; as long as they are not of commercial use) to all my photos, I simply gave him permission to use those two photographs.

Now the thing is, he tells me that the web application will be changed to Commercial Use. He is asking to purchase a license for "Commercial use for 1 year and web only."

I certainly didn't expect making money from my photographs, as I've never done these things before. How much should I charge this guy?

Here are the two images that he was talking about:

www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/5236424710/
www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/4796269343/

[josh1980]

Honestly, I would ask more questions about the commercial software. If you said $5000 you might be happy. But what if it was going into the next version of Windows? They sell millions of copies. Now what if you had said you want 1 cent for each copy of the software sold. You could make alot more money.

I'm just saying you shouldn't necessarily consider a flat number. Example...Jack Nickelson wanted a percent of the profits from the 1980s movie "Batman" instead of a flat fee. The studios laughed at him all the way to the bank...until the movie made BIG BIG money. It was the single smartest decision of any actor in recent history. I've heard he made more money from that movie than any actor in any other movie to date.

[Holst]

I think Josh is getting ahead of himself.

Have a look at istock or other commercial photo places and work out what your image would cost from there.. probably not a huge amount of money

If your image is very unusual then you may be able to charge more.

The guy writing the software has been reasonable with you by asking for permission and then asking to buy a licence, dont come back to him with a ridiculous amount of money or he will probably just use somebody else's images.

[lkiller123]

Here are the two images that he was talking about:

www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/5236424710/
www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/4796269343/


I've taken both of you guys' advices into consideration. Right now I am asking for more details regarding on the publication numbers as well as other fine details on the application he is developing.

I am looking forward to get about $150 for both of those images, is that a bit low?

[dengyong]

Here are the two images that he was talking about:

www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/5236424710/
www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/4796269343/


I've taken both of you guys' advices into consideration. Right now I am asking for more details regarding on the publication numbers as well as other fine details on the application he is developing.

I am looking forward to get about $150 for both of those images, is that a bit low?

It's a fair price and may open new doors for you. Nice work.

[Planet]

It would depend on the estimated sales of the product and how important the images are in the product.

[tiro_uspsss]

the thread title lead me to believe that someone was 'pirating' ur pics!

[lkiller123]

^

Well, the guy still haven't replied to my message yet. I guess all the "excitement" comes down to nothing.

[Lestat]

killer, many times those are just scams, total bullsh|t people just trying to screw you around.

i would start doing like Marin had to do and start putting watermarks in every single picture you post.

[josh1980]

Isn't flickr one of those sites where all pictures posted become property of flickr and they can do as they please with your picture? Up to and including selling the rights to use your picture?

I remember a few years back some young lady had a picture on one of the picture distribution sites and it was chopped and used around the world without her permission. She wasn't too thrilled about her face being at bus stops, billboards, and websites everywhere. Additionally she didn't get a single dollar, but the website that sold the picture got $50k or something.

Edit: Obviously you still have the original picture, but flickr has the right to do what they want with the copy you upload...

[lkiller123]

Isn't flickr one of those sites where all pictures posted become property of flickr and they can do as they please with your picture? Up to and including selling the rights to use your picture?

Edit: Obviously you still have the original picture, but flickr has the right to do what they want with the copy you upload...

Well, I didn't read their "terms and conditions," so I am not really familiar with how they treat the photographs.

However, by default they set your photographs to "all right reserved." Anything they do that violates the copyright law, I guess you can sue them for that matter.

[lkiller123]

Another guy came up for this photo:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/lkiller123/5314498380/

He wanted a digital file of it and claims that he would "print it, frame it, and hang it around his house."

How should the pricing go for this one?

[shazza]

No idea on pricing, but assume you're also checking with some of the photography forums, as they will have both professionals and serious amateurs who sell their work.

This is all your fault - if you didn't take such stunning photos, you wouldn't have this problem

[1ke]

Charge him what you think the photos are worth. Look around online to see what other people are paying. (I'd say about 100-200$ a picture is fair)

[lkiller123]

Haha Shazza, thanks for the kind words.

1ke, I am not really sure how much the photo is worth.

Since he is purchasing for his personal use, am I also selling him the license of the photo? Does that mean that he also has the rights to use my photos for something else?
Are there any documents that are needed for the sale?

[1ke]

When they buy the license, the photo is no longer yours, just like a car or a house (Lol, except the bank ends up owning those). You need to make a bill of sale, which each of you will have a copy of. Typically this needs signatures but electronic signatures will do for this purpose. Here is a good example of one (for a car but you get the idea). All these bills of sale are there for is to CYA in case something terrible goes wrong, but this is a plain old transaction. The license to own a photo should be around $250 depending on type, purpose, and who is using it, or 2-3 times a copyrighted sale price on the photo is worth, whichever seems reasonable. You aren't a business, so you can make your own rules. Just remember that he is buying your car (figuratively) so you want to get the most out of the deal.

[lkiller123]

Loved your comparison, it helped a lot in clarifying.

One more thing:
If I just sell him the digital copy, how do I make sure that he won't use it for other purposes? In this case, he claimed that he will be using it for personal use, how do I make sure that he won't simply give it to a magazine?

[RADCOM]

Ikiller123 I really love those photos too how much for a personal edition to a really poor public service worker lol Price is whatever you are happy with I think that $150 is about right but try asking for double that and haggle down let me ssee if I can see what other shots like that are selling for. You are a very talented photographer. My neighbour sells pics for commercial holiday brochure use etc try looking at his prices as your pics are just as professional. www.travelshots.com

[1ke]

Include it in the bill of sale. There is a 4 corners rule to contracts (meaning that a judge only cares about what is contained in the 4 corners of a the contract page). If he signs it then he is obligated to follow it.

[lkiller123]

Thanks guys. I just made him a offer and I've decided to give him difference prices according to the size of the digital file.

RADCOM - I will give you a XS discount if you want one.

1ke - Thanks for the advice. I am planning on using this bill of sale: http://art-support.com/pdf/billsale.pdf. Good enough?

[tiro_uspsss]

hey lkiller123, mind if I ask a bit of a thread-jacking question?

[lkiller123]

Lol, I don't care.

[tiro_uspsss]

thank u muchly!

how do u guys make sure no one 'copies' your pics?
what measures do u take to ensure copy-right?

I ask cause in a month or so I'm going to have my own web site & want to put pics on it, but I dont want someone else using them / claiming them as their own.. I remember years ago coming across a site that u could not save the image, not even use 'prnt scrn' to get the pic.. that kinda interests me

[prava]

When they buy the license, the photo is no longer yours, just like a car or a house (Lol, except the bank ends up owning those). You need to make a bill of sale, which each of you will have a copy of. Typically this needs signatures but electronic signatures will do for this purpose. Here is a good example of one (for a car but you get the idea). All these bills of sale are there for is to CYA in case something terrible goes wrong, but this is a plain old transaction. The license to own a photo should be around $250 depending on type, purpose, and who is using it, or 2-3 times a copyrighted sale price on the photo is worth, whichever seems reasonable. You aren't a business, so you can make your own rules. Just remember that he is buying your car (figuratively) so you want to get the most out of the deal.

If you just sell a license is not like a car, my friend. The author (the op, in this case) won't lose the picture, he will just "allow" somebody else to have the digital file and, thus, make private use of it.

$250 sounds like a ton, to me. Its not in the first case because you are allowing somebody to use your work as profit...but for personal use I would never demand more than 1/10th of that, and probably less.

[lkiller123]

thank u muchly!

how do u guys make sure no one 'copies' your pics?
what measures do u take to ensure copy-right?

I ask cause in a month or so I'm going to have my own web site & want to put pics on it, but I dont want someone else using them / claiming them as their own.. I remember years ago coming across a site that u could not save the image, not even use 'prnt scrn' to get the pic.. that kinda interests me

I don't know how to work the ways around the code. That does sound really interesting.

The best way for me is putting the watermarks on the pics.

I try my best to not disturb the composition of the photo, but sometimes people can really find ways to get your photos. Just don't put those stupid gigantic watermarks across the whole picture, and that would be fine IMO.

Tineye.com is also a nice website to track if people are using your pictures.